Roundabout Crash Advice

bkehoe

Hi,
Never thought I'd be looking for advice regarding a crash, but I suppose it had to happen sometime!

Anyway, this is what happened:

I was entering a small (not a really mini roundabout, but not large either, but only capable of one lane of traffic), and was proceding around to the second exit (from my perspective) when a driver entering the roundabout from the first exit failed to stop and drove out in front of me.

As he entered the roundabout, I was turned at aroound 30 degrees away from the direction he was coming from, so didnt see him till it was too late. If the road hadnt to have been wet, I would probably have stopped in time.

I hit his front wing/drivers door at probably 1 or 2MPH. He was still moving after I stopped, as the force of his motion ripped my bumper outwards and forced it towards the drivers side, putting several gashes in it.

There was no traffic coming from my right when I entered the roundabout, and as I entered, I saw he was around 30 - 50M away from the roundabout, and assumed he was yeilding like he should have been doing. I proceded at around 10MPH and as I passed the first exit, I suddenly realised that he hadnt stopped, and immediatly applied the brakes but I was just a meter or so away from him at this stage.

At the time he admitted full responsibility and liability, wanting to settle the claim himself rather than go through his insurance. The Garda attended the scene and took notes, and told me they had taken note of the fact he was admitting responsibility and liability.

On Monday (accident happened on Sunday), I rang my insurance company and gave them all the details, so that there would be a record in case anything went wrong. A claim form arrived from them today.

Today I got an estimate for repairs (around €2k), and rang him tonight. After I told him the cost (up to this stage everything seemed to be going fine), he then went on to say that he wouldnt be paying it, and that he had already told his insurance company of the accident and that they had told him to change his story and claim that I was at fault. At this point he offered to forget the matter if I paid for my own repairs. I said he was having a laugh, and then tried to reason with him, going over the sequence of events, but all he could say were things like why didnt I flash my lights at him or blow my horn, or anticipate that he wasn't going to stop. He also tried to claim that he was on the roundabout before me - which is impossible, as I had travelled half way around the roundabout already. My point back was if you were to anticipate that everybody wouldnt yield at a roundabout and not enter as a result, that nobody would go anywhere! Anyway, there was no reasoning with him and eventually finished our conversation (he was perfectly calm, no bad attitude, etc, it was quite a civilised conversation).

So, where do I go from here? I have several pictures of the scene which clearly show that I was on the roundabout before him. There were 4 garda at the scene. At the time the Garda told me that he had noted that the other guy was admitting responsibility. However, all the garda knew the other guy and were telling me things like "x is sound, he'll sort you out no problem", etc. While I was talking to the other guy tonight, when I said that the garda had taken note of the fact he was in the wrong, he replied with "maybe so". I don't like the way this is sounding to be honest. I tried ringing the station tonight to see when the garda who took all the details would be in and he won't be in untill Friday night. I was basically wanting to confirm that he had noted that the other guy was wrong, and I was wanting to see if I could get a copy of the accident report (is this possible?) for my own records.

His insurance company has not contacted me yet. Should I contact them in order to speed things up and email them the pictures, drawings, etc, or should I contact the claim handler at my insurance company and make a claim through mine? I was hoping to get things sorted and repaired quickly, so is there any chance of his insurance company backing down and paying for my repairs once they see pictures?

I've attached a simple drawing of the scene. Any opinions would be much apprecieated. I've never had an accident before, and it's been really upsetting, especially now that the other guy has changed his mind.

Thanks,
Brendan.

jhegarty

the crash was on a roundabout where you had right away.... even if he got there first he still had to get out of your way..... 100% his fault , case closed....


he is only trying to pull a fast one...

Savman

This is gas. The guy is 100000% at fault, I've seen so many near misses at these small roundabouts in housing estates that nobody bothers yielding at :eek::eek:

best thing to do is let your insurance company deal with it, give them all the evidence you have and be very specific (careful about quoting the guards or anyone else unless you're sure) but its a good thing coppers were there.

I'd say that eventually his insurance will have to pay up (do insurance companies encourage their clients to "change their story"??? bleedin doubt it :rolleyes:) so do it all by the book and dont contact the fella directly in case it gets real messy later. I mean if its only €2k its not the end of the world for him claims wise...

jhegarty

Savman wrote:

100000% at fault

sorry my maths where off , 100000% is correct...

unkel

Indeed, it is impossible for you to be at fault. Let the insurance companies handle it, but insist you be kept in the loop. Insurance companies can take funny actions - keep your eye on them. Amazing that the guards were involved, they usually don't get involved in accidents where there is no injury. No harm trying to contact the Garda you were talking to on Friday though

seamus

The general rule of roundabouts is that you must give way to traffic already on the roundabout. Since it perfectly obvious that you were on the roundabout before he was, he hasn't a leg to stand on.

I very much doubt that an insurance company would advise him to "change his story". Sounds like he's attempting to intimidate you into backing down or reducing the cost of the repairs.

