QQ tournament life on the line

Bandana boy

the 20K guaranteed on PPP last night

100 players left I have not seen many cards but I am at a respectablish 14K in chips (about 40th in chips)
When i get QQ in EMP (UTG+2 i think maybe +3)
Blinds are 500-1K
I make it 4K and cl on our table(22k) sitting directly over me min raises me to 9K
He is actually 1 of 2 people on the table who cover me and while he has been very aggresive he hasnt been on any of my raises before.

Action and thoughts

Iago

push..you're out of time and out of chips, if you fold you're going to lose 15% of your chips in the next 3-5 hands anyway and then you'll end up pushing with AT or something.

He hasn't min-raised but he definitely has a hand, unfortunately you don't have the chips to lay this down here. push and hope he's holding JJ-TT (unlikely) or AK (very possible)

mewso

Push and pray. You've left yourself with only 10k if you fold so you're going to have to get them all in soon enough anyway if you fold. I'm pushing unless I know this player well enough to know he will only re-raise with AA/KK which is unlikely. I'm hoping he has JJ or less.

karlh

he's telegraphing AA or KK. if i'm thinking straight, I fold.

Ste05

Push and pray...

Iago

karlh wrote:

he's telegraphing AA or KK. if i'm thinking straight, I fold.

unless he turns over AA or KK before the action gets back to me then I'm pushing.

In fact I'd nearly push regardless, you've got less than 10BBs left after your bet, there's 100 players left and only 27 get paid, the only prizes worth winning are in the top 9, and you will end up pushing with 66 or something..

I probably wouldn't push regardless, but that's not the point. You have to push here everytime.

cooker3

Unless I know the guy is tight and you say he has been aggressive then I push, down to 10bb here, doesn leave leave you any room. Has he min raised like this before, knowing that would make the decision easier but still push

Gholimoli

push

Bandana boy

I very nearly folded this as with my table image i dont believe this is ever JJ TT ,but it could easily be AK which i should play against

QQ is a big nemesis of mine in big MTTs and I hate playing hands where I am calling regardless of my holding but call i did and he had KK

I am not sure there is a way to get away from this hand once i have raised
Maybe I could limp and hope it induces a push from a stack i can gamble with

accensi0n

Bandana boy wrote:

I am not sure there is a way to get away from this hand once i have raised
Maybe I could limp and hope it induces a push from a stack i can gamble with

Don't.

Ste05

This is just called variance, next time you'll have AA and he'll have KK...

But it won't make a difference because he'll still spike a K on the turn, so yet another time variance kicks you in the ass... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jimbling

Bandana boy wrote:

the 20K guaranteed on PPP last night

100 players left I have not seen many cards but I am at a respectablish 14K in chips (about 40th in chips)
When i get QQ in EMP (UTG+2 i think maybe +3)
Blinds are 500-1K
I make it 4K and cl on our table(22k) sitting directly over me min raises me to 9K
He is actually 1 of 2 people on the table who cover me and while he has been very aggresive he hasnt been on any of my raises before.

Action and thoughts

sorry... "over me"? do you mean 1 seat to your left? If so I am folding. The only way I am not folding is if, during the villians aggrissive streak that you've been observing, he has been min-raising regularly.

Hitman Actual

Bandana boy wrote:

I very nearly folded this as with my table image i dont believe this is ever JJ TT ,but it could easily be AK which i should play against

Why, what way would he play JJ or TT? And I cant see the point in making a silly min-raise with AK in this spot. But then, I dont play online very often.

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

I very nearly folded this as with my table image i dont
Maybe I could limp and hope it induces a push from a stack i can gamble with

perfect ,when in doubt just limp.raising is over rated,i dont even know why ppl raise when they have the option to limp.

Bp!

As Karl said earlier villian was tellin you he had AA/KK here with this raise, any other hands would push to make a tough decision on you (though you were never just callin his reraise obviously, either all in or fold) , he wanted it all in the middle.

However with your tournament life in dire need of some sort of mouth to mouth , if theres even the smallest chance I think im racing here i would have pushed too (but in my gut knowin i was scrooooowed!)

karlh

i'd fold here when he's telling me his hand and at least have 10bbs.

much better to push with any 2 in the very next hand if needs be IMO.

Bp!

karlh wrote:

i'd fold here when he's telling me his hand and at least have 10bbs.

much better to push with any 2 in the very next hand if needs be IMO.

^^ is the correct thing to do ! Id push cause im an idiot !

Iago

it's the correct thing to do if he exposes his hand, it's not the correct thing to do if he min-raises you in this position! Personally I think villian played it badly but that's just me.

5starpool

I think some people here (Karl and BP!) are giving people way too much respect in general. Most poker players are poor. Most have no concept of table image. I would need an extremely good reason to lay down my QQ here given the stack sizes especially.

