Hand from Drogheda yesterday.

Ollieboy

This was my final hand in Drogheda yesterday, I had played really solid poker all day and only made 2 small mistakes and one brilliant bluff to get myself to the last 15 players.

I didn’t show a hand all day and I mean all day, 7 ½ hours of poker and nobody look me up once, if I raised it got respect and at this stage I had a stack of 35k, average been 45k and the chip leader having about 100k

I was in the BB and the player UTG moves all-in for about 70k, he has nearly everyone covered except the chip leader. The blinds are currently 3/6kand going up to 4/8k shortly and I’ve 29k behind me, everyone quickly fold and I have JJ.

Now this player made the exact same move earlier with AQ UTG and if he hits top pair he just moves all-in and if he has a strong hand preflop he’ll just move all-in, very little effort to play poker, just more of dump them in and hope his hand holds up. So his range here is AK/AQ, medium pairs from 1010 down to maybe 77, I’m leaving out JJ because I’ve already got that hand. When he moved all-in he jumps out of his seat and starts walking around the table, I know he doesn’t want a caller, because if he’s called it can only be by a better hand.

I’m putting him on AK and I know its going to be a race and I’m hoping he might have 1010 here, I know if I race and win I’ll have 73k 10% of the chips in play and will be able to play my way to the final table and would feel confident of getting a top 3 finish, if I fold, I still confident I can build my stack up by some well timed steals etc and would also be confident of getting to the final table, but would need some hands quickly and a bit of luck. I don’t feel JJ is a good enough hand here to take on AK and I’ve a gut feeling that he’ll hit and leaving me to need a J to win the hand, would you call or fold?

Remember, this is your tournament life on the line.

P.S. Tom Murphy was the dealer if that makes a difference…..lol. We didn’t get rid of a player for an hour and the dealer took a break and we loss 2 players in about 4 hands with Tom dealing.

ntlbell

Ollieboy wrote:

Remember, this is your tournament life on the line.

P.S. Tom Murphy was the dealer if that makes a difference…..lol. We didn’t get rid of a player for an hour and the dealer took a break and we loss 2 players in about 4 hands with Tom dealing.

Any other dealer and I call.

ianmc38

If I put him on AK then I call.

ollyk1

Ollieboy wrote:

This was my final hand in Drogheda yesterday, I had played really solid poker all day and only made 2 small mistakes and one brilliant bluff to get myself to the last 15 players.

I didn’t show a hand all day and I mean all day, 7 ½ hours of poker and nobody look me up once, if I raised it got respect and at this stage I had a stack of 35k, average been 45k and the chip leader having about 100k

I was in the BB and the player UTG moves all-in for about 70k, he has nearly everyone covered except the chip leader. The blinds are currently 3/6kand going up to 4/8k shortly and I’ve 29k behind me, everyone quickly fold and I have JJ.

Now this player made the exact same move earlier with AQ UTG and if he hits top pair he just moves all-in and if he has a strong hand preflop he’ll just move all-in, very little effort to play poker, just more of dump them in and hope his hand holds up. So his range here is AK/AQ, medium pairs from 1010 down to maybe 77, I’m leaving out JJ because I’ve already got that hand. When he moved all-in he jumps out of his seat and starts walking around the table, I know he doesn’t want a caller, because if he’s called it can only be by a better hand.

I’m putting him on AK and I know its going to be a race and I’m hoping he might have 1010 here, I know if I race and win I’ll have 73k 10% of the chips in play and will be able to play my way to the final table and would feel confident of getting a top 3 finish, if I fold, I still confident I can build my stack up by some well timed steals etc and would also be confident of getting to the final table, but would need some hands quickly and a bit of luck. I don’t feel JJ is a good enough hand here to take on AK and I’ve a gut feeling that he’ll hit and leaving me to need a J to win the hand, would you call or fold?

Remember, this is your tournament life on the line.

P.S. Tom Murphy was the dealer if that makes a difference…..lol. We didn’t get rid of a player for an hour and the dealer took a break and we loss 2 players in about 4 hands with Tom dealing.

So you think you are ahead and and maybe 40% of the time you are dominating him. Whats the question??

Stick it in.

If its "only" 55/45 in your favour and with the added price you are being laid from having the SB folded and your BB already in there you are well priced in over whatever edge you think you have over the field generally. You have 6 BBs ffs!

El Stuntman

call faster than a Spanish cyclist going uphill after a feed of HGT

result? (obv. you lost!!)

Gholimoli

El Stuntman wrote:

call faster than a Spanish cyclist going uphill after a feed of HGT

result? (obv. you lost!!)

call faster than this if you can.

Ollieboy

Olly,

the reason I ask the questions is simple, its a gamble, I'm losing my edge over this player by been drawn into a all-in, even if I'm 90% sure I'm ahead, as I cant see him playing QQ/KK/AA so badly. If I go all-in and he outdraws me, its over and I cant get the chance to outplay him later, up to this stage I've been the aggressor and taken down pots.

If the hand had been 22 to 66 would you still make the call, knowing that your ahead. I know I've only got 5 BB left, but thats actually 2 hours play in this game.

