Eddie O'Sullivan doing a job????

youthacademy

For the last number of years, despite irelands talent, we've only 'almost' been a great team. even munster have managed to make a break on to the world scene. is eddie o sullivan the man to bring success to irish rugby??(and i dont mean winning a trip crown against a poor englisk side, a grand slam or dare i say it, a WC)

daveirl

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RuggieBear

eddie jones?
jake white?

toomevara

Yep, I would say he's doing a job, but its no more than that,adequate at best. His conservatism is both his Achilles heel and paradoxically, from an IRFU point of view, his strongest selling point. He's a safe pair of hands and a good man/ media manager (recent NZ spat nothwithstanding).

He's built up a core squad which can, on their day, compete with the major rugby nations. But, and its a big but, under EOS, I dont see us progressing any further. The leap to the big league remains as elusive and unlikely as ever. we've got him till the WC, thats pretty much a fait accompli (barring unforseen circumstances) but I think we should be thinking about his replacement already.

Homegrown...Bradley seems an obvious choice, Michael Cheika, assuming he stays with leinster will have a considerable feel for Irish rugby by then, and that guy has a serious rugby brain....Eddie Jones? Guy Noves? Declan Kidney? Who knows but with EOS we'll plod on through a solid but uninspired 'Nearly' autumn series, ditto the 6N and perhaps a WC quarter final.....

toomevara

RuggieBear wrote:

eddie jones?
jake white?

Look like the RFU are moving for White. Smart move?

youthacademy

daveirl wrote:

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The point is, should we be looking for an alternative...who ever that my be, can we be the best in the world with o'sullivan at the helm?
with the talent we have in the backline, we should be playing the kind if modern dynamic rugby that the likes of NZ is playing....

RuggieBear

toomevara wrote:

Look like the RFU are moving for White. Smart move?

i always find it hard to tell how good some of these coaches are considering the unbelievably good players they had to coach....

toomevara

excellent point...and precisely why I like Bradley who regularly makes the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear in connacht, its definitely an exacting coaching apprenticeship.....

Morgans

I dont think we have the out-half to get the backline flying a la NZ. EOS is probably a little too conservative for Ireland's good, but O'Gara isnt Dan Carter, McAllister. I think I'd have Hodgson ahead of him, being honest.

RuggieBear

toomevara wrote:

excellent point...and precisely why I like Bradley who regularly makes the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear in connacht, its definitely an exacting coaching apprenticeship.....

i'd give him munster, leinster or ulster before i threw him at the ireland job....let's see if he can actually coach at a proper level.

imo Connacht should not be coming last in the Celtic league.

RuggieBear

Morgans wrote:

I dont think we have the out-half to get the backline flying a la NZ. EOS is probably a little too conservative for Ireland's good, but O'Gara isnt Dan Carter, McAllister. I think I'd have Hodgson ahead of him, being honest.

hodgeson has the skills to be the best outhalf in the world (with maybe the exception of carter) but he is too flakey

Morgans

I understand, but I think O'Gara has a flakiness factor and weak in the tackle defensively. Good out-half behind a pack winning the ball, but no better.

toomevara

RuggieBear wrote:

hodgeson has the skills to be the best outhalf in the world (with maybe the exception of carter) but he is too flakey

Never rated him because of suspect psychology...is the pick of the english though

youthacademy

o gara is definitly poor defensivly, this was exposed in the first test against NZ, dont know if you saw it, but for the last try for NZ(whoever got it,i aint sure) walked through o gara without breaking his stride.
o'driscol obviouly has no confidence in o garas defensive abilities as he was comin accross to cover him before o garas attempted hit

TarfHead

youthacademy wrote:

o gara is definitly poor defensivly,
o'driscol obviouly has no confidence in o garas defensive abilities as he was comin accross to cover him before o garas attempted hit

ROG's failings as a tackler is just bad technique. Which, as a professional, can be learned and practised. Yet McAllister knew that if he ran hard at ROG he could, at worst, ride the tackle and complete the off-load.

But it is not EOS's job to teach ROG how to tackle. Kidney/Gaffney/Kidney have sought other solutions, such as assigning one of the back-row to double up with ROG on defence.

Until this is addressed, it doesn't matter what defensive system you use. It can only ever be as strong as it's weakest point and that is ROG ( or John Hayes at pillar).

daveirl

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youthacademy

daveirl wrote:

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i'm not too familiar with bradley, but there the only amantur team in the celtic league as far as i'm aware? i agree he must be tried at munster/ulster/or leinster before hes considered for a national coach.
perhaps someone with i southern hemisphere flavour might suit the bill, cheika could do with a few more seasons at provincial level before he is considered

RuggieBear

they are not amateur.

toomevara

daveirl wrote:

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Hadn't heard anything about falling out with players, you've obviously got the inside track on that one...but thats pretty commonplace in all Irish squads. That aside think the reasons for connacht's failure run alot deeper than the coach. Zero resources, **** all cash, limited local support and half hearted backing from the IRFU have more to do with Connachts treading water than Bradley IMHO....

