Defying court order

LegacyUser

What would happen to a mother if she defied a court order regarding access.

If the judge has ruled that the father should have more access but she believes this will be damaging to the child and the child doesnt want it.

Would she be sent to jail?

Beruthiel

You cannot defy a court order, I cannot say whither you will go to jail or not but it will not be ignored by the court. Get yourself a solicitor.
Do you not think that every child has a right to know their father?
I do not know your circumstances or what this man is like, but it would seem he needs to keep in touch with his child, how is that a bad thing?

LegacyUser

I know a couple where the mother has a court order against her denying access to the children (at least in the family home anyway) but she doesn't pay any attention to the order. She's always coming into the house whether the dad is there or not and nothing lawful ever happens.

It really depends on whether the dad is serious about the order or not. I think in the case I mentioned, the parents were just being petty with eachother (which is common enough) and silly in getting the order in the first place.

So, after all that spiel, the point is court orders aren't neccesarilly enforced unless the person who got the order in the first place is serious about having it enforced

Ph3n0m

Have to agree with B here.

1. Dont defy the court order, you must consult a solicitor to see what your options are.

2. Chances are you will have to prove that these visits are "damaging" to the child - unless there is something seriously wrong, I dont see how a visit could be damaging.

3. I will have to point out - that if this just stems from bad blood between you and the father - stop using your child as a weapon - that is literally one of the cruelest things to do - to the child and your former partner

4. Speaking as a father who has gone to court to get it written down that I have visitation, etc - please for the child in question - do it legally, professionally and most of all without a sense of public bitterness - as that too will reflect on the child. All too often I have seen and heard absolute hatred coming from a child's mouth about something they cannot possibly comprehend

LegacyUser

Please dont cast judgement. I am not about to give any details whatsoever but I assure you this is not about bitterness or anything like that.

Dont read your own situation into this. You dont have any facts so cant make an informed judgement.


He will see his father just not as regularly as the judge has ordered.

All I need to know is what will happen.

Beruthiel

Unregd Guest wrote:

He will see his father just not as regularly as the judge has ordered.

All I need to know is what will happen.

As said above
That will be up to your ex and the judge - no one here can answer you.
Get a solicitor.

Elessar

Of course he can contest your non compliance with the order and have it re-instated. If you do not comply with the court, legal measures can be taken against you, be aware of that. Talk to your solicitor.

I have no idea why a mother would not allow a father to see his child, even after being told to do so by court. Then again, I cant understand why so many people have to go through the legal system to contest access to children, instead of handling it like mature adults.

Chalk another one up against having kids!

Nevyn

If the child is experiencing difficulty maybe they need some help and couselling.
There are several places that could be of help so that the child has a netural person to talk to for themself about thier feelings and what is going on.

If the child is distressed about having to spend time with a parent I can understand that it can be hard to force the child to do so esp if they are distrubed and acting out afterwards.

Children do need for the most part contact with both thier parents and at times this can be very difficult and stressful but it is something the parents hopefully can work on together.

I would suggest couselling or play therapy for the child and mediation for the parents to sort out a parenting plan.

NUTLEY BOY

Ignoring court orders in any type of litigation is always a bad idea for two reasons ;

1. It is an act of contempt. This is an additional legal complication that you create for yourself. Acts of contempt put you in to direct conflict with the court whose orders have been ignored or frustrated.

2. If there are likely to be additional future proceedings or reviews relating to the same matter the act of contempt could be used against you as proof of your inability to comply with court orders. This could act to your detriment in future proceedings.

Get prompt and proper legal advice from a solicitor on the right way to deal with this before it gets out of control.

Amazotheamazing

It's not up to you to decide how a child should see his father, once a court has ruled otherwise. If you've a problem with an existing order, go to a solicitor and go about changing it. Courts will not view you favourably if you decide to ignore them.

dermot_sheehan

Unregd Guest wrote:

Please dont cast judgement. I am not about to give any details whatsoever but I assure you this is not about bitterness or anything like that.

Dont read your own situation into this. You dont have any facts so cant make an informed judgement.


