Hardest and Easiest FE1 Exam

smarty

I intend to do some FE1 exams in October. I think I am going to do five.

I am looking for peoples experiences on which are the toughest and easiest of the exams. Any experiences would be appreciated.

Ava

really depends on what subjects suit you. generally equity criminal and contract have the highest pass rate. equity has 90% + pass rate a lot of years. i found constitutional pretty easy. property is good to do the same time as equity. Tort has a reputation for being the toughest, and a lot of people don't like eu as its not terribly interesting.

Our man in Havana

How many must you do? Are there compulsory subjects?

Sangre

They're all compulsory.
Think I'll do the criminal, contract, equity/land, constitutional combo for October

Our man in Havana

Grand, so you can do them over several sittings then?

Sangre

I have no idea but you can split them between October and April of the same 'school' year.
You do need to pass a least four in one round for it to be counted as a valid sitting so you can't sit 3 and then 5.

Our man in Havana

Thanks for the info Sangre. I will probably do the premlin in March next year and get going on the FE1's for October 2007.

Is the premlin exam tough?

Sangre

Have no idea, never looked into because since I've just got my ucd law results I don't have to do it.

mr.twist

u need to sit at least four in your first sitting and pass three(50%) for them to count. After u pass three u can sit them in 1's if u want and once u pass first three u have five years to get the other five. in my opinion constitutional is hardest (which reminds does anyone have sample answers done for constitutional exam - willing to pay for them). the rest are straightforward but some need more study than others - EU, Tort and Land.

Ava

mr. twist, all you need for constitutional is fergus ryans nutshells/elt. maybe get access to griffiths notes for more in depth analysis. constitutional has a pretty bad reputation but personally i found it the easist of the lot!

dats_right

Agree with everything Ava has said regarding the exams.

Smarty, I wish you every success in your future plans, but would add a few words of caution or things to consider.
1) You say that you will be doing the preliminary exam- presumably this means that you do not have a degree. If this is the case, then unless you have family connections or extensive work experience (and an employer willing to train you) than I think that you will find it extremely difficult to get an apprenticeship. Even if you do, you will be at a significant disadvantage vis-a-vis graduates seeking employment post traineeship.
Remember there are approx 1,500+ people sitting the Fe1's every sitting, the vast majority probably 99% are graduates.
2) The FE-1's are generally regarded as being amongst the most formidable examinations around. They will require blood, sweat and tears. Most people require at least 2 sittings (the average being 3-4 though- remember that is 18-24 months), some people I know have sat them 6 or 7 times and still haven't passed them. So there is significant committment required to get them. You need to ask yourself are you really sure that it is worth it?
3) Even if you overcome all the hurdles in your way, tha actual training period is somewhere in the region of 2.5 years (from the date you start ppc1 in Blackhall or now in Cork as well) on sh*t pay.

Anyway, Smarty as I say I wish you all the best, but you should talk to as many people as possible and think about your options very carefully. There are many more financially rewarding careers with less lenghty and complex training periods than that of a solicitor.

ilovelamp2000

smarty wrote:

I intend to do some FE1 exams in October. I think I am going to do five.

I am looking for peoples experiences on which are the toughest and easiest of the exams. Any experiences would be appreciated.

Contract, Criminal and Company are all relatively straightforward and the courses aren't too long either.

I'd definitely recommend those to be three of the five.

Amazotheamazing

They are all easy if you approach them right. The big problem is that in college you are generally expected to know a few areas in deep detail, in the FE's you are expected to know a lot of areas to a very shallow level. That's the biggest problem, how do you decide what is a "shallow level" of knowledge?

Imo, if it's a question of studying respected textbooks and commentators vis a vis nutshells revision notes, then nutshells win every time.

Each exam is 3 hrs, you will do at least 5 and occasionally 6 questions (as in you'll do a 6th bulletpoint answer as a safety valve), over that lenght of time there's only so much to can give to any one answer.

Always attempt 5 questions.

Read the examiners reports.

Remember, in some of the exams you can bring in legislation, don't waste time learning something by rote when you can bring in the source with you, but be familiar with the sources.

smarty

dats_right wrote:

Agree with everything Ava has said regarding the exams.

