99 UTG 1/2 Live cash PLHE

spectre

Is it just me or is this a difficult hand to play from early position in live PLHE cash games? I believe to raise PF here is a mistake as you only end up getting 4+ callers and then being forced to play a big pot OOP in which case you really must hit another 9 to have a safe flop.

What is the optimal play here? Is limp-raising here very bad?

Thoughts appreciated

ianmc38

99-JJ I limp reraise where possible. Otherwise, I'm generally playing for set value.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

99-JJ I limp reraise where possible.

Oh yuck

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

Oh yuck

Believe me when you're playing int he S/E where 26s calls for 50 squids preflop, it's a very nice play.

Obviously re-raising will be dependent on the original raiser and other factors.

Samba

id only limp re-raise with QQ-AA personally, i feel your simply advertising QQ-AA when you do this anyway. im not a fan and you only give your opponents a chance to get away from the hand.

99-JJ im open raising.


you want to get some money into the pot, im making a continuation bet most of the time to try and get this pot now, your table image will be of great benefit to you with these hands.


even if it comes A high, take a stab at it, all those little pots add up very quickly. (this is flop dependant)


i've gone through evenings of not seeing any big hands, winning no big pots and i've come out with 1k+ stacks, from all these little pots you pick up left right & centre.

spectre

Samba wrote:

id only limp re-raise with QQ-AA personally, i feel your simply advertising QQ-AA when you do this anyway. im not a fan and you only give your opponents a chance to get away from the hand.

99-JJ im open raising.


you want to get some money into the pot, im making a continuation bet most of the time to try and get this pot now, your table image will be of great benefit to you with these hands.


even if it comes A high, take a stab at it, all those little pots add up very quickly. (this is flop dependant)


i've gone through evenings of not seeing any big hands, winning no big pots and i've come out with 1k+ stacks, from all these little pots you pick up left right & centre.

You can only raise to 7 UTG. In most live cash tables, 7 get's no respect regardless of position, most players are happy to call 7 with any ace, paint, pair, suited cards, connectors - just about anything. Hence you're likely to get called by half the table.

The flop is 79% likely to bring at least one overcard, by betting out here, with say 4/5 players to act behind you, you are effectively bluffing on most flops. Against 1 or 2 players, I'm happy to do this, not against half the table.

Is my thinking flawed in thinking that at a table like this that 9s should be played only for set value? Dare I say it, is open limping I viable play?

fuzzbox

open limping in full ring games is perfectly fine.

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

open limping in full ring games is perfectly fine.

So we're now resorting to playing one of the best preflop hands for set value?

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

So we're now resorting to playing one of the best preflop hands for set value?

99 oop is not one of the best preflop hands.
Most especially in a loose passive game.

cardshark202

You should always raise in these games. Limping is bad, limp-raising is bleurgh. You might get a load of callers but thats a good thing cos you can hit your nine and get paid in three or four spots.

fuzzbox

cardshark202 wrote:

You should always raise in these games. Limping is bad, limp-raising is bleurgh. You might get a load of callers but thats a good thing cos you can hit your nine and get paid in three or four spots.

you can limp in those games, and hit your 9 and still get fully paid in 3 or 4 spots.

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

open limping in full ring games is perfectly fine.

Maybe its just me but I would raise almost any pp from 77+ from EP, especially in live cash games.

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

99 oop is not one of the best preflop hands.
Most especially in a loose passive game.

Surely it's the 6th best starting hand?

Raising medium pocket pairs from EP is fine but it'll be played for set value when 9 other people call for the value

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

you can limp in those games, and hit your 9 and still get fully paid in 3 or 4 spots.

True. Ok. Limping is fine but raising is better.

cardshark202

ianmc38 wrote:

Surely it's the 6th best starting hand?

Eh no think again.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Surely it's the 6th best starting hand?

You are oop, with a medium pair, and the field to act behind you. Why do you feel the need to escalate the pot?

If somebody reraises you, sometimes you will have to lay your hand down preflop, and you will have lost your chance to spike a set and win a big pot.

fuzzbox

cardshark202 wrote:

True. Ok. Limping is fine but raising is better.

why?

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

why?

These games are a limpers paradise. No-one raises in these games. Raising 'might' thin the field a bit, and we likely have the best hand. Now I don't see a problem with limping if a tight player who likes to limp-re-raise has limped UTG, I am more referring to opening the pot. In this case I will almost always raise.

ianmc38

Do you play TT/JJ the same way?

Raising to 7/9 never thins the field. All 9 will call for the value.

Samba

spectre wrote:

You can only raise to 7 UTG. In most live cash tables, 7 get's no respect regardless of position, most players are happy to call 7 with any ace, paint, pair, suited cards, connectors - just about anything. Hence you're likely to get called by half the table
Yes but by limping the entire table is likely to call you and unless you hit your set, you will ultimately have to fold and give up the pot.

The flop is 79% likely to bring at least one overcard, by betting out here, with say 4/5 players to act behind you, you are effectively bluffing on most flops. Against 1 or 2 players, I'm happy to do this, not against half the table.

Is my thinking flawed in thinking that at a table like this that 9s should be played only for set value? Dare I say it, is open limping I viable play?.

While this play is fine, i feel you are missing out on pots, due to how the hand gets played out. By raising and betting out you take control of the hand and this can be profitable for many reasons. You need to excercise extreme control with these marginal hands.

If you do decide to bet out, have a look around the table, oh so often the callers to be will already be counting their chips. Vital information for where you stand with your pair.

fuzzbox

cardshark202 wrote:

These games are a limpers paradise. No-one raises in these games. Raising 'might' thin the field a bit, and we likely have the best hand. Now I don't see a problem with limping if a tight player who likes to limp-re-raise has limped UTG, I am more referring to opening the pot. In this case I will almost always raise.

I have no particular problem with raising, cos 99 is a fine hand.

Its the oopness, and the calling-stationness of the villains that I dont like. Now Im gonna be oop in a bloated pot, probably with 4-9 way action, and a hand that does not improve very often. Its hard to take pots down on the flop, and everybody is addicted to slowplaying, and Im oop so they can use their magnificient calling tactics against me.

Towards the back, this is a fine hand to raise, especially after some limpers. Making it 15 usually gets some ppl out, sometimes you buy the button, and you exert much more pressure one your opponents, and can control the hand much better.

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

I have no particular problem with raising, cos 99 is a fine hand.

Its the oopness, and the calling-stationness of the villains that I dont like. Now Im gonna be oop in a bloated pot, probably with 4-9 way action, and a hand that does not improve very often. Its hard to take pots down on the flop, and everybody is addicted to slowplaying, and Im oop so they can use their magnificient calling tactics against me.

Towards the back, this is a fine hand to raise, especially after some limpers. Making it 15 usually gets some ppl out, sometimes you buy the button, and you exert much more pressure one your opponents, and can control the hand much better.

I guess it really depends on the table dynamics.