He will see his father just not as regularly as the judge has ordered.

All I need to know is what will happen.

It's impossible for us to predict with certainty what will happen, can only say what is possible.
The father can apply (through his solicitor) to the court to have a person violating a court order jailed. You could be sitting in prison until you obey the order.
I don't know what propensity Circuit Court judges have in this jurisidiction to jail contemptors in custody disputes, since family cases are heard behind closed doors. You can also be fined for contempt.

The court could also decide to revist the order granting custody, and amend it, granting custody to the other parent and giving you visitation rights.

The court could equally do nothing or delve out harsh language.

The court when awarding custody and visitation rights is obliged to look for the best interests of the child which generally includes access to their father. If you feel this is not in the best interests of the child, you can apply to have the order amended (best to supply evidence why not though). By denying access you are not denying the father's right to see their child (since no such right exists), rather you are denying the child's right to see their natural father.

[Jackass]

If all you want to know is what will happen then no, you cannot go to jail for breaching this court order as it is a civil matter, but, on the other hand, the father will have the right of access as proposed by the court and can have it enforced if you don't co-operate by calling the gaurds and having a supervised removal of the child to fullfill his visitation rights.

If you put up a big enough fight if this happens, then yes, you could be arrested for breach of the peace or some other BS charge, I doubt it would land you in court, if it did, you'd only get a slap on the wrist.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT: Should you defy the court order, there's a dispute, the guards get involved, you are generally causing a nuassance in the situation, he can bring YOU to court and depending on the severity, he may get MORE access or ALL access if you are acting irresponsible infront of your child, defying the court and causing domestic disputes, again, depending on the severity.

The bottom line is, if you have any interest in defying the courts order, the only way to do it is through an objection or appeal, so you better find a solicitor, but in all honesty, if you have no grounds for appeal and he's already been granted this access there's no way they will change it unless you have evidence of any wrong doing or reason he shouldn't be around the child (garda reports of violent behaviour, domestic issues, social services recommendation).

Best of luck.

dermot_sheehan

DubGuy wrote:

If all you want to know is what will happen then no, you cannot go to jail for breaching this court order as it is a civil matter, but, on the other hand, the father will have the right of access as proposed by the court and can have it enforced if you don't co-operate by calling the gaurds and having a supervised removal of the child to fullfill his visitation rights.

Sorry but this is simply wrong. Violate a court order, and you can be sent to prison on a civil contempt warrant. You're detained until you purge your contempt (i.e. indefinite detention). You can also be fined an unlimited amount. Every court of record in Ireland (District, Circuit, High, Supreme, Court of Criminal Appeal, Court Martial Court of Appeal and Special Criminal Court) has the power to do this. The European Court of Justice also has the power to request the High Court detain a contempting Irish Citizen.

EPO_MAN

Unregd Guest wrote:

Please dont cast judgement. I am not about to give any details whatsoever but I assure you this is not about bitterness or anything like that.

Dont read your own situation into this. You dont have any facts so cant make an informed judgement.


He will see his father just not as regularly as the judge has ordered.

All I need to know is what will happen.

It's impossible for me not to cast judgement on you. You have set yourself the right to deny the father the access granted to him.
What gives you the right?

You say I don't have all the facts - too true...but did the court not have all the facts at the time of the order? Did the court didn't believe the facts?

You have judged the dad yourself....as a dad myself I have nothing for contempt for women like you.

EPO_MAN

gabhain7 wrote:

By denying access you are not denying the father's right to see their child (since no such right exists)

I believe they do if the couple are/were married.

I agree with your other point about denying the child their rights to see their dad....this could effect the child later in life

Amazotheamazing

But does a child's right to see hii/her father exist?

dudara

I feel that this thread is more suited to Legal Discussion. Therefore I am moving it.

Eru

gabhain7 wrote:

Sorry but this is simply wrong. Violate a court order, and you can be sent to prison on a civil contempt warrant. You're detained until you purge your contempt (i.e. indefinite detention). You can also be fined an unlimited amount. Every court of record in Ireland (District, Circuit, High, Supreme, Court of Criminal Appeal, Court Martial Court of Appeal and Special Criminal Court) has the power to do this. The European Court of Justice also has the power to request the High Court detain a contempting Irish Citizen.

