DTT Trial: DCMNR and BCI look for content...

DMC

The BCI and the Department of Communications of Marine and Natural Resources are now looking for "content managers", i.e, looking for companies to provide and manage content for all of MUX 2 and some of MUX 3 (all, if there are takers) MUX 4 will be on hold, and for the moment, will be used to test HD TV and MPEG4. MUX 1 is reserved to the existing terrestrial broadcasters, radio and TV.

More here (PDF)
and here (RTF)

flogen

could a company without a broadcasting licence be a content provider for the trial? I assume they could apply but I wonder if the DCMNR would reject them...

Phen

Will they be upgrading the transmitters around the country during the trial period or will that happen after the trial? Why will it take so long to conduct the trial in the first place?

Sponge Bob

Phen wrote:

Why will it take so long to conduct the trial in the first place?

Because Ireland has no Digital Vision or Digital Plan of any sort. A more ambitious country would have all the main transmitters done by Christmas.

Not surprising with this fella here 'in charge' though , is it ??

rlogue

Why the hell are they restricting the trial to 1000 users? Are they going to encrypt the service to stop people like us who have an interest in the subject from watching??

I can't understand the point of going to the extent of providing a service at presumably great cost to have only an elite handful of viewers accessing the service! :mad:

byrnefm

From reading the documents linked to by DMC above, it looks that a standard Freeview receiver is all that'll be needed to pick up the transmissions. I wonder what number of people the DAB test was 'restricted to'? It's probably the same: they'll have equipment for up to 1000 people but if you get a box by your own means, you'll pick up the stations but not be part of the official beta test.

Also, from reading the docs, while the equipment will be ready by mid-August, it doesn't sound like they'll be transmitting until 'the Autumn', whenever exactly that'll be!

L1011

BBC HD in London is "restricted to 1000 viewers" too. It just used an obscure coding mode (MBAFF) that not all boxes and most software couldn't handle. Although most of them could now.

I think this means that only 1000 viewers will be getting free boxes, nothing else.

Charles Slane

Interesting piece by Adam Maguire in the Sunday Business Post -

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA%20AND%20MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=15713-qqqx=1.asp

British channels could join Irish DTT

16 July 2006 By Adam Maguire
Ireland’s DTT (digital terrestrial television) trial may include a number of British television channels alongside Irish broadcasters when it starts later this year, The Sunday Business Post can reveal.

Ireland’s DTT (digital terrestrial television) trial may include a number of British television channels alongside Irish broadcasters when it starts later this year, The Sunday Business Post can reveal.

The Department for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, which is in charge of the project, is looking for applications for the provision of visual, audio and interactive content for the two-year trial, which is due to start in autumn.

Documentation published by the department states that all providers must have the relevant licences to broadcast their content when the trial begins.

This was originally considered to apply only to Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) radio and television licences. However a spokesman for the department confirmed that broadcasters licensed in any jurisdiction covered by the Television Without Frontiers directive would also have to meet the requirements for the purpose of the trial.

This means that television broadcasters from any EU state are free to apply and, if successful, provide content to DTT viewers in Ireland.

As an application process is still taking place, it is unclear what channels will feature on the trial. However, Ireland’s four terrestrial stations - RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 - are guaranteed to be carried. It is expected that the country’s other national channels - Setanta Sports and Channel 6 - will also apply. Both of these stations are available on cable or digital networks only.

After the trial is completed in 2008 it is expected that a national DTT network will be constructed to carry the service to all Irish homes. While the upcoming trial will only be available to viewers in Dublin and Louth, it is expected to form the basis of any future service, so early involvement could give broadcasters an advantage in the coming years.

When asked if UTV intended to make an application to the trial, a spokesman said that the station was currently ‘‘investigating the requirements’’.

The channel is regulated in the North by British broadcasting watchdog Ofcom, but is available to about 60 per cent of homes in the Republic via cable. It has also put significant resources into expanding its viewership across the island in recent years.

The inclusion of UTV in the trial could create issues for TV3, however, as both stations provide largely similar content.

TV3 has in the past fought attempts by UTV to become available on the Sky Digital electronic programming guide in Ireland, as it felt it could damage its rating figures and advertising revenue.

British Sky Broadcasting (BSkyB) was also unable to confirm its plans for DTT in Ireland. ‘‘We note the recent publication by the Department of Communications in respect to the possible DTT trial and we are currently reviewing our options,” said a spokesman for the company.

BSkyB is already involved with British DTT service Freeview and broadcasts Sky News, Sky Sports News and Sky Three across that network.

Should the company take part in an Irish version of Freeview it is possible that a similar service would be provided.