Do as unkel says. I would make contacting the Garda a priority, both to confirm that he has the other party's admission of fault and also possibly report his claim that the insurance company were telling him to lie. I'm not sure if you can get a copy of the accident report, though I know the insurance company can. Get to know the guy who will be handling the claim in the insurance company, and ring him once a day for an update.

How come so many people are trying to settle their crashes "out of insurance" these days? Is this a symptom of modern Ireland? "I'll pay €4k repair costs, I just don't want my premium to go up by €500 next year".

Wishbone Ash

As other posters have said, stand your ground. He is just trying to pull a fast one. He admitted liability at the scene. This was foolish on his part. He now realises this after discussing the matter with family and friends. I would also doubt that his insurance company told him to cahange his story. They have probably asked him if he admitted liability at the scene and he has denied that he did. Now he is worried.

Like unkel, I am also amazed that the Gardaí were in attendance. In the Dublin area, it is very difficult to get Gardaí to attend the scene of a 'material damage' only accident. They prefer to let the insurance companies sort it out, unless they witness the accident themselves or it is causing major traffic disruption. At least the Garda has included the admission of liability in his notes. Try to maintain contact with him. Ask him for a contact card - some Gardaí will include their mobile number which may be useful.

Good Luck - let us know how you get on.

bkehoe

It happened in a fairly quiet town in the North West. They were probably delighted at the chance to put on their sirens.

So nobody sees any point in ringing his insurance company to 'report the accident' (in case he actually hasnt, and was just making up what he told me) and/or put my point across to them and supply pictures/drawings?

So the best course of action would be just to put in the claim with my insurance and let them deal with it. I'm not sure if it'll be a problem, though I will be transferring my policy permanently onto a significantly higher value vehicle than what I'm now on in a few weeks and will probably have to pay an increased premium - will an outstanding claim affect this?

Thanks for the advice,
Brendan.

Wishbone Ash

bkehoe wrote:

It happened in a fairly quiet town in the North West. They were probably delighted at the chance to put on their sirens.

So nobody sees any point in ringing his insurance company to 'report the accident' (in case he actually hasnt, and was just making up what he told me) and/or put my point across to them and supply pictures/drawings?

So the best course of action would be just to put in the claim with my insurance and let them deal with it. I'm not sure if it'll be a problem, though I will be transferring my policy permanently onto a significantly higher value vehicle than what I'm now on in a few weeks and will probably have to pay an increased premium - will an outstanding claim affect this?

Thanks for the advice,
Brendan.

Leave it with your insurance company IMO. I wouldn't worry too much about the increased value of the replacement vehicle as most of the insurance costs are assessed on the damage you could do to a third party - not on the value of your vehicle. The costs of repairing or replacing a vehicle are minimal in comparision.

Henry Ford III

The other driver is liable. No contest.

One question though. How could a 1 or 2 mph impact cause €2000 worth of damage?

dudara

Bumpers are designed on modern cars to tear away, absorb damage etc. They can also be quite expensive to replace, especially if colour-coded. Add in labour and it could quite well be that expensive.

Wishbone Ash

Henry Ford III wrote:

The other driver is liable. No contest.

One question though. How could a 1 or 2 mph impact cause €2000 worth of damage?

The other car's speed?

bkehoe

The whole front bumper needs replacing (approx €400). The most expensive part is a Xenon headlight (almost €600) as it has been scratched and seems to be letting in moisture. 2 foglights needed as well, as the sideways motion of the bumper ripped their mountings off. Bumper is colour coded, so spraying and labour is approx €500. Add in the clips, the parking sensor that was swept off, the VAT, and you've got €2k.

Big Nelly

Ring the Garda! end of story!

bkehoe

I impacted his car on the wing just behind the front wheel. He was still moving didnt stop until my bumper was half way down his drivers door. The hinges holding his door on caused two nasty looking rips in the plastic on my bumper. The end result being that my bumper was pulled out (away from me), which imho shows he was moving after I had stopped. If I had to be driving into him and he stopped, then my bumper would have been pushed inwards, but tbh if he had been stopped, I wouldn't have expected mine to have any noticable damage.

Bluetonic

Henry Ford III wrote:

One question though. How could a 1 or 2 mph impact cause €2000 worth of damage?

OP wrote:

I hit his front wing/drivers door at probably 1 or 2MPH. He was still moving after I stopped, as the force of his motion ripped my bumper outwards and forced it towards the drivers side, putting several gashes in it.

The impact wasn't 1/2 mph. He never mention how fast the other car was travelling away/into him.

Savman

bkehoe wrote:

The end result being that my bumper was pulled out (away from me), which imho shows he was moving after I had stopped.

Sounds like a moron :rolleyes:
Probably lying too, keep us posted :D

SouperComputer

sounds like the guy is trying to play hardball after talking to others. Two can play that game, call his bluff:

1. Get in touch with the Garda.
2. Contact HIS insurance company directly and make a claim against his policy.
3. Proceed to laugh at his ass

layke

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine under Quinn direct. She admited liability and then the insurance company started giving out to her about it.

She told them to go an shi*e. she was honest enough to tell quinn where to shove it.