Good call Gabhain.

EPO_MAN wrote:

You have judged the dad yourself....as a dad myself I have nothing for contempt for women like you.

I agree for the simple reason that no reason for his access being harmful has been given and if hes capable of some access why not more?

focusing

That's right. Whoever said you can't be held in contempt in a civil matter is just wrong.

Prison is rarely used in family cases though, unless there's a repeated breech.

But remember, the judge will hold your breech of their order against you for every future hearing in your case. You'll have very little sympathy from them in future.

Most importantly, by breaking the order, you're doing something an experienced and independent judge thought was bad for your child. Your child isn't a tactical advantage in your personal spats.

pred racer

all you have to do is invent excuses, ie he is sick, he is at soccer practice etc etc etc, and there is nothing that can be done.

Happening to my mate at the mo, 3 visits to court and still no access even though the judge has ordered her to allow it.

Sleipnir

In extreme cases, the person with the court order can call the Gardai out if denied access. They enforce the law which, in this case, happens to be a court order.
Or, he can go back to court and say that the court order is not being complied with. Then they judge will probably again direct you to comply. Non-compliance could result in an arrest but I seriously doubt the Gardai would ever do that. Unless a warrant was issued by the courts (which I doubt would happen either!)

focusing

You have to go back to court to get them jailled for refusing to comply.

eaglej13

Sleipnir wrote: »

In extreme cases, the person with the court order can call the Gardai out if denied access. They enforce the law which, in this case, happens to be a court order.
garda have very limited power enforcing these orders, big grey area....

NoQuarter

eaglej13 wrote: »

Sleipnir wrote: »

In extreme cases, the person with the court order can call the Gardai out if denied access. They enforce the law which, in this case, happens to be a court order.
garda have very limited power enforcing these orders, big grey area....

Maybe the law was clearer.....SIX YEARS AGO.... when he posted that!!

Procrastastudy

Boards.ie should introduce a statute of limitations.

ResearchWill

[Jackass] wrote: »

If all you want to know is what will happen then no, you cannot go to jail for breaching this court order as it is a civil matter, but, on the other hand, the father will have the right of access as proposed by the court and can have it enforced if you don't co-operate by calling the gaurds and having a supervised removal of the child to fullfill his visitation rights.

If you put up a big enough fight if this happens, then yes, you could be arrested for breach of the peace or some other BS charge, I doubt it would land you in court, if it did, you'd only get a slap on the wrist.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT: Should you defy the court order, there's a dispute, the guards get involved, you are generally causing a nuassance in the situation, he can bring YOU to court and depending on the severity, he may get MORE access or ALL access if you are acting irresponsible infront of your child, defying the court and causing domestic disputes, again, depending on the severity.

The bottom line is, if you have any interest in defying the courts order, the only way to do it is through an objection or appeal, so you better find a solicitor, but in all honesty, if you have no grounds for appeal and he's already been granted this access there's no way they will change it unless you have evidence of any wrong doing or reason he shouldn't be around the child (garda reports of violent behaviour, domestic issues, social services recommendation).

Best of luck.

The reason that advice should not be accepted on the Internet. The above is just plain wrong. The Quinns are involved in a civil matter breached Court Order, guess what Jail. Civil matter women refused access to her own land by the ESB, guess what Jail, http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0912/treacyt.html. In family law there is a application that is made to courts every day in relation to breached court orders its called an application for attachment and committal the second part is going to jail.

eaglej13

Sleipnir wrote: »

In extreme cases, the person with the court order can call the Gardai out if denied access. They enforce the law which, in this case, happens to be a court order.
Or, he can go back to court and say that the court order is not being complied with. Then they judge will probably again direct you to comply. Non-compliance could result in an arrest but I seriously doubt the Gardai would ever do that. Unless a warrant was issued by the courts (which I doubt would happen either!)

sorry the gardai have no power when it comes to enforcing and access order, they will tell you to go back to court and report the breach.