No BBC radio in Irish EPG

Lennoxschips

I was surprised to see that there is no BBC Radio on the Irish EPG, and that it has to be accessed via the other channels. Does anybody know why this is so? Surely there are no rights issues as far as the likes of BBC 6 Music or Radio 3 is concerned?

If only there was a legal Sky CAM...

L1011

Because Sky would have to pay the BBC to put them there and don't feel its worth it. Similar for 3/4/News/Parliament/CBBC/CBeebies

watty

If you do the remove card while in Sky Interactive, backup then the bbc radio are there.

You need no CAM or card to get all the BBC & ITV. They reappear from hiddeness with a Sky Digibox with no card.

Sky charge a huge amount for EPG. In reality it should be free. Ireland is extra cost and UK broadcasters esp PSB can't justify the extra charge.

Sky pay BBC for BBC1NI and BBC2 NI on Irish EPG!

Zaphod

watty wrote:

Sky charge a huge amount for EPG.

"Everything we’ve ever done is about giving people choices” - R. Murdoch
http://wired.com/wired/archive/14.07/murdoch.html

pH

MYOB wrote:

Because Sky would have to pay the BBC to put them there and don't feel its worth it. Similar for 3/4/News/Parliament/CBBC/CBeebies

I fail to understand this, when BBC/ITV are broadcasting FTA

Why should Sky 'pay to put them there' ie on the EPG?

Putting a FTA channel on the epg actually corresponds to 2 things :

- Having the box know what frequency/details the FTA channel broadcasts on (as opposed to the user searching for it or entering it in)

- Providing a 7 day program guide.

Which of those things does Sky have to pay BBC for? There are epgs like Digiguide out there, and other PVR/PC solutions come with predefined channel lists so what exactly is Sky saying that they can't do? What rules or legislation are they saying stops them?

If I sold a PC with a sat card which had the BBC freqs stored in it's PVR software and included a subscription to digiguide - can the BBC stop me?

DMC

Historical reasons.

The BBC deal to get BBC 1 and 2 NI happened in the early days of Sky Digital over here, when they reduced the price and Eircom Stores resold it for a time.

It was a driver to get people onto Sky Digital, Sky saw it as that. Much like offering to pay for RTÉ's encryption and EPG costs a year or two later.

pH

When BBC/ITV was encrypted then those historical reasons stood. But today they don't.

I think that Sky are refusing to put these channels on the EPG because of their own commercial reasons. There's nothing the BBC/ITV could do really to stop Sky providing us with a receiver that knows the frequency of the FTA transmissions.

In their preferred arrangement, Sky charge the broadcasters to be on the EPG and charge us to watch those broadcasters. Yes some annomalies (like BBC1/BBC2 and RTE) have happened to this business model, but the basic model is to make money off the broadcasters AND the subscribers.

Sky don't want to set a precedent by adding channels 'for free' to the EPG, as they feel that the additional revenue (from additional customers) would be offset with other broadcasters demanding free placing on the EPG.

L1011

The BBC haven't given Sky permission to put anything other than 1NI/2NI on the EPG here, so theres everything they could do to stop them - their entire EPG carraige contract for a start.

You seem to have got this backwards, the BBC won't let Sky add the channels "for free", they wil only let them get added if Sky pay the BBC for them.

pH

You continue to use the phrase 'On the EPG' as if it has meaning in it's own right

Which of these are you saying that Sky need BBC's permission to do :

- Provide (the publicly available) details of the FTA broadcast (freq/polarity ect)
- Or provide an electronic TV guide - (the provision of TV schedules has already been mired in controversy over the years, but my understanding at the moment is that broadcasters can't prevent someone else publishing their schedule)

L1011

Sky can provide the details to tune it in, providing the TV guide would be breaking copyright laws. And how does Sky giving you the frequencies make it any different to tuning it in yourself?

byte

Not much of a problem adding the Radio to other channels.

You'll not miss a 7-day listing, because there isn't one for radio. I really miss this additional info for radio, but that's another debate!

The only info for radio, is what's on now, and a synopsys.

pH

MYOB wrote:

Sky can provide the details to tune it in, providing the TV guide would be breaking copyright laws.

Actually the UKs broadcasting act says the opposite, that any UK broadcaster must make their TV schedule available to "any person wishing to publish". Granted this is for the UK, but the TV schedules are not copyrightable.

And how does Sky giving you the frequencies make it any different to tuning it in yourself?

None that I can see, what's your point? As I said before I don't understand what you mean by 'On the EPG'. To me the EPG is just a predefined list of channels and a 7 day guide.

BBC/ITV are not on the ROI EPG because they won't pay Sky, and Sky won't put them on 'for free' as a service to it's Irish subscribers.

L1011

No, its the other way around. The BBC and ITV have refused Sky permission to be on the Irish EPG, ITV in its entirity; and BBC only if Sky pay for it. If Sky "put them on for free" they'd be sued to bejaysus and possibly lose their licence.

Lennoxschips

when i say "i wish there was a sky cam" it's because it would mean i could have a CI box with a list of the 12 or so channels on sky that i want numbered 1-12, withouth their bloody EPG.

the EPG is overcrowded with stuff i don't want, inflexible and it's sky's attempt at controlling what we see.

there really should be an option for turning it off and creating your own list of channels.

The BBC and ITV have refused Sky permission to be on the Irish EPG, ITV in its entirity; and BBC only if Sky pay for it. If Sky "put them on for free" they'd be sued to bejaysus and possibly lose their licence.

if this is true, then good for the BBC. if Sky are charging people an arm and a leg for the right to be in some monopolised list of channels, then the BBC should do the same thing right back at them

L1011

Irish subscriptions are surcharged, erm, I think it was originally IE£3 a month for the two BBC channels because thats what Sky has to pay for them. They haven't hiked ours as much recently, so they're slowly absorbing it back, but they do have to pay the BBC that.

pH

MYOB wrote:

No, its the other way around. The BBC and ITV have refused Sky permission to be on the Irish EPG, ITV in its entirity; and BBC only if Sky pay for it. If Sky "put them on for free" they'd be sued to bejaysus and possibly lose their licence.

How about posting that again without using the words 'On the EPG'.

What exactly are you saying Sky can't do (for Irish subscribers) with BBCs and ITVs FTA transmissions?

Mossy Monk

what Sky cant do is stump up the cash for these channels to be placed on the EPG. shows how much they really care for their subscribers

dont expect ITV on the EPG anytime soon as TV3 are bringing them to court