Wishbone Ash

layke wrote:

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine under Quinn direct. She admited liability and then the insurance company started giving out to her about it.

She told them to go an shi*e. she was honest enough to tell quinn where to shove it.

Quinn Direct were entitled to be annoyed about it - she has appointed them to handle her insurance. Even if you are blatantly in the wrong you shouldn't admit anything at the scene. It causes difficulties if the 'victim' begins to make extra dodgy claims as liability has been admitted.

Exchange details and leave the rest to the Insurance companies.

oleras

I would advise, through personal experience, go through your own insurance company and let them recoup the loss from his insurance company, i am sure a lot of people are unaware that if you take a settlement from his insurance you are taking a full and final settlement, for everything, damage to car, loss or earnings, if any, inconvience and although not evident in this case any personal injuries.

oleras.

kluivert

Exactly what is wrong with this country. Attitudes of people is a joke, the OP was in the right and the other eejit trys to pull a fast one. If you do something wrong admit responsiblility, in my opinion he should be banned for a year for that, for not admitting responsibility and paying out.

I read your OP and wasnt slightly surprised when he changed his story.

Just out of curiousity, how old was he?

I bet he wasnt under 25 years of age.

Wishbone Ash

kluivert wrote:

Exactly what is wrong with this country. Attitudes of people is a joke, the OP was in the right and the other eejit trys to pull a fast one. If you do something wrong admit responsiblility, in my opinion he should be banned for a year for that, for not admitting responsibility and paying out.

I read your OP and wasnt slightly surprised when he changed his story.

Just out of curiousity, how old was he?

I bet he wasnt under 25 years of age.

Insurance companies always advise that liability should never be admitted at the scene of an accident (read your policy). There are several reasons for this the obvious one being that you may be in shock and unaware of it.

conor_mc

kluivert wrote:

I bet he wasnt under 25 years of age.

Of course not, guards don't like people under 25!!!!

slade_x

seamus wrote:

How come so many people are trying to settle their crashes "out of insurance" these days? Is this a symptom of modern Ireland? "I'll pay €4k repair costs, I just don't want my premium to go up by €500 next year".

It makes the insurance companies even more profitable as a result.

seamus

bkehoe wrote:

I'm not sure if it'll be a problem, though I will be transferring my policy permanently onto a significantly higher value vehicle than what I'm now on in a few weeks and will probably have to pay an increased premium - will an outstanding claim affect this?

There's a good chance they will suspend your NCB until the claim is fully settled, regardless of how much in the right you are.

You'll have to ask them when you report the claim.

kluivert

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Insurance companies always advise that liability should never be admitted at the scene of an accident (read your policy). There are several reasons for this the obvious one being that you may be in shock and unaware of it.

Given the OP's circumstances I have it hard to prove him wrong. Therefore based on that, I would have to agree, like many others have also done, that it was not the OP's fault and that the driver who cause the accident should really have stuck to his story, and not try and pull a fast one.

If there was any doubt about the circumstances to an accident then neither party should agrue over it, rather let the Garda's work it out from the (non-bias) statements from each party involved.

However if you where parked at red traffic lights and I failed to brake and ran into the back of your car, I would be inclined to accept responsibility as it was my fault and not say something like "according to my insurance policy I am not obilgied to acceptance responsibility as I maybe in shock at this time".

I understand your point but given the circumstances I dont think that there is any agrument as to who was at fault here in the OP.

Bards

I was in a similiar situation and rang the Insurance Federation of Ireland.. told them the story.. Gardai were at scene he admitted liability to the guards and myself. Insurance Co. was giving me the runaround.

The person I spoke to in the IFI said that if it wasn't resolved in a week or so to give them a ring again as they can put pressure on their member.

I handed it over to my garage as I was going on holiday.. When I came back everything was sorted.

Vegeta

kluivert wrote:

Given the OP's circumstances I have it hard to prove him wrong. Therefore based on that, I would have to agree, like many others have also done, that it was not the OP's fault and that the driver who cause the accident should really have stuck to his story, and not try and pull a fast one.

If there was any doubt about the circumstances to an accident then neither party should agrue over it, rather let the Garda's work it out from the (non-bias) statements from each party involved.

However if you where parked at red traffic lights and I failed to brake and ran into the back of your car, I would be inclined to accept responsibility as it was my fault and not say something like "according to my insurance policy I am not obilgied to acceptance responsibility as I maybe in shock at this time".

I understand your point but given the circumstances I dont think that there is any agrument as to who was at fault here in the OP.

There is nothing wrong with saying sorry, you could get out of the car and be like sorry bout that. You don't have to claim responsibility to say sorry

mike65

bkehoe wrote:

I'm not sure if it'll be a problem, though I will be transferring my policy permanently onto a significantly higher value vehicle than what I'm now on in a few weeks and will probably have to pay an increased premium - will an outstanding claim affect this?

I got swiped by a small lorry years ago I was the innocent party but when the insurance renewal came round the NCB was lost until the court case was settled a few months later.

Mike.