What do people think

Odysseus

Hi all, just had an unusal experience tonight, and was wondering what others would do. My home is in a quite country estate, as I was approaching my home with my partner, I noticed a guy climbing out of the window next door. At this stage I had had about seven pints, making up for fluid loss over the weekend:D However, when I saw this I gave my girlfriend the keys and told her to go inside and ring the cops. I confronted the bloke and asked him what he was doing, started to give me a vague story about renting the house, and locking himself out, but was carrying bags out the window. He steped towards me, I told him to stand back, another step, told the same, another step, shouted stand the fu*k back, which he did, but all the time was reaching for his right hand pocket, {think the cnut had a weapon]. At this stage he stated he was'nt going to hit me, and I told him he was right;)

Basically I'm feeling a tad gulity that I did'nt drop him, fell into the trap that maybe he was renting, as that house is rented out to different people alot. The fukcer legged, the cops turn up an hour later:eek: After two calls. just wonder what do people think It was'nt my house, people come and go in it a lot so there was room for confusion, that plus being a tad pissed up.

Millionaire

You probably did the right thing...

1. Maybe you did drop him, and if he had a weapon, and got up and slashed you.

2. Dropping people in a foreign country where you do not know the ways, and how the cops operate is not a good idea (unless you really got no other choice).

I think you used your RBSD training, very effective way, with the verbals, and you probably was employing the fence too.

I saw some one breaking into a premises in dublin one night, so I called the guards.... got the usual disinterest. so I went home. I fel calling the guards I was doing my duty as a citizen, and if they were disinterested, then feck them.

Plus being pissed up, it is more difficult to evaluate and make the right decision.

yomchi

ever ready wrote:

What a pile of pony an trap,

this is the reason why people are just out for themselves, and the sence of community is all but gone. If you think you are a man then you should be man enough to do whats right.

People are so worried about what will happen to themselves they don't give a ***k about anyone else. You should have dropped the c**t and danced on his head. If you are going to do someone, always make sure they dont have toe chance to do you.

And don't take puff advice from someone called Millionaire who lives in a straw house in a third world country with his laptop. (There is something wrong with that picture)

LOL, what side of the bed did you get out of?

Oh and I'd agree with the guy who lives in a straw house with his lap top :rolleyes:

Millionaire

ever ready wrote:

And don't take puff advice from someone called Millionaire who lives in a straw house in a third world country with his laptop. (There is something wrong with that picture)

LOL! Its a lovely straw house...cheap rent too!

A bit of advice... you won;t become a millionaire paying Dublin prices!

Roll on the troll, roll on the troll of fun, oh roll on the troll... (imagine Sonny Knowles singing this to Roll out the barrel!!!).

Odysseus

Hi Gerry, Jon,

Cheers it as a difficult one, concrened moreso with glirfriends safety, making sure she was in side and on the phone. As said I was thinking to my self your pissed up here mate be careful. I think the fcuker was going for a screwdriver as its a classical "house breaking tool", I know most of my clients carry them when they are housebreaking.

Just to clarify, I'm back home now, so it could have been my home he was doing. Sickner for me as I moved up here to get away from that, but suppose you never can.

You right about the fence though, it worked very well, and to be far if I had KMed his ass, I would have had to hold him there for an hour waiting of the cops. Cheers

kenpo_dave

ever ready wrote:

Oh Yea LOL, Troll and all that sonny and cher stuff.

Funny I had you down as a cher fan, as rumor has it that you work as a tranny in a gay go go bar.

I find it funny that you choose to respond to my troling rather that defend your absolutely gay advice.

The check out where I trained for many years link is a joke.

Its like time cop2 van dame got old.
And my new book lark, you look like someone trying o portray themselves as something they are not.

You would be thankful if someone stopped a wan**r from robbing your gaf and doing a runner with all your stuff.

Odysseus, if you were smart you'd have battered the living sh*t out of the robber and let him know that if he comes around your place he will be stopped, instead you let him know that even if he gets rumbled nothing will happen, as the people in the estate are soft boiled women.

You know this, this is why you are feeling guilty and can't face your neighbour.

Well if you came to the boards for some people to tell you that letting him away was ok, then you are just as big a girl as Millionaire.

Here is my advice, go to champion sports and buy some balls.

