What adjustments can we make

Diamondmaker

Darcy, Drico, Trimble, Horgo, Leamey, Oconnell, Ocallaghan, Flannery could now be cosidered the core of the team for the future I think. Due to their current standing and relatively young age.

They between them have immense experience and success at CL, ERC and 6N level. They are all also young enough ~78-80 DOB to have their peaks ahead still.

ROG and Strings a little older.

we need to bring in a few new guns to back up and bolster.

1. Heaslip Must line out with wallace and leamey, the amount of ball carrying yards made by these 3 would be frightening.
2. Scrum Half. Strings does not break, he is not a threat. As a result Defences can cover the centre better and afford them less time. Boss needs game time and will help offer a dynamic here to create space.
3. Outhalf :Stan cant have come out of this tour with any positives. Similarly to Strings ( ROG ) does not break and is a revolving door in defence.
4. Props major problem after the Bull etc age...The Bests??
5. Full Back surprisingly enough, Girv is ageing fast despite the best seson for a