BSkyB has also taken a bigger interest in Irish viewers in recent years, most notably with the broadcaster’s Ireland-focused daily news programme on its rolling news network.

Theoretically, other EU broadcasters could also apply.

Poland’s TVP network is already watched by many foreign nationals in the country and is now being carried by Magnet Entertainment in its Polish package.

When the trial commences, the department will provide 1,000 digital television set-top boxes to selected viewers as part of its testing. Feedback from these viewers will be used to judge if the trial is successful or not and will provide information to help decide what changes need to be made before a national launch.

Anyone in the broadcast area with their own equipment will also be able to receive the broadcasts, however they will not be included in the official test.

DMC

That names rings a bell...

Mossy Monk

interesting that he mentions Polish tv

not surprising though

aphex™

How about we cater for all the Irish interests first before we move on to foreign stations for random groups

watty

Probabily more people speak Chinese & Polish daily than Irish in Ireland. But I don't know.

Charles Slane

watty wrote:

Probabily more people speak Chinese & Polish daily than Irish in Ireland. But I don't know.

I use Dublin Bus and I reckon on most journeys these days over 50% of the passengers are Eastern European or Chinese. They're a very real part of Dublin's and (to a slightly lesser extent) Ireland's society now.

When the market is there and there's money to be made, they will be catered for. The Evening Herald now has a Polish supplement every Friday and I saw an ad in one of the papers last week which was totally in Chinese (Mandarin, I guess).

flogen

aphex&#8482 wrote:

How about we cater for all the Irish interests first before we move on to foreign stations for random groups

A forward thinking person would suggest that Irish interests and foreign stations are no longer mutually exclusive

Sadly I had a hard time getting any confirmations from TVP; in general it was bound to happen and I'd be surprised if it didn't remain the same when/if the full service comes about in 2+ years... unfortunately I couldn't get TV3 for a reaction either (but I think I know what it would have been)

DMC

Its hugely unlikely that a Polish channel will appear on an Irish DTT system.

How many Bangladeshi/Indian/Pakistan channels are on Freeview in the UK? None.

flogen

DMC wrote:

Its hugely unlikely that a Polish channel will appear on an Irish DTT system.

How many Bangladeshi/Indian/Pakistan channels are on Freeview in the UK? None.

It probably won't but given that there are around 200,000 polish people amongst a population of around 4 million (which is a fair proportion) and TVP could broadcast on Irish DTT (while I don't think the same freedom applies in the UK, certainly not to non-EU countries) there is a possibility.
As it stands Polish people in Ireland are importing equipment etc. to watch their channel (although now there's magnet poland)

DMC

So long as they know they have to pay the TV licence, no-one is going to care too much what they watch, really.

From an integration point of view, with the greater Irish society and broadcasting here, thats an arguement for another thread

Elmo

I am of the opinion that if you go to a country you should embrace that country as your own and try to keep the small things from home. It is after all unlikely that you will return to your own country, after all your children will effectively be Irish (not through the constitution, but eventually when they're about 10 years of age and have the scummiest Dublin accent available). In an era where the world is in the palm of your hand it becomes easier to distance yourself from your neighbours.

But that might be off the topic.

More then likely DTT will be give over to the British channels with no room for any Irish imagination as per usual.

In effect the BCI/BAI will be as usual ineffective and a local office to OFCOM.

The lack of imagination from RTE is at it's strength, it's only plans for extra TV channels has been RTE 1+1, RTE2+2, RTE NEWS AND SPORT with no room for extra channels, I haven’t heard and other ideas.

It however would not be implausible to provide the following

RTE ONE
RTE TWO
THE DEN/RTE THREE (Giving many of the 11,000 hours of TV bought by RTE prime time hours)
DEN TOTS/RTE FOUR (Information, arts (the proms) and other resources)
RTE NEWS
RTE SPORT

Remember much of what is show on BBC Three and Four is repeat on BBC One and Two and visa versa.

However TV3's buyers Hanson have state that they see an opertunity for developing other digital TV channels hence their interest. And channel six have plans of a music channel and Channel 6 +1 (we really need that, so we do).

watty

+1 channels are a criminal waste of spectrum. Thankfully when PVRs become widespread maybe they will fade away. As will 6 to 8 versions of the same "Box office" film staggered at 15 minutes.

bk

watty wrote:

+1 channels are a criminal waste of spectrum. Thankfully when PVRs become widespread maybe they will fade away. As will 6 to 8 versions of the same "Box office" film staggered at 15 minutes.

It is OT, but as a PVR user (TiVo) I find the repeat channels to be very handy as the TiVo has only one tuner, so I can record the repeats with the TiVo, even if they are on at 4am in the morning.

