VW Golf 1.4 smoking engine

mvpr

Hows it going?

I've got a mk IV Golf 1.4 16v with >100k on the clock that smokes all the time (a common problem I'm told). Mechanic tells me i need to replace the piston rings which will be costly (>€1000).

Would i be better off finding a replacement engine, say from a scrappie? How much would i be likely to pay for one?

Anyone had the same problem or have any advice? Would be much appreciated...!

crosstownk

It happens alright - but in my experience it's not 'common'. What colour is the smoke?

mvpr

Thanks for quick reply!

Black/grey... Happens most when freewheeling downhill then begin accelerating again

HungryJoey

Gaskets blown perhaps?

Hj

crosstownk

Grey/blue smoke is indicative of worn rings. Your best bet is to get a compression check done on each cylinder to determine if it is indeed rings that are gone.

When you say 'freewheel' do you mean that you have your foot on the clutch. If you do not have your foot on the clutch and the smoke happens when you press the accelerator again then, to me, it sounds like it may be valve stem oil seals that are causing the problem. Valve seals will be cheaper to replace than rings - but it'll still be a big enough job.

mvpr

Not sure - it was replaced before when the engine went after 50k... The car's been burning oil for the past 2 years and has got progressively worse (as in 1l oil every 400-500 miles).

mvpr

Freewheel without feet on any pedals...

crosstownk

Worn rings & gaskets over that length of time would usually be accompanied by some power loss. I'm guessing its valve stem oil seals that are the problem. Get it checked by someone who knows VWs.

mvpr

Valve seals will be cheaper to replace than rings - but it'll still be a big enough job.

The mechanic who checked the car over did a compression check and came to the piston rings conclusion...

Any advice on what to do?

crosstownk

A compression check simply checks how well the cylinder maintains pressure. If a valve stem oil seal is gone then it is possible that compression is being lost via the stem seals rather than the rings. Your symptoms sound like oils seals - if rings were gone the engine would be smokey practically all of the time.

mvpr

Nice one...

It pretty much is smoking all the time, especially under hard acceleration and after freewheeling.

Thanks for your thoughts - I appreciate it.

If it came to it, any idea where might i pick up a decent second hand engine?

crosstownk

Your better off getting a reconditioned engine rather than pure second hand one - God knows what else may be wrong with a second hand one. Get one with some kind of guarantee.

Sorry, but I've no idea as to who supplies recon VW engines but I'm sure others here will have excellent suggestions.

crosstownk

mvpr wrote:

It pretty much is smoking all the time, especially under hard acceleration and after freewheeling.

Hmmmmm..........all the time - now it sounds more like rings, tbh.

mvpr

Thanks a lot CrosstownK...

mvpr

tbh?

crosstownk

mvpr wrote:

Thanks a lot CrosstownK...

NP, pm me if you need a garage to do it. I use a guy in north Dublin City who is very good and quite reasonable that I would have no hesitation in recommending.

AMurphy

crosstownk wrote:

A compression check simply checks how well the cylinder maintains pressure. If a valve stem oil seal is gone then it is possible that compression is being lost via the stem seals rather than the rings. Your symptoms sound like oils seals - if rings were gone the engine would be smokey practically all of the time.

If a valve stem oil seal is gone then it is possible that compression is being lost via the stem seals rather than the rings.

Impossible, the stem seals are responsible for keeping the oil out, not the cylinder gasses in, that's the valves job.

Anyway, Loosing or buring oil if no appreciable oil leaks, then it must be burnign it. However, faulty rings, valve stem seals, dipstick & oilcap seals and PCV leaks can all result in excessive oil useage.

A compression check alone cannot discriminate between valve seat leaks or ring leaks. To do that you need to do a stationaly leakdown test and observe.

If you run the engine with the oil cap removed, how much blow-past fumes escape? And/or how much spattering do you get out the dipstick tube if you pul the stick out?
If none, then it cannot be the rings.