Well, what Odysseus did was the right thing. And Millionaires advice is sound. Only someone who isnt very bright or has aggression problems will try and stop a burglar. As Odysseus said, the guy could very well have had a weapon.
On another point. Millionaire is well respected on here. Ive had the pleasure of training with him once when he came to visit us at Kokoro. Hes a tough guy. Whats more, hes currently in Thailand in a Muay Thai camp. What the hell are you doing? Sitting in front of your computer all day feeling good about yourself because your a great keyboard warrior, jerking off to porn all day?

Millionaire

kenpo_dave wrote:

Well, what Odysseus did was the right thing. And Millionaires advice is sound. Only someone who isnt very bright or has aggression problems will try and stop a burglar. As Odysseus said, the guy could very well have had a weapon.
On another point. Millionaire is well respected on here. Ive had the pleasure of training with him once when he came to visit us at Kokoro. Hes a tough guy. Whats more, hes currently in Thailand in a Muay Thai camp. What the hell are you doing? Sitting in front of your computer all day feeling good about yourself because your a great keyboard warrior, jerking off to porn all day?

Thanks Dave! Dave's fairly handy himself, packs a good wallop!

I think Ever Ready should change its name to Ever Bollix... if it even has a bollix! LOL!!!! ha ha!

This is funny! I am having a great laugh! I think I will get a few cans of beer, to keep the party going! LOL!!

yomchi

Odysseus wrote:

Hi Gerry, Jon,

Cheers it as a difficult one, concrened moreso with glirfriends safety, making sure she was in side and on the phone. As said I was thinking to my self your pissed up here mate be careful. I think the fcuker was going for a screwdriver as its a classical "house breaking tool", I know most of my clients carry them when they are housebreaking.

Just to clarify, I'm back home now, so it could have been my home he was doing. Sickner for me as I moved up here to get away from that, but suppose you never can.

You right about the fence though, it worked very well, and to be far if I had KMed his ass, I would have had to hold him there for an hour waiting of the cops. Cheers

I was going to say it was probably a screwdriver, best bet steering clear on it. No point in being dead for the sake of somoeone else's candleabra, or doing the job of the police, calling the police is the right thing to do. If it was your own house and your own family were in trouble well then natural instincts would have came into play with a different outcome.

Good assessment of situation and right decision made! pity batman wasn't around he always ever ready to take on thieves

Black Swan

Getting the g/f out of harms way was a good move, as was having her call the gardai. After this, it gets very complex and uncertain. If you attempted to physically restrain and detain him, he might resist, then it's anyone's guess what might happen in terms of criminal or civil legal issues.

Dragan

ever ready wrote:

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................Porn

I'd give it about another hour or two before your banned kid.

Shame that.

dlofnep

Sounds more like self offense to me. Fair play though - Cars keep getting broke into outside work all the time here - If anyone catches whoever is doing it, I hope they drop them. Society should have no tolerance for burgulars and car thieves.

Wes98

Hey Odysseus. I think you did the right thing. Without doubt!
You did your best to avoid confrontation, the guy legged away eventually, and no one got hurt, ya know?
What would have happened if ya ended up kickin him round the place, to eventually find out he was actually tellin the truth? (Even if it was unlikely..you just never no these days!:rolleyes: )
Even if that wasn't the case, if he had a weapon you could have been in big trouble,espically if you were drunk, people like that have nothin to lose.
So yeah,(I think) you did the right thing, Dealt with it fairly well in fact!

Lol Millionare!!!Up for a session yeah?

Millionaire

Wes98 wrote:

Lol Millionare!!!Up for a session yeah?

I have 3 wee cans of beer on the go, under the desk.

its a nightly ritual, and shall be sweated out tomorrow on the heavy bag! :

MaeveD

Odysseus wrote:

had about seven pints

All due respect but in my opinion you did one thing wrong....I think confronting someone like that especially when you've had that much to drink is a crazy thing to do and that you were real lucky he wasn't a total nutter!

You're feeling guilty???? You could easily have been stabbed to death for what could of been a few hundred quids worth of someone elses replacable and probably insured clothes.. leaving your family and girlfriend devestated!

I think exagerating to the gardai on the phone is always your best bet... tell them that you did hit him in self defence and that you think you killed him and they'd be around in a flash!