I made the call, as it was the correct call, but as I expect he hit a K on the flop, but I had outs on the river, a 9 or A for a straight and I was happy with the call as it was correct, but my question is, I'm given up my edge to another player, the blinds and clock are determine the call, not the standard of play. I've no reason to fold here unless I think I'm behind and I just got unlucky that my hand didn't hold up, but I was disappoint to play so well and not win, all due to a toss up and not a bad play or mistake on my part, which is easier to except, I guess.....lol

Ollieboy

and of course Tom Murphy's dealing....lol

fuzzbox

Ollieboy wrote:

I’m putting him on AK

Is that because you can beat AK?

You dont have good odds to call here with JJ. If he has JJ+/AK/AQ then this is a fold.

Only when you add in TT-77 into his range and AJ- does this become a call.
Usually thats wishful thinking.

Ollieboy

fuzzbox wrote:

Is that because you can beat AK?

You dont have good odds to call here with JJ. If he has JJ+/AK/AQ then this is a fold.

Only when you add in TT-77 into his range and AJ- does this become a call.
Usually thats wishful thinking.

putting him on AK, more because they way he played the hand and earlier hands also. Dont think he would make this move with AQ as he loss 25k the last time he made that move, so I'm guessing AK and hoping 1010 down to 88. But I'm 90% sure he's got AK.

I've got to call more because of my stack size and the stage of the tourney, rather than letting this hand go, I might not get the chance again to double up.

fuzzbox

Ollieboy wrote:

putting him on AK, more because they way he played the hand and earlier hands also. Dont think he would make this move with AQ as he loss 25k the last time he made that move, so I'm guessing AK and hoping 1010 down to 88. But I'm 90% sure he's got AK.

I've got to call more because of my stack size and the stage of the tourney, rather than letting this hand go, I might not get the chance again to double up.

Cold calling to race is bad.
Its only if he does it with TT- that you should consider a call, and I just dont see that v.often here.

I think you should fold.

fuzzbox

Actually - I didnt pay any attention to chip-stacks.

Call is fine, I suck.

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

Cold calling to race is bad.


I think you should fold.

Not when you correctly read your opponent for 2 overcards. With feck all BBs left this is an easy call.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Not when you correctly read your opponent for 2 overcards. With feck all BBs left this is an easy call.

This is the most common misconception in poker. (the I put him on AK part)

Ollieboy

fuzzbox wrote:

This is the most common misconception in poker. (the I put him on AK part)

But Fuzz, you've got to read a player and put him on a hand and than determined if your getting the right odds to call etc, you might misread his hand and put him on a bigger hand than he's actually on, but better to be safe than sorry.

And as ianmc38 said, I correctly put him on this hand. But due to stack size and blind levels, I had to call, just hated getting knock out on a hand I've no control over.

Remember, I only had to call 29k to win 44k (his 35k + 9k in the blinds), so I was getting 1.5 on my money.

anyway, I didnt like the call myself, but really had no choice. End of story.

ollyk1

Ollieboy wrote:

anyway, I didnt like the call myself, but really had no choice. End of story.

My point exactly. Your edge over the field isn't that big Ollie that you can throw 5/2 pot odds when you strongly suspect you are a favourite. Not with the blinds going to 4000/8000!! An interesting question is if you were 90% sure of AK/AQ and you had 2.5 BBs left and 79 sooted would you call??


On the other hand in the SE last week (as you saw) I too had 6 BB's on the big blind when ocallagh raised a little less then 3*BB. My read of his range was TT+ and AK (in this particular hand not generally its just the way he played this hand) and I didn't lay it down when I clearly should have. Different game and different player.

But I just love to gamble me. :rolleyes: Bah!

cardshark202

There's no way this is a fold with those stack sizes. He'd need to expose his hand to me and show me a bigger pair for me to fold here.

MadsL

quick question: 15 players, 4/8k blinds, CL has 12.5 BB - at what point were they planning to freeze the blinds? Looks like a crapshoot once those blinds go up.

Not a criticism btw, but looks like the structure is a bit fast to ensure decent FT play...any thoughts Tom?

Looking at the above - easy call with JJ

ocallagh

Unfortunately for you Ollie, the blinds and stack sizes dictated your actions here.

ps: I don't know how people can put someone on AK pre-flop with an all-in. I've never been able to do it (bar a really specific read on a player). With those blinds, they will play QQ/JJ/TT/AK/AQs the same way. And the nervous twitch in their index finger ain't gonna leak any information! You must put them on a range of hands.