Crash

My personal thought would be to give cheika next year at leinster and see how far they advance - I'd like to see him come into the Ireland set up provided that we can be sure of some continuity in Leinster first, and make sure that he really is up to scratch.

daveirl

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toomevara

too true daveirl re: tight defeats, way too many this season, and the last for that matter....but...and maybe i'm just reaching here, we could look at it in a glass half full kind of way and say they're almost there....plus a major problem for them is that any half decent players are cherry picked by other provinces or the premiership. Bracken I thought a case in point, but maybe other reasons for departure then....

Must be a nightmare in terms of squad cohesion. If they're going to be a development province, then make it official, and back it to the hilt. Look at what the aussies, masters of maximising limited rugby resources, are doing with the Western Force, taking rugby into an aussie rules area with a vengeance, and backing them up with money and resources while not expecting miracles. The long term benefits to Oz rugby can only be good......

Amazotheamazing

Bradley has done nothing to deserve the Irish job, if anything Connacht have massively underachieved in his tenure. For Connacht to get HEC rugby this year all they had to do was finish 3rd from the bottom of the league, hardly a massive achievement and yet one they've stunningly failed to do.

His crazy player policy means a player might be outhalf one week, fullback the next, inside centre, dropped, back to centre, tried on the wing, and finally put back to outhalf, how the hell does a team build any continuty with such a crazy policy, not to mention his bizarre use of scrumhalve, for instance, one scrumhalf is having a great game but come 60 minutes Bradley's policy is to sub him for a guy who was playing wing for his previous 5 games or somesuch. If Bradley was put in chrage of one of the "popular" provinces and he tried that stuff, he'd be gone by Christmas.

Tyrone Boy

youthacademy wrote:

For the last number of years, despite irelands talent, we've only 'almost' been a great team. even munster have managed to make a break on to the world scene. is eddie o sullivan the man to bring success to irish rugby??(and i dont mean winning a trip crown against a poor englisk side, a grand slam or dare i say it, a WC)

Maybe the George Hook/Eddie O'Sullivan partnership should be reunited

In fairness when they managed Connacht there was a bit more success in that there were a lot of the players brought onto the international scene. Different times though.

I think what EOS needs is a new assistant manager, not neccessarily a great rugby brain but a man who'll give him a good slap on the head when he does something stupid like not bringing in certain players on tours or no substitutions until the 70th minute for example.
Or when he says somethin like "We lost because we just couldn't get our hands on the football." :rolleyes: One thing i will say is that he is an excellent backs coach and has brought some memorable times like beatin South Africa, Triple crowns, etc. There's a lot worse out there - Andy Robinson

RuggieBear

He was an excellent backs coach.

Tyrone Boy

RuggieBear wrote:

He was an excellent backs coach.

We should all be like the Munster fans, where everyone involved in their rugby are "Ledddgends"! Maybe thats what Ireland need - the sixteenth man. Anywho you'll not win a pile without a pack and unless EOS can pull on an ireland jersey and play one half of a match at tighthead then there's not a pile he can do.

Trojan

I'm disappointed with Connacht this season, but I've lost touch with the local scene so don't really have an opinion on Bradley in that regard.

As to EOS, I just don't see him as the brilliant coach we thought he was when he was hired. He seems very close-minded, even criminally conservative.

I'd rather see EOS go, and a risk taker found. We're not going to win RWC07 with a conservative approach, but with this bunch of players and a brilliant coach it's possible. Unfortunately, as people have mentioned, it's far, far too late for a coach to come in.

daveirl wrote:

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SCW.

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

SCW.

if i could ban you for that suggestion... i would;)

Trojan

Peadar, what's even worse is that I'm deadly, deadly serious.

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

Peadar, what's even worse is that I'm deadly, deadly serious.

i know.:eek:

But imo he was shown up for the charlatan he is by the lions tour (although the poor showing was not entirely his fault)

Trojan

Yeah, definitely the Lions tour was a major black mark. I was by no means his biggest fan at the time - selection was a major issue there.

But I don't think he'd be as conservative as EOS with an Ireland squad - he's no links or back history, and he's not afraid of change.

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

Yeah, definitely the Lions tour was a major black mark. I was by no means his biggest fan at the time - selection was a major issue there.

But I don't think he'd be as conservative as EOS with an Ireland squad - he's no links or back history, and he's not afraid of change.

if he thought the RFU were backward and conservative, there is no way he'd last within the IRFU.

he made bod his captain....there's a link.

Stop it Al, you are giving me palpatations over here:D