Villain wont lay down top pair do you fish with 2nd pair

Bandana boy

Played a reasonably good player last night his big failing was not been able to lay down to river action

So he likes his aces and a couple of times when he flopped an ace he payed of some fishing fd and str bets

this was ok as muppet fish didnt realise that he was calling all river bets and kept pushing there busted draws on river and he was cleaning up nicely

Game is 1-2 NL HE 6 max and we are both deep 400+

I was watching this unfold and flopped 2nd pair against a big ace several times and folded to his flop action

but when i seen him pay of the fish i started wondering if with stacks this deep and great implied odds would a little fishing here not be ev+

Thoughts

Boie

How strong did he bet his top pairs? I guess a flop call can be fine sometimes but if he's betting strong I guess calling the turn can get expensive. Are you sure he does'nt realize you're a good player and wont call of his whole stack when you're betting?

Gholimoli

lol i assume the reasonably good player is me ,is it?

Bandana boy

Actually no
I dont think you get committed on an ace flop
Villain is olive something on PPP

And i never put you on top pair too conventional :-)

Bandana boy

Boie wrote:

How strong did he bet his top pairs? I guess a flop call can be fine sometimes but if he's betting strong I guess calling the turn can get expensive. Are you sure he does'nt realize you're a good player and wont call of his whole stack when you're betting?

he/she would often bet full pot on flop and sometimes check turn and then maybe half pot on river

but if obvious fd etc on board would bet all 3 streets

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

lol i assume the reasonably good player is me ,is it?

i wont be bringing up any of my outstanding plays against you on boards got keep those winning moves secret

Gholimoli

To answer your question no I don’t think this can be +EV.
If he bets with TP that means he is charging you to draw to your remaining 3 outs(this is assuming you actually have 3 outs and your unpaired card is not dominated).
Now based on what your saying he will bet on flop,turn and river bar some obvious flush draws or str draws.
No matter how deep you are this cant be +EV .in order for it to be +EV you have to count on being able to stack him pretty much every time:

1.you hit your other unpaired card.
2.your unpaired card is not dominated.
3.two pair can beat his hand.(his hand does not improve when your does)

Each of the above conditions have a % of coming true but the combination of them coming true has a much lower %.
Now the deeper the stacks the harder this becomes as the harder it is to stack some one when they are holding a lone pair. Obviously you don’t need to stack them for this to be +EV but your going to have to win enough of his stack to compensate for the bets your paying the times that you don’t hit your hand. And this does not happen nearly often enough.

ianmc38

Gholimoli wrote:

lol i assume the reasonably good player is me ,is it?

No you can't lay down bottom pair let alone top pair

Regarding the OP. No it's probably not profitable against someone who can't lay down top pair.

Samba

your a 1 in 5 dog on the flop with 2nd/bottom pair, you need to get those odds to at least, justify a call to go fishing.

You ain't gonna get those odds very often. your going to constantly leak money going river boating and it's just not worth it.

Hectorjelly

Of course it can be, it depends on a number of factors though, it most often comes up when someone habitually bets too small

Samba

i really cba rephrasing that just for you hector, yes you are right