Site critique

Flaminio

Hi all,

I've finally worked up the courage to put this site up here for critique. There are several things I'm still unhappy with, I'll list my snag list below.

I'm mainly looking for criticism of site design, coding, layout, etc - the content is the owners business. Actually, saying that, if you have interesting feedback I'll bring it to his attention.

But what I'm really concerned with is the design etc.

The site is abodes.ie.

Ok, go take a look - read the snag list when you come back.

My snag list:

1 - it's table-based; need to go to divs

2 - doctype is incorrect; 99.9% of the markup is good xhtml 1.0 but I need that doctype to make the bottom row stick to the browser foot (yes, feck the tables - see point 1)

3 - sucks in 8x6 or lower - optimal screen res is 1024x7 - I should make it relative (see point 1)

So I'm sure there's plenty to add - fire away, but don't be too hard

Flaminio.

Ph3n0m

Flaminio wrote:

1 - it's table-based; need to go to divs

Why? It doesnt have to be

Flaminio wrote:

2 - doctype is incorrect; 99.9% of the markup is good xhtml 1.0 but I need that doctype to make the bottom row stick to the browser foot (yes, feck the tables - see point 1)

Try this method www.alistapart.com/articles/footers/

3 - sucks in 8x6 or lower - optimal screen res is 1024x7

You can make it work in 8 x6 by using tables

Goodshape

Not a bad looking site by any means.

A bit on the plain side, and there's a few things I would personally spruce up a bit with some CSS, but after a bit of clicking around it seems to have exactly what you need, exactly where you expect it to be. I like that.

A nice, no nonsense, website imo.

Couple of tips -

as Ph3n0m siad, you can make it work in 8x6 using tables. For example : setting table with to 97% (or whatever) instead of 1000px.

Not overly important, but I'd try and get those side links (Spain, Protugal, etc.) to be clickable over the full width of the side panel, rather than just the text itself (if that makes sense to you).

Can be done fairly easy with some CSS ::

a.menu {
width : 150px;
}

..where 'menu' is the class you give to your anchor tag and '150px' is the the full witdh of the menu.

aidan_walsh

Blue on yellow hurts my eyes.

Goodshape

aidan_walsh wrote:

Blue on yellow hurts my eyes.

it's more of a peach, surely

Didn't notice it myself, anyway. Looks warm and beach-like to me, which makes sense considering its homes abroad.

Ph3n0m

aidan_walsh wrote:

Blue on yellow hurts my eyes.

have to agree the colour scheme does hurt my peepers

DonkeyStyle \o/

It's a bit two-tone innit?
I'd add another colour personally.
I think the text could use a tiny bit more contrast against the background... so the introduction of a new colour could work for the text background.

One thing I really do like is how the image in the top left changes depending on what country you're browsing... nice touch... it just feels right.
Though I'd tweak it a little bit so it doesn't break up the top band and the side band... maybe give it a 1px border using the same colour or something.

I'm not a big fan of text-only banners, it makes the site & company seem so generic and off-the-shelf... if the company has any logo of their own I'd suggest using it... if not, look into getting one designed professionaly.

The home page text I think needs to be more well structured... right now it's just a big block of text... I'd think about using more headings, deviding it into logical tidbits, summarizing it, bullet pointing it... I want to get the gyst of it in a few seconds... I want an idea of what's there without actually having to read all of it.

Another thing about the home page that disturbs me is that photo... it seems out of place and lacking relevance... I'd think about replacing it with something more generic, like a patch-work of images or something more relevant to the company.

For the actual listings, I'd seperate each listing more clearly... either an alternating background colour for every 2nd listing, or some horizontal rule between them... just makes it easier on the brain IMO.

Flaminio

Ph3n0m wrote:

Why? It doesnt have to be

Divs are apparently the way forward, providing simpler and more portable html, and seperating content from design. So I read.

Goodshape wrote:

A bit on the plain side, and there's a few things I would personally spruce up a bit with some CSS, but after a bit of clicking around it seems to have exactly what you need, exactly where you expect it to be. I like that.

A nice, no nonsense, website imo.

Bang on target for what we wanted. Thanks for the menu tip.

Goodshape wrote:

Looks warm and beach-like to me, which makes sense considering its homes abroad.

aidan_walsh wrote:

Blue on yellow hurts my eyes.

Ph3n0m wrote:

have to agree the colour scheme does hurt my peepers

Hmmmm... the former is the desired effect. Does it *really* hurt your eyes? Can you give me more information on your screen type and gfx card? It should be warm and friendly and definitely not painful to view.

Any tips? This is definitely the colour scheme we want to go with so this comment is a concern

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, both positive and negative.

cgarvey

Agreed on the colour. Use softer tones and a colour wheel to get a few colours that get on well with each other.

It seems you're trying to sell something, so rather than a minimalist style (which I'd like for lots of reference material, etc.), I'd recommend getting a designer/concept artist on the case. The reason being that someone visiting your site looking to buy foreign property will more likely be wooed by the "cooler" looking site.