Worn stem seals do tend to show excessive oil consumption after the engine has been coasting and oil gets sucked down the valve guides.

Excessive PVC venting results in a wet intake.

Valve stem seals CAN be replaced without removing the head or valves, it's a bit tricky, but can be done.

crosstownk

AMurphy wrote:

Impossible, the stem seals are responsible for keeping the oil out, not the cylinder gasses in, that's the valves job.

Very true, I stand corrected. Obviously with the valve fully seated the stem seal is out of the equation.

mvpr

If you run the engine with the oil cap removed, how much blow-past fumes escape? And/or how much spattering do you get out the dipstick tube if you pul the stick out?

I'll check that out in the morning and get back to you... Thanks for the reply

AMurphy

mvpr wrote:

If you run the engine with the oil cap removed, how much blow-past fumes escape? And/or how much spattering do you get out the dipstick tube if you pul the stick out?

I'll check that out in the morning and get back to you... Thanks for the reply

Check at idle and check above idle, maybe 2000RPM. Idle tends to be one of the points when blowby is at its worst on a normally good engine, but still should amount to close to nothing. At higher speeds (and when hot) they tend to seal better, so at higher speeds should register none.

I did have a VW Golf once and it must have broken some rings (after about 240K miles). It blew the dipstick clean out of the tube. It died permanently soon thereafter. No compression.

mvpr

AMurphy wrote:

Impossible, the stem seals are responsible for keeping the oil out, not the cylinder gasses in, that's the valves job.

Anyway, Loosing or buring oil if no appreciable oil leaks, then it must be burnign it. However, faulty rings, valve stem seals, dipstick & oilcap seals and PCV leaks can all result in excessive oil useage.

A compression check alone cannot discriminate between valve seat leaks or ring leaks. To do that you need to do a stationaly leakdown test and observe.

If you run the engine with the oil cap removed, how much blow-past fumes escape? And/or how much spattering do you get out the dipstick tube if you pul the stick out?
If none, then it cannot be the rings.

Worn stem seals do tend to show excessive oil consumption after the engine has been coasting and oil gets sucked down the valve guides.

Excessive PVC venting results in a wet intake.

Valve stem seals CAN be replaced without removing the head or valves, it's a bit tricky, but can be done.

I tried that with the car at 1000 and then 2000 rpm. Couldnt see any fumes coming out after i removed the oil cap and there was no spattering out of the dipstick, though when i revved the car smoke came out the exhaust... I also have a problem with the idle speed (its dropping too low), though not sure if all these problems are connected...

So u reckon it cant be the piston rings if this is the case?

I'll try the same test later after a longer drive and see if there's any difference.

mvpr

I ran that test again after having driven about 20 miles - still no spattering when dip-stick is removed, but a fair amount of fumes coming out when oil filler cap is removed...

galwaytt

you can discern between top and bottom end wear by doing a leak-down test - ask your mechanic about this.........it's not definative, but it can b e greatly indicative......

Antenna

I have heard of an individual with this problem since purchase (about 60k miles when bought) being advised to use 20-50 oil to cut down his oil consumption, but others would disagree with putting 20-50 in a late 90s car!

johncm

i had the same problem with a fiesta and my mechanic told me get some hpx oil from fiat its an oil that stops the smoke. change the oil filter and use it . it works wonders

JHMEG

Antenna and johncm are onto something there. It can happen that the oil used in an engine doesn't "suit", and this is particularly true of lighter, synthetic oils. A mechanic friend swears by Elf 15w40 (ie the good ole thick stuff) -- it'll stay in anything, presumeably because it has the consistency of marmalade.

When did your car last pass th NCT? Burning oil is not a problem unless it fails the NCT because of it.

galwaytt

Actually, now that you mention it, my father used to always use Duckhams 20/50 in his older Audi's, as it seemed to the only oil it did not burn, so you could be on to something there...........

And, my sister-in-law's 3-series developed an appetite, and ticking tappets over the summer..............cause? - out-of-spec oil. Using the recommended one, and all returned to normal.....