What makes a fighting style a MMA style

silat liam

On a recent thread a person took offence to me posting onto a MMA thread, so I was trying to find out what makes an art form a MMA. What makes someone qualified or able to voice an opinion on it. In the style of Combat I trained in, a system has to full fill 11 core fighting principles otherwise it doesnt fit into the banner of Silat. So with lots of MMA guys here can you defined what make a style of fighting an MMA as they so many different view on this. My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the following

1) 3 Ranges of combat - Stand up / clinch / groundwork (In cimande system it is made up of 4 seperate fighting styles Blakok which is a stand up kicking / punching / striking style. Monjet which is a elbow, knee, standup locking / trapping style. Harimau which is a groundfighting style and Ular which is a weapon style. A student of Cimande would have to spend time learning each range and be successfully in blending all 4 aspects together and being able to use them effectively. Would this be considered a MMA concepts using different aspects of different styles to develop oneself

2) Do you have to take part in Ring Fighting to be considered an MMA student or style. I thought this was a personal choice, but some think you do have to take part, what are your views? On this side Cimande Silat doesnt take part in ring fighting, in silat they call it "Playing" but students are encouage to spar

3) You pressure test your MMA to make sure it works. Is there anyways you can pressure test outside of the ring. In cimande, students have to defend against someone coming at them throwing full contact punches and Kicks, also against mutiple attackers and an attacker using blades / sticks. Would this come under the banner pressure testing of MMA.

4)Most MMA guys come from a Traditional background eg Gracie ju jitsu or maybe Thai, can you come from another Traditional background? Or is just specfic Martial Arts backgrounds you are allowed.

5)Is MMA a concept / way of thinking ?

Tim_Murphy

So with lots of MMA guys here can you defined what make a style of fighting an MMA as they so many different view on this

You are right, there are many different view. I personally don't think you can call "a style of fighting an MMA", that phrase doesn't make sense to me.

Ultimately MMA can mean whatever you want it to mean. same with terms like traditional.

Would this be considered a MMA concepts using different aspects of different styles to develop oneself

That depends completely on how it is trained IMO.

Most MMA guys come from a Traditional background eg Gracie ju jitsu or maybe Thai, can you come from another Traditional background? Or is just specfic Martial Arts backgrounds you are allowed.

Allowed by who?

A simple question to ask yourself might be: Would my training allow me to step into a ring and fight full rules MMA if all I could change was the intensity of my training and the amount of cardio/conditioning I do?

Millionaire

Tim_Murphy wrote:

A simple question to ask yourself might be: Would my training allow me to step into a ring and fight full rules MMA if all I could change was the intensity of my training and the amount of cardio/conditioning I do?

Excellent question.

and I have asked myself similar recently.

Roper

Tim_Murphy wrote:

A simple question to ask yourself might be: Would my training allow me to step into a ring and fight full rules MMA if all I could change was the intensity of my training and the amount of cardio/conditioning I do?

Hi Liam,

I think this question is the crux of what you're asking. Most people don't train for the ring, I don't right now, but if I was going to I wouldn't change a thing except the frequency of my training and I'd be confident in that.

silat liam

Thanks guys,(Mill, Roper and Tim) that actually is a very good question and answer and very thought pervoking. I really didn't want this thread to turn into a MMA V TMA debate. I would just like to hear other people views on it, and what they feel is MMA.

I have one other question in my earlier days training the words "Cross Training" was promoted all the time. I sometimes see it mention here. Is Cross Training the same as MMA? I have always took it to be the same, but I could well be wrong on this. Maybe other people on the forum might think the same way. If these two are different in what ways ?

Thx

Colm_OReilly

I think Tim hit the nail on the head there. It's very much how you train.

As for Cross Training/MMA, my take would be cross training would be something similar to you and I holding a joint class, where the first have I show some stuff from my style to both our students/athletes, then you show some stuff from Silat. The point being to expose yourself to a new training paradigm and get a feel for another style.

MMA training is specifically training for MMA style competition IMO.

As for competing, I believe everyone should compete at some level at least once. Martial Arts seem to be the only physical activity where this seems to be an issue. Provided you are physically fit enough to train, you should be able to compete at some level, even just once. Be it amateur boxing/kickboxing, thai (I know there are a number of levels in Thai competition to ease yourself into it/build you up) Sub wrestling, or the MMA league.

If you like it, great, it will only increase your hunger for training. If not, well hey, at least you gave it a shot.

