Outdoor Network Link 100 metres

ballooba

Hi,

I have an interesting problem here and would like some input on achieving the most cost effective working solution.

We have a wireless internet connection from Net 1 which feeds to an access point on the gable end of a shed in the farmyard by our house. Due to the difficult topographical conditions this was the only point on the property which could achieve a line of sight.

The router in the cow shed serves the offices of the family business which is approximately 200 metres away. This is achieved using a Cat5 cable running across the yard and through the hedges and in a window in the office. This is a temporary solution as the business will be relocating shortly.

We wish to hook up the house to the same network. The distance from house to yard is approximately 100 metres. This is within the range of traditional wireless but I assume that the bandwidth/pings would be terrible at that distance.

I'm assuming that the best solution here would be to swap out the current router, swap in a 802.11g capable router, slap on a directional antenna, point this at another directional antenna on the roof of the house which will be connected to another 802.11g capable AP.

Would it be best to use a model with two antennas in the house so that one can be fitted with the directional antenna and the other can be a omnidirectional antenna serving the house itself.

How would this work with the connection going:
PC -(wireless via omni)->Router-(wireless via directional)->Router-(via Net1)->WAN

There's two router's in their and a lot of microwaves floating about. Is there anything I should be aware of in terms of setting up the IP space and also regarding interfence?

[edit] Forgot the point of the thread for a minute their. Is there any more cool/interesting stuff that would be cheaper/better. E.g. Laser? or should I just keep it simple.[/edit]

Foxwood

ballooba wrote:

I have an interesting problem here and would like some input on achieving the most cost effective working solution.

We have a wireless internet connection from Net 1 which feeds to an access point on the gable end of a shed in the farmyard by our house. Due to the difficult topographical conditions this was the only point on the property which could achieve a line of sight....
We wish to hook up the house to the same network. The distance from house to yard is approximately 100 metres. This is within the range of traditional wireless but I assume that the bandwidth/pings would be terrible at that distance.

For 100 metres, I'd look seriously at running cable. Especially if you've got 200 metres of cat 5 lying around once the office moves. I'm sure you can make the wireless solution work, but the problem is that when it doesn't work, it's a bitch to debug.

andrew163

Pick up a 100m roll of Cat5e from maplin for €20. (if for some reason you can't use the 200m that you already have)

sdanseo

That family business must be doing very well if you want to buy a two new routers and a directional antenna:p...dunno how much that works out at but i agree with the above, run some cable and then have a wireless network within the house.:)

Snaga

Are the two buildings on the same electrical circuit?

If so you these might be what you are looking for...

http://cgi.ebay.com/85Mbps-HomePlug-Turbo-SE-HP-T2-Ethernet-Adaptor_W0QQitemZ300002770785QQihZ020QQcategoryZ40995QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Pings should be fine, throughput would be ok (better than a good wireless connection - not as good as a cat5 connection).

Ive used them before to stream video from one room to another and also in a similar situation to you (getting a satellite broadband connection from an external garage into the main house).

You can use multiple plugs but it starts acting like a hub then and your max throughput starts to dive a bit, but for point to point stuff it should be pretty solid.

According to the specs they are good for about 300 meters.

JohnnieM

Networks shouldnt be run over cable for more than 100 mts. Their is a cool bit of kit out there called vdsl router which you can use to run a network up to 4km (depending on cable type) you simply plug your network in at the master end and a ethernet switch at the other..no delay in pings speed etc etc.. available from a company in Clane called Commsys. 086 2680777 priced around 150 euro each . You need a master and a slave

Capt'n Midnight

OLD co-ax cards will go 180m at 10Mbp - some creative people should have a way of jury-rigging a balun to allow them to run on CAT5

You could try over 100m and see if it works you might get lucky but 200m would be really pushing it.

If there was any chance of power in the centre you could put a small hub or switch there with 100m cable to it from each side. Actually you could use the wireless device as the centre point, 100Mb on the wired lan and remote access as well. You can get gigibit hubs for very little these days http://www.marxcomputers.ie network for an example

Wires are a lot more secure than wireless. some are affected by weather when it's very cold / wet (but so is wireless) so if you can put them in ducting or trunking like that pvc pipe once you've proved it works over the distance.


PS. cable is cheap - don't just run a single cable - run two or four, they will get used some day for phone or alarm or some such

IIRC you can also run TV / CCTV over CAT5 but not sure how you set it up

Snaga

Or if you already have power in the garage back to your main house feed - you dont need to run any more wires, user the powerline stuff over the existing wires - it does work quite well.

ballooba

sdonn_1 wrote:

That family business must be doing very well if you want to buy a two new routers and a directional antenna:p...dunno how much that works out at but i agree with the above, run some cable and then have a wireless network within the house.:)

2 X 8-360 Omni Antennas @ E40
Associated cables ~ E20
2 X 802.11g Routers @ E40

Not having cable running all over the place priceless.