Hitman Actual

Insta-call

Ollieboy

ocallagh wrote:

Unfortunately for you Ollie, the blinds and stack sizes dictated your actions here.

ps: I don't know how people can put someone on AK pre-flop with an all-in. I've never been able to do it (bar a really specific read on a player). With those blinds, they will play QQ/JJ/TT/AK/AQs the same way. And the nervous twitch in their index finger ain't gonna leak any information! You must put them on a range of hands.

ps: I did have him on a range, AK/AQ to 1010 to maybe 88, he played AQ the exact same way and loss 1/3 of his stack, he played very few hands and would never play a flop, it was all in before the flop or if he was in the blinds and hit, it was all-in, no in between. So putting him on AK was quite logicial here, with so many stacks of 20-30k on the table, he was happy to have race with any pair and would have been hoping to get called by AQ. My only decision here was to figure out was I ahead, which I knew straight away, so AK or AQ made little difference to me and medium pp would have been perfect. I also could rule out AA/KK/QQ here as he would have tried to raise to create some action, I felt he was happy for a race or just to pick up the blinds which was worth about 10% to his stack.

connie147

Hi Ollie.
Its an instant call from me too with the chip stacks as they are.The only reservation I have is you putting him on A-Q or A-K and maybe 77,88,99 or 10/10.You say he plays all his strong preflop hands the same by going all-in pf and not wanting to play poker.If thats correct,I think you could just as easy find him with QQ or KK or even AA.You certainly cant rule them hands out from the info you have.

Norwich Fan Rob

Unlucky Ollie, u did have to call though.
I would also put villian on AK, mainly as if i was villian, AK is the only hand id really play like that.

califano

Yeah its the way most of those Drogheda boyo's play AK. Also they sometimes do it with smaller pairs they dont want called. Yesterday one guy who wasnt yet desperate chip wise went all in UTG and i called on the button with KK. He had 55.

Ollieboy

connie147 wrote:

Hi Ollie.
Its an instant call from me too with the chip stacks as they are.The only reservation I have is you putting him on A-Q or A-K and maybe 77,88,99 or 10/10.You say he plays all his strong preflop hands the same by going all-in pf and not wanting to play poker.If thats correct,I think you could just as easy find him with QQ or KK or even AA.You certainly cant rule them hands out from the info you have.

Hi Connie mate,

I was fairly sure he had none of these hands by the way of his reaction, you dont get up off your seat when you go all in if you want a caller. Also, when I took my time calling, he was staring at my chips, ie wandering how much was at stake and want a count very quickly even without me calling yet. So I was safe to put him on that hand and the way he had play that hand up to this stage, also, mid pair was a possible hand, but I was trying to estimate against the worse hand possible, ie AK/AQ for me and a race.

I've no doubt I had to call, just wandering would other people agree with my reason for folding if I had and also the point in relation to given up your edge on a player, which is gone due to stack sizes and blinds.

But the chips would have end up in the middle whatever happen here, as I would have reraised if he had minimum raised or just flat call.

the point of the post is more about given up your edge to other players when you know you can outplay them over a longer period of time, I felt on the day, this was the only way I was going to lose my chips was in a race or a badbeat.

Enough of feeling sorry for myself, roll on the SE on Tueday....lol

Bandana boy

Ollieboy wrote:

, he played very few hands and would never play a flop, it was all in before the flop

. I also could rule out AA/KK/QQ here as he would have tried to raise to create some action,

Little bit of flawed logic here i think his range does include QQ+ from your post and I think if you think your good enough to come back with 5BB then you can fold though i probably go all in myself.

DeVore

You had to call Ollie, its just one of those hands. You win, you go onwards, you lose, you don't. I've had a year of losing those keys hands in fact

As for the structure, we gave 7,500 in chips, started at 25/50, put all levels in and gave 30 minute blinds. I dunno what else can be done to be honest, but I'm open to suggestions!

DeV.

Gholimoli

DeVore wrote:

You had to call Ollie, its just one of those hands. You win, you go onwards, you lose, you don't. I've had a year of losing those keys hands in fact

As for the structure, we gave 7,500 in chips, started at 25/50, put all levels in and gave 30 minute blinds. I dunno what else can be done to be honest, but I'm open to suggestions!

DeV.

this is one of the best structured games between the regular tourneys currently out there IMO and i love these games.

ocallagh

DeVore wrote:

You had to call Ollie, its just one of those hands. You win, you go onwards, you lose, you don't. I've had a year of losing those keys hands in fact

As for the structure, we gave 7,500 in chips, started at 25/50, put all levels in and gave 30 minute blinds. I dunno what else can be done to be honest, but I'm open to suggestions!

DeV.

That is a good structure!!

sounds like people just played slow and the blinds caught up..

How about 20 min blinds for the first 4 levels, and then 30 minute blinds? it would mean a bit more action at the start, but the field should thin a bit quicker leaving a bit more play for the later levels.

Ollieboy

DeVore wrote:

You had to call Ollie, its just one of those hands. You win, you go onwards, you lose, you don't. I've had a year of losing those keys hands in fact

As for the structure, we gave 7,500 in chips, started at 25/50, put all levels in and gave 30 minute blinds. I dunno what else can be done to be honest, but I'm open to suggestions!

DeV.

this is a really good tourney and great value Tom, maybe the starting stack is to big and 6k would be better, or starting at 2pm and having 40 min blinds after the first break. But you and Mike would know best from running this tourney, I just got caught up in the blinds and realise I was unlucky with this hand.

I blame the dealer....lol

MrPillowTalk

DeVore wrote:

I dunno what else can be done to be honest, but I'm open to suggestions!

DeV.

25k starting stacks and 90 minute clock with a 20 second speed clock on player decisions.

You have 5bbs back and have JJ, cant get much more of an insta call really there Ollie.