Odysseus

I see you point Maeve, but the guy was only about 7 feet away from me, open plan gardens, main concern was the grilfriend, cops, and he was looking at me as I told her what to do. I don't think I could have pretended not too have seen him. The decision was made in a flash, there was'nt really time to evaulate it.

SorGan

quote
Basically I'm feeling a tad gulity that I did'nt drop him, fell into the trap that maybe he was renting, as that house is rented out to different people alot. The fukcer legged, the cops turn up an hour later:eek: After two calls. just wonder what do people think It was'nt my house, people come and go in it a lot so there was room for confusion, that plus being a tad pissed up.[/QUOTE]

it was the best result mate, think about: you unleashing the fury:mad: and two days later the guy coming back and burning your house down, never sh*t on your own doorstep unless you have no choice, at least then you can live with it if it all goes south,;)

Musashi

I think you did really well in fairness Odysseus.

No-one got hurt, the burglar knows he's been spotted and people will probably be more alert and invest in better security around that area now. You or your GF weren't hurt And as you said, you'd have had to subdue and restrain this guy for up to an hour. He could nearly claim unlawful imprisonment at that rate of going!

Actually, any legal heads on here know what the story is with making a "citizens arrest"? Do you just announce to the world at large that you're doing it, then detain someone Is it an actual right any citizen even has? I'll not be chancing it either way, just wondered if it's some kind of Urban Myth that you can do it?

Odysseus

Thanks to everyone who has replied, on reflection I am happy with the decisions I made, I think the main thing was myself girlfriends safety, which had to be paramount. Also as someone who had never had any training apart from having to listen to me, I was pleased with the way she responded, if only she would listen to me like that more often:D At the end of the day, both herself and myself were safe, and nothing was taken. Therefore, I'm viewing it as a result. I think I was just so angry, because even though it was'nt my house, I seen it as a violation of my personal space. I had been out of the country the previous week, so it could have been my house.

Musashi as far as I know anybody can make a citizens arrest, by announcing it the person, after that what happens I don't know, but as you said I would'nt be going for it anyway.

Scramble

A private citizen can arrest someone who is committing an arrestable offence, or someone who you have reasonable cause to suspect is committing an arrestable offence. An arrestable offence in this context is something which carries a sentence of five years or more on conviction. However, you can only exercise this power if you have reasonable cause to believe that the guy you are arresting would otherwise manage to avoid arrest by Gardai (or indeed, if he is in the act of escaping arrest by a Garda). The arrested person must then be handed over to the Gardai as soon as practicable (ridiculous word, 'practicable', incidentally).

With that said, the letter of the law and the workings of the justice system in practice are two entirely different things. You might think that you are following the spirit and letter of the law, but someone else may read the same situation in a different light. There is also a constantly growing body of case law, with particular court outcomes changing the playing field.

Suppose you grab someone and hold them for the gardai. When the Gardai come, everything appears good. A criminal case is built against the person you have held. A few months down the line, that person is not convicted (which is always possible even in apparently straightforward cases), or the case simply collapses as a result of a complaint being drawn or some other anomaly. Subsequently, you find yourself on the receiving end of a civil suit from the punter you grabbed and held revolving around false imprisonment or assault. The standard of proof required in civil proceedings is less than in criminal proceedings, the plaintiff usually only has to establish the facts of their case as being true on the balance of probabilities, not beyond a reasonable doubt / a shadow of a doubt.

In short, you would be up financial **** creek. Then you have to ask yourself whether it was really worth holding that particular individual in the first place, as opposed to noting his direct of travel and generally giving a good description of him to the Gardai.

Gardai can find themselves in very murky waters if they effect an unlawful arrest or otherwise are found to have infringed a person's human rights. If someone working in that context, with at least some training and experience, can find themselves compromised then I suggest that a private citizen is all the more likely to find themselves in bother.

I am all for concerned and active citizenry, and the taking of personal responsibility for what goes on in our community. However, we should also be aware that we are in an increasingly litiguous society where the human rights of criminals are protected just as vehemently as those of ordinary citizens (counter-intuitive as that may seem).

With all that said-

There are few definitive answers to be had in relation to the law. Every year brings new court outcomes, new rulings and there are no guarantees. I'm sceptical about posting information online because there is too much room for minsinformation, misinterpetation and outright bad advice / guesswork.