However I partly agree, on cable or sat with lots of spectrum repeat channels are fine, but on DTT with limited spectrum, it would be better used with a better variety of channels and higher quality bit rates used.

byte

For the limited space available to DTT, I'd agree with watty by saying +1 channels are a waste of bandwidth.

Timeshift channels should be left on cable/satellite, where there is more scope.

watty

And even there a waste of bandwidth ....

mrdtv

The BCI plan is doomed to failure because of the timings issue:

a) There is no commitment to a commercial DTT rollout.

b) Why should UK channels invest time and money with no guarantee of either a commercial service or long-term carriage deals? Ditto TVP.

c) There are no plans for a subscription funded DVB-H service unlike other EU countries which could bankroll a lot of the infrastructure. A real paucity of thinking by BCI and the Department.

d) When the trial ends in two years time Four and Five will have got out of their Sky encryption contracts, the Freesat service will be very attractive from BBC/ITV (and Sky will no doubt react), meaning that anyone in Ireland can use a cheapo satellite box to get UK channels. This is very bad news for NTL. Chorus et al never mind a DTT system.

e) MPEG4 boxes are 40% more expensive unless subsidised: that's why they are only used in pay services such as pay-DTT, Sky, IPTV and, of course, DVB-H mobile phones use MPEG4 chips too.

f) The net result is that Irish terrestrial television is likely to stay analogue for the next two years at the very least, and could well be marooned in an analogue ghetto.

g) The plan is in cloud cuckoo land. Why bother with a trial: the system workd everywhere else in Europe? Its just a stalling tactic.

A more commercial approach would be:

a) Sell RTE transmission as a going concern

b) Establish a single operator with the MARKET freedom to pick and choose the additional services on top of the Irish terrestrial channels, the transmission technologies (MPEG2 or MPEG 4 etc...)

c)Use the Freeview and/or TNT business models (these work...)


d) Integrate the DTT box with FTA DVB-S to pick up Freesat too (this is precisely what Canal+ are doing with TNT in France albeit in the pay domain)

e) Licence one of the multiplexes to a nationwide DVB-H operator

f) Leave it to market forces.

Of course this solution would work but is extremely unlikely in Ireland because BCI and the Department are totally clueless. By the time the trial ends they will have had DTT in Northern Ireland for ten years ( and we have been here before in the development of television services in Ireland.) It is a disgrace that, unlike other small EU countries, Ireland does not have a viable commercial DTT service either on-air or a realistic prospect. All those responsible for this continuing fiasco would have been fired years ago in the private sector.

mrdtv

watty

What you say is largely true. It was already decided nearly 6 years ago to sell RTE Transmission network.

There is work progressing on DVB-h by commercial operators (note only about 1/4 resolution of ordinary TV).

MPEG4 will shortly be no premium at all. It makes sense for a new service.

MPEG4 allows twice as many channels. 30 Channels is not really commercially viable with Pay TV with as you point out free BBC/ITV. The 60+ channels now and 120+ channels after analogue close down is viable as a mixed free & pay TV platform , but to encourage take up BBC/ITV/C4 and Five need to be FTA. There may not be the vision for this esp. If RTE has any control.

The RTE people doing the DAB trials wanted BBC Radio which given the lack of enough station to fill a couple of DAB multiplexes here and lack of commercial enthusism would make sense in take up of the service. RTE management vetoed the idea. The cost in royality payments is tiny.

Even for DTT the cost in Royalty payments for BBC/ITV/C4/Five is tiny proportion of network costs. You can look up how much Chorus/NTL pays.

I'll bet the cost for Sky, for BBC NI on Irish EPG too, is small change compared with transponder space or buying encryption from Sky.


The DTT has been left to "market forces" Only "IT's TV" applied and they never proved they could finance it, so were refused a licence, though they claim they withdrew because they were not allowed to run a Broadband service (cell size of TV transmitters for DVB-RCT is too large for Broadband anyway, though the system can do 3Mbps upstream, but that is TOTAL for everyone on a transmitter)

watty

The ReelBox from Reel Multimedia does DVB-t, DVB-s, HD, 320G disk and DVD player / dual layer writer, ethernet, USB, firewire, Multiple channel recordings while you watch another and also 108Mbps MIMO wifi option.

I regard that kind of box the minimum to compete with Sky & UPC (the artists formerly known as Chorus/NTL).

I'll let you know when I get it working with Irish DTT trial and a Irish/UK EPG.

DMC

The BCI site has been updated with Q & A into the responses so far received.

link here (.doc)

watty

Neither the questions or the answers are very encouraging.