Bandana boy

lenny_leonard wrote:

Why, what way would he play JJ or TT? And I cant see the point in making a silly min-raise with AK in this spot. But then, I dont play online very often.

Dont get me wrong most and i mean 95%+ MTT players are awful but not all
And a much lower % are awful when they have accumulated a stack have postion and have committed 2 hours to the game already

Villain is quite aggressive and has raised and called SS all ins with Rag ace etc

but he is not stupid and I am not a SS(compared to table) i feel only hand that comes over the top is AA KK I think i talked myself into thinking its sometimes AK

He is too my immeadiate left

Bloody QQ again

What are my choices
a raise i am pot committed
a limp is never good but in emp maybe an option ?
Fold i am not that much of a coward

NickyOD

karlh wrote:

i'd fold here when he's telling me his hand and at least have 10bbs.

much better to push with any 2 in the very next hand if needs be IMO.

I agree. Despite your stack size I think you should fold QQ to an early position raise and reraise ezcept maybe if the second player had just pushed all in, then I would have called but you've got think with this kind of raise from 4K to 9K he's holding a hand he wants action with. He gave away a lot about his hand with the size of the raise and It will be AA/KK the majority of the time.

Bp!

The reason I would not be surprised to see AA/KK here is cause he is not tryin to get Bandana off his hand, he is inviting the Hero to come over the top of him here. Anyone with half a brain cell wouldnt be doing this with anything other than KK/AA (with shallow(ish) stacks) , even AK would push here.

The villain wanted to keep his customer but was afraid if he pushed Hero will fold so he raised basically the minimum. In this case pushing would have been the better option for Villian cause now AK becomes a very possible holding IMO and would induce me to take a shot with the Q's

I would have been 50/50 to pushin with the QQ given the stack size and if being honest would prob have done it myself, though its very possible to get back in a tourney with 10 BB's hence folding is the best option here

Hitman Actual

Bandana boy wrote:

Dont get me wrong most and i mean 95%+ MTT players are awful but not all
And a much lower % are awful when they have accumulated a stack have postion and have committed 2 hours to the game already

Villain is quite aggressive and has raised and called SS all ins with Rag ace etc

but he is not stupid and I am not a SS(compared to table) i feel only hand that comes over the top is AA KK I think i talked myself into thinking its sometimes AK

He is too my immeadiate left

Bloody QQ again

What are my choices
a raise i am pot committed
a limp is never good but in emp maybe an option ?
Fold i am not that much of a coward

I might have come across wrong, it's just that someone who puts in a min-raise with AK here (which is pretty terrible, tbh), will surely do it with 88-JJ, maybe AQ as well. Which makes it an easy push, I think.

But anyway, going by your read of AA/KK and sometimes AK, I think folding depends on how often the "sometimes AK" comes up. Against those three hands QQ is a 60/40 dog, so if he rarely does it with AK then folding becomes much closer. (I think your odds on a (called) push are 33%?).

Iago

Unless you win a hand in the next 3 hands you're down to 8.5bbs and you're forced into pushing with marginal hands in order to steal blinds/double up.

If villian had turned over AA then this would have been a good bet, but with 4/5 players to act after him, all on average stacks and all looking to double up he's inviting AK/AQ/QQ/JJ and maybe even TT to have a go. (no we wouldn't do this, but how often has someone had a go with a mid pp when there are two or three players involved ahead of them, have a look at the bad beat sticky if you need examples!!)

as well as that there are more than enough bad players online who think doing this with JJ/TT/AK/AQ is a good idea, that unless you are shown the cards you have to call.

If I had 15+BBs behind I would fold to this raise, anything less than that and I push and close my eyes...

karlh

Iago wrote:

there are more than enough bad players online who think doing this with JJ/TT/AK/AQ is a good idea...

i regularly play a lot of bad players online and have not found this to be the case.

bad players generally min-raise with big hands and give the game away. same with flopped sets.

i see the villain's play in this hand as a crystal clear signal to get out of the way and pick a better spot.

i dont agree with the 'close your eyes' and hope i'm coin flipping at best approach here. 10bb and a tournament life is worth a lot more in this position than most people seem to realise.

pushing with any live cards in a subsequent hand and looking for a double up is much better play than pushing with the likelyhood that you're crippled.

trust me, i tend to just have 10bbs and a tournament life quite often.

5starpool

Iago wrote:

If villian had turned over AA then this would have been a good bet, but with 4/5 players to act after him, all on average stacks and all looking to double up he's inviting AK/AQ/QQ/JJ and maybe even TT to have a go. (no we wouldn't do this, but how often has someone had a go with a mid pp when there are two or three players involved ahead of them, have a look at the bad beat sticky if you need examples!!)

Yep, I would be far more likely to push as a reraiser with KK than with AK.

cardshark202

Your best option would have been to limp min-re-raise or limp re-min-raise, the most powerful weapons in the artillery that is the mentally disabled poker player(96% of all players).