Also, I think there's too much text on the front/home page. Consider short paragraphs highlighting the main points you want to get across, and pointing to fuller explanations if needs be. Don't fill the page for the sake of it. I'd guess not many people will read the full content of the front/home as you have it.

.cg

DJB

It shouldn't be too difficult to get your site W3C compliant. You've only got 13 warnings on the home page. Screenshot attached of the warnings (bottom left hand corner). Here's how to fix (in order of list on screenshot):

1. Put ; at the end of the &amp
2. Change it to <\/a>
3. Change & to &
4. Same as 3
5. Same as 3
6. Instead of height="100%", change to style="height: 100%"
7. Same as 6
8. Add alt tag and maybe a title tag too
9. Same as 6
10. Same as 6
11. Same as 8
12. Add type="text/javascript" to the script tag
13. Remove the empty h2 tag, i.e. take out <h2></h2> or replace with <h2> </h2>

That should make it W3C compliant. If you use FireFox, you should really install this extension. It'll help you validate your work:

http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/

Clean site though. I prefer the printable version to the normal version.

Rgds,

Dave

DJB

Duh.... forgot screenshot!!!!

Goodshape

Flaminio wrote:

Can you give me more information on your screen type and gfx card?

Using a laptop screen myself, not the best for judging colours I'm afraid. It's a GeForce3 mobile something-or-other I've got.

Goodshape

cgarvey wrote:

The reason being that someone visiting your site looking to buy foreign property will more likely be wooed by the "cooler" looking site.

That's not neccessarily true. At times a simple design can give the impresion of being made by a small and dedicated group, perticularly when it's displaying detailed and relevent information, rather than an oversized corporation or just some clever web designer as an afterthought.

This gives the advantage that I feel I have a much better chance of getting a good personal service, should I want it.

Just my 2c; I think the minimilist design is really refreshing.

daymobrew

On my browser window there is a horizontal scrollbar, presumably because of the 'width="980" for the main table. Could you fix the width of the leftmenu and make the page width 100%?

FYI: I think that the image in the Romania page is vertically adjusted. The image is 120x183 but the html specifies 120x162 (a size consistent with other images and other pages). I suggest cropping the Romania image by 21 pixels.


Content comment: In the page of admirable ethics (I'm serious) it lists the stuff you won't sell. It surprised me that the stances are not mentioned on the pages mentioning those areas. For example no mention of not selling property in Dubai on the Dubai page. Am I reading the site too early, before the content is finalised?

Flaminio

Thanks for all the feedback. I had a long post answering everyone point by point, the moral of the story being don't use the boards Quick Reply feature when you're not logged in.

To cover some of ther points mentioned:

- fixed Romania image - cheers
- working on table issues (fixed width chosen with eyes open - should work great in 1024x7 and up)
- Dubai and other pages missing content - noted, good spot
- w3c compliance: this was a factor when creating, hence the low numbers of changes required
- minimalist design/text banner - the design was crafted with credibility, simplicity, and very much the opposite of being a "cool" site for the reason Goodshape and others mention.
- 3rd colour option - interesting, will consider that, good suggestion on text background and alternating property backgrounds
- wall of text on front page - will revisit

Again, thanks for all the feedback, both positive and negative.
Flaminio

daymobrew

Flaminio wrote:

- fixed Romania image - cheers
- working on table issues (fixed width chosen with eyes open - should work great in 1024x7 and up)

Looks good now.

WRT using 'eur' (for euro), is it safe to use the 'euro' entity? I've used it, it validates and displays for me. IMHO it looks better than 'eur' after the figures.

heggie

sorry, but there is simple design and then there is no design.

Seth Brundle

daymobrew wrote:

WRT using 'eur' (for euro), is it safe to use the 'euro' entity? I've used it, it validates and displays for me. IMHO it looks better than 'eur' after the figures.

Im of the belief that if the user doesn't have the € symbol installed then they are aware of it and choose not to have it.

Flaminio

heggie wrote:

sorry, but there is simple design and then there is no design.

sorry, but there is useful criticism and then there is completely pointless spam.

Flaminio

Not sure about the euro thing... I notice a lot of big sites using the text option.

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/643176/ref=topnav__w/402-4683138-4175346

heggie

nice attitude, btw look up what spam means before you accuse me of spamming

just trying to take you back down to reality, my useful critisism - HIRE A DESIGNER, and drop the attitude.

there is no design, there is 1 graphic, and then coloured table backgrounds, thats not a design, thats a layout.

if you're targeting a 'more discerning investor' then you need a more professional website, not something that looks like it was thrown together in 30 mins

Flaminio

Thank you, actual criticism that can be considered, exactly what I want.

eoge

Flaminio wrote:

sorry, but there is useful criticism and then there is completely pointless spam.

Haha. Good comeback.

The Muppet

I would remove the border around the Property of the month on sp.php page. I also found the blue text colour hard on my eyes, using a darker shade of blue may help..