Smarty, I wish you every success in your future plans, but would add a few words of caution or things to consider.
1) You say that you will be doing the preliminary exam- presumably this means that you do not have a degree. If this is the case, then unless you have family connections or extensive work experience (and an employer willing to train you) than I think that you will find it extremely difficult to get an apprenticeship. Even if you do, you will be at a significant disadvantage vis-a-vis graduates seeking employment post traineeship.
Remember there are approx 1,500+ people sitting the Fe1's every sitting, the vast majority probably 99% are graduates.
2) The FE-1's are generally regarded as being amongst the most formidable examinations around. They will require blood, sweat and tears. Most people require at least 2 sittings (the average being 3-4 though- remember that is 18-24 months), some people I know have sat them 6 or 7 times and still haven't passed them. So there is significant committment required to get them. You need to ask yourself are you really sure that it is worth it?
3) Even if you overcome all the hurdles in your way, tha actual training period is somewhere in the region of 2.5 years (from the date you start ppc1 in Blackhall or now in Cork as well) on sh*t pay.

Anyway, Smarty as I say I wish you all the best, but you should talk to as many people as possible and think about your options very carefully. There are many more financially rewarding careers with less lenghty and complex training periods than that of a solicitor.

Thanks for the advice. I think you may have mixed up something that Bond-007 said, with regard to the prelim exam.

I have a B.Sc. and a M.Sc., and I have been working for 8 years. Law is something that I have an interest in. I don't know if I necessarily want to be a solicitor, but I might just do the exams to further my knowledge. (That probably sounds a bit sad ).

I was considering doing the part time course in the DIT (BA Ord in Legal Studies), but a friend of mine suggested doing the FE1s instead.

From my experience with solicitors, specifically in the area of IP/IT, very few have come from a technical background. Most trained as solicitors, and then moved into the area of IT. The fact that I have a background in IT, could work to my advantage if I decide to train as a solicitor.

Sangre

Is there any benefit of actually trying to do really well in the fe1s? Is it looked on favourably or just seen as wasted time. I'm trying to decide to what level I should be aiming for. I'm thinking of just doing the bare minimum!

snb

Best of luck 'trying to do well'. I don't know ANYONE who has been able to obtain high results in these exams and this includes first in class law grads. I think we do well to get them at all.

As exams go , they are in league of their own and they really to sort out the priorities of those who are in it just for the sake of it and those who really want it. Another post on this forum spoke of how do you get to be a 200 k a year solicitor ? Well, very few do and those that do are slaves to the job I would imagine and , moreso they are obviously the best of the best. I don't think, when I entered into this that money was a large motivator. Stability, howver was . The main thing is an interest. If I am challenged every day, Ill be happy. Thats the motivator for me.

BTW Land , criminal easiest COMPANY BY FAR THE WORST. 70 % failure rate rumoured.

Mortmain

Sangre wrote:

Is there any benefit of actually trying to do really well in the fe1s? Is it looked on favourably or just seen as wasted time. I'm trying to decide to what level I should be aiming for. I'm thinking of just doing the bare minimum!

There are scholarships for the top marks in each subject and also the top overall results - details are on the law society website. With regards the general benefits of good FE1 results, there seems to be a mixed opinion. If you are looking to get into one of the big firms, academic achievements are a definate plus but I have been informed that smaller firms are wary of taking on students with consistent firsts - don't like smartarses apparently. For what it's worth, my opinion is to aim for the best you can, put in the work, I believe that the extra bit of effort is exactly what you need to set you apart from the rest of the herd.

maidhc

Mortmain wrote:

...but I have been informed that smaller firms are wary of taking on students with consistent firsts - don't like smartarses apparently.

That seems sensible, since most work in smaller firms isn't heavy hitting law stuff, but more, shall I say, people orientated.

My experiences is that Criminal is the easiest, and Tort is the hardest.

However none of the blackhalls are intellectually challenging. You just need to learn loads of stuff and spit it out, it is memory test, and little else. Pity I have a crap memory!

Sangre

As each day ticks by it becomes more and more likely I'm just going to scrape by

I think the masters/fe1s at 21 should be enough tbh....if I pass them.

ladylorenzo

Here here...I wish someone had told me all of this before I set out on this pain-stakingly long(and lonely!) road..its all true. Blood sweat and tears but believe me..its all worth it when you see that you've passed them..they're tough and soul destroying at times but not only do they strengthen your mind but they strengthen your character too!Good Luck, LL

dats_right wrote:

Agree with everything Ava has said regarding the exams.