Colm

john kavanagh

Tim_Murphy wrote:

A simple question to ask yourself might be: Would my training allow me to step into a ring and fight full rules MMA if all I could change was the intensity of my training and the amount of cardio/conditioning I do?

perfect answer. naming 'styles' is a complete waste of time as they have come to mean so many things to so many different people at this stage. only TRAINING METHODS matter.

its kinda like the question "what is a BJJ Blue belt". there is no 'right' answer but a good one is that they should be able to roll with another BJJ blue belt from anywhere in the world and look like they 'belong' there. they don't neccessarily have to be able to tap every blue belt they meet but they should look like they can move with them.

Tim_Murphy

Is Cross Training the same as MMA?

Not the same thing at all IMO, for reasons Colm just gave. I don't view MMA type training as cross training in the slightest, even though it covers a range of different skill sets.

Roper

I also wouldn't regard cross-training and MMA as being the same. Example from my personal experience:
About a brazilian years ago I was a TKD 2nd degree black belt. I went to try a bit of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for a while. That was cross training. Then I dropped the TKD and began training in whatever was useful in a no-rules or limited rules situation, that was MMA.

There is no one characteristic that makes an MMA style, as JOhn has said it comes down to methods. The reason you keep seeing BJJ, Greco, Thai, Western Boxing on the CVs of the top fighters is because over time, they're remained true to good methods and good types of competition. ie. Full contact, full resistance, knockouts etc.

I also think everyone should compete at least once in their 'career' as long as they're physically able. Not just for the actual 5 or 10 minutes of competition itself, but also for the experience of preparing, which in itself is great IMO. Training hard for an event is a great challenge, and then when you compete, you get to tweak and modify your training on your weaknesses. Its the ultimate refinement process.

Man, I need to get this pesky "life" out of the way and take a fight soon!

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

I also think everyone should compete at least once in their 'career' as long as they're physically able. Not just for the actual 5 or 10 minutes of competition itself, but also for the experience of preparing, which in itself is great IMO. Training hard for an event is a great challenge,

That is so true.

Last time I stepped into the ring, in the 3 months i was training, some real bad personal and business stuff happened me. eveything went wrong for me, it was a real hard time. It would have been easier to head into the nearest pub or early house and stay there. But I chose to keep the 6am runs on dark winter mornings etc... the night I stepped into the ring... I did not win that fight.... I won a better fight...the fight over myself in the months before...and I am a better man for it today!

dlofnep

I hate people coining words and phrases. Mixed martial arts is what the name says it is. It's a mixture of martial arts. So long as it covers striking, clinch and ground games - then I'd consider it MMA.

judomick

silat liam wrote:

On a recent thread a person took offence to me posting onto a MMA thread,

a person ? i have a name!

No offence taken Liam, the op asked about mma traing sports specific i though you were training yourself or others for mma, evidently not

MMA is exactly what it stands for mixed martial arts, But there is a defined arena for competing, ie MMA events, again Tim's Question hits the nail on the head

So would you if you upped your cardio be ready for an MMA bout?

Dragan

judomick wrote:

So would you if you upped your cardio be ready for an MMA bout?

If i might be so bold as to say that the constant back and forth between you two guys is getting rather old. You can always PM each other and give each other sh1t that way if you want.

judomick

Dragan wrote:

If i might be so bold as to say that the constant back and forth between you two guys is getting rather old. You can always PM each other and give each other sh1t that way if you want.

it is gettin very old, but the question is relevant to the thread,

silat liam

Dragan wrote:

If i might be so bold as to say that the constant back and forth between you two guys is getting rather old. You can always PM each other and give each other sh1t that way if you want.

Hi Dragon
No offence Dragon, but you really dont have to read the post, forum. In the past there many a argument that you got involved with back and forth, its just one of the problems in an open forum.

I understand me and Mick have very different views on things and sometimes we can get heated, I will still respect his views and he completely entitle to them. This thread I started was just to find out a few things about the MMA Concept, what it means to different people. Have to say I found the replies very informative, sometimes in the past I made mistakes in what I thought was MMA, I'm sure other people may have learnt something today or become a little bit more clearer. I didnt start the thread to hit out at any one, and mean no offence.

Fair enough Mick, maybe I shouldn't have entered the other thread, but I wasnt meaning to cause offence by posting on it, just to add my two cents worth. Good luck with your training I'm sure you have a great journey in front of you, and you achieved your goals.

Liam

Colm_OReilly

I think it's been a pretty good thread so far. But I do agree with Dragan on the silat liam/judomick back and forths.

Feel free to *attack* points and positions, not each other.

judomick

silat liam wrote:

I understand me and Mick have very different views on things and sometimes we can get heated, I will still respect his views and he completely entitle to them.

Good luck with your training I'm sure you have a great journey in front of you, and you achieved your goals.

Liam

as you are yours Liam

I hope everyone gets what they train for!