JohnnieM

excellent idea...like the slogan

Foxwood

ballooba wrote:

2 X 8-360 Omni Antennas @ E40
Associated cables ~ E20
2 X 802.11g Routers @ E40

Not having cable running all over the place priceless.

You probably shouldn't use a router at the PC end of the chain - an access point or range extender might be a better choice (less complicated from a networking point of view). Netgear doesn't seem to have a Range Entender. The Linksys WRE54G or DLink DWL-G800AP are the kind of thing I'd look at.

bushy...

why use omnis for a point to point link ?

ballooba

bushy... wrote:

why use omnis for a point to point link ?

Because they're cheap.

Incidentally. If I use the high gain omni is there any need for a second router?

axer

ballooba wrote:

Because they're cheap.

Incidentally. If I use the high gain omni is there any need for a second router?

There are laws limiting the maximum signal output.

Capt'n Midnight

ballooba wrote:

Because they're cheap.

Incidentally. If I use the high gain omni is there any need for a second router?

directionals put all the energy in the right way. Omni's can have a very narrow beam and

>|< low gain omni
-|- high gain omni

.< directional with same gain as high gain omni

ballooba

Thanks Capt'n this whole area of radio waves and antennas is quite new to me.

So basically, the smaller the wave pattern the better in terms of distance travelled. So I should get out my calculator and measuring tape out and work out what wave pattern I need to cover the dimensions of my house from 100 metres away.

Now if only I could find my leaving cert trig notes.

ballooba

Based on that assumption the following antenna would give me a 21 x 21 metre signal at 100 metres away? So I would need to be drunk to be unable to point it at the correct room.

Would this microwave anyone in the room it's pointed at?

Antenna:
http://wi-pipe.com/2.4GHz/Specs/24%20SD24.pdf

Trig:
http://www.marlenesite.com/math/trigonometry/asideangle.asp?F1=100&F2=12&F3=blank&F4=blank&flg=Answer&#middle

bushy...

Meant to finish off post the other day , anyway , you can get Rootennas ( about 40 euro each), they have a pouch at the back for the gear,could do with a bit of sealant around them though for winter weather here.
As for what to put in them , you could get dedicated boards&radios for about 140 euros per end,not really worth going with hacked linksys gear for that.

If you want to save a bit you could buy two weatherproof boxes(~10euro ea.) and make your own antennas for inside them ( bit of copper sheet,bit of wire and a bit of soldering )

If you want a cheaper way out again , you could put a usb wifi thingy in a reflector at the office end and put a router at the house end,not promising this will work properly though.
I suppose decide what way you want to go about it and go forward from there.

kyper

I wouldn't go with a wireless solution for something like this. The easiest thing to do would be to buy two powerline adapters which I find are great for linking two buildings and it's near 100mbps cat5 lan speeds (85mbps and my pings are <1ms on average here).

The cheapest option would be to use that cat5 cable you have and buy some waven pipe and just run the cat5 cable through it. Should be good for 5 years. One thing to note about this is that the network throughput will degrade over 100m distances and also as the cable itself degrades.

For sheer handiness I'd go with powerline gear though. Plug it in and use it in your current office then when you move unplug it and move it to your new office.

bushy...

A run of network cable is what i'd go for too, but I don't think the OP is interested in a wired solution.( btw Hire shops do things like these : http://www.maxon.com/parsontu.htm#T-80 ). Powerline gear would be the cheapest/least hassle by far though

JohnnieM

afik the powerline is only effective if its on the same electrical circuit... if the shed is a different supply...!!also afik max speed is 14mbps.. (which is ok) Not 100 same as cat 5e

Foxwood

JohnnieM wrote:

afik the powerline is only effective if its on the same electrical circuit... if the shed is a different supply...!!also afik max speed is 14mbps.. (which is ok) Not 100 same as cat 5e

There are 85Mbps units available too.

JohnnieM

what about ..Do they have to be on the same electrical circuit!!??

Foxwood

JohnnieM wrote:

what about ..Do they have to be on the same electrical circuit!!??

What do you think, Johnnie? Maybe I would have mentioned it if you were wrong about that too?

(Whether you'd get anything close to 85Mbps over 200 metres of electrical wiring is a different story, of course).

JohnnieM

ouch..

Snaga

There are up to 200mbps powerline variants out there and available now...

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=3477
http://www.broadbandcarrier.net/ethernet200.htm

JohnnieM

Snaga wrote:

There are up to 200mbps powerline variants out there and available now...

http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=3477
http://www.broadbandcarrier.net/ethernet200.htm

cool. thats why boards is so good... you learn something new everyday...