Smarty, I wish you every success in your future plans, but would add a few words of caution or things to consider.
1) You say that you will be doing the preliminary exam- presumably this means that you do not have a degree. If this is the case, then unless you have family connections or extensive work experience (and an employer willing to train you) than I think that you will find it extremely difficult to get an apprenticeship. Even if you do, you will be at a significant disadvantage vis-a-vis graduates seeking employment post traineeship.
Remember there are approx 1,500+ people sitting the Fe1's every sitting, the vast majority probably 99% are graduates.
2) The FE-1's are generally regarded as being amongst the most formidable examinations around. They will require blood, sweat and tears. Most people require at least 2 sittings (the average being 3-4 though- remember that is 18-24 months), some people I know have sat them 6 or 7 times and still haven't passed them. So there is significant committment required to get them. You need to ask yourself are you really sure that it is worth it?
3) Even if you overcome all the hurdles in your way, tha actual training period is somewhere in the region of 2.5 years (from the date you start ppc1 in Blackhall or now in Cork as well) on sh*t pay.

Anyway, Smarty as I say I wish you all the best, but you should talk to as many people as possible and think about your options very carefully. There are many more financially rewarding careers with less lenghty and complex training periods than that of a solicitor.

kronsington

i think it really just depends on the person..

i found company and tort to be fine and got them first time but sat constitutional for the 3rd time in march.. hate that subject.. every subject is manageable if you keep on top of it from the start... try get familiar with recent judgements and read the gazette available on the website.

good luck!

dK1NG

mr.twist wrote:

u need to sit at least four in your first sitting and pass three(50%) for them to count. After u pass three u can sit them in 1's if u want and once u pass first three u have five years to get the other five. in my opinion constitutional is hardest (which reminds does anyone have sample answers done for constitutional exam - willing to pay for them). the rest are straightforward but some need more study than others - EU, Tort and Land.

it all depends on urself - like mr twist i found constitution difficult (study wise, cos it was so broad, and topics ran into each other; the exam itself was real handy! but that was when hall was the examiner, i've heard he's gone now and its much more straightforward!)

EU was tough a few yrs back, i think travers was the examiner; the failure rate was unbelievably high!!!

tort is another tough one,

but they are all manageable!

i found company to be long, as courtney wrote the damn book on this and can ask anything from it, but on the day its one of the easiest subjects.

contract - well, i never liked that, and altho its easy to study, i found the exam to be a bit of a b*tch tbh.

equity and property are handy out - so long as u do them at the same sitting, there is so much overlap betwween the two.

and lastly, my own favourite - criminal law. no bothers at all, but thats my own area of interest, so maybe different for others.


just my 2cents.:)

Amazotheamazing wrote:

They are all easy if you approach them right. The big problem is that in college you are generally expected to know a few areas in deep detail, in the FE's you are expected to know a lot of areas to a very shallow level. That's the biggest problem, how do you decide what is a "shallow level" of knowledge?

Imo, if it's a question of studying respected textbooks and commentators vis a vis nutshells revision notes, then nutshells win every time.

Each exam is 3 hrs, you will do at least 5 and occasionally 6 questions (as in you'll do a 6th bulletpoint answer as a safety valve), over that lenght of time there's only so much to can give to any one answer.

Always attempt 5 questions.

Read the examiners reports.

Remember, in some of the exams you can bring in legislation, don't waste time learning something by rote when you can bring in the source with you, but be familiar with the sources.

i'd agree with the level of detail needed, but i would strongly disagreee with doing a 6th Q - u would be much better, imho, to go back and touch up some of ur ealrier answers if u have time left at the end (which i rarely did.)

Art of Noise

Having done Property today, I have now sat all eight exams. I'd say regarding the difficulty of the subjects, the hardest to easiest is........

1. Tort
2. Company
3. Constitutional
4. Contract
5. Property
6. EU
7. Criminal
8. Equity

legal eagle 1

My experience has been that recruiters are more interested in your undergraduate degree and the result you achieved in that as opposed to your FE1 results. Alot of the recruiters in the top firms also say to leave out your results of your FE1's on your cv and simply state how many you have passed and when!

Jev/N

Art of Noise wrote: »

Having done Property today, I have now sat all eight exams. I'd say regarding the difficulty of the subjects, the hardest to easiest is........

1. Tort
2. Company
3. Constitutional
4. Contract
5. Property
6. EU
7. Criminal
8. Equity

You did todays Property and still thought Company was harder?? (I know it may not have been this years one you sat)

Art of Noise

Jev/N wrote: »

You did todays Property and still thought Company was harder?? (I know it may not have been this years one you sat)

I hate Company with a passion. I sat it last March. I know Property today was very tough but my list was more referring to how i found the stuff you have to learn and revising for the subjects as well as the type of questions that generally come up, not just the particular paper in the subject I sat.

I think all the top 6 I listed are hard anyway with Criminal a step down and Equity comfortably the most straightforward in terms of general effort you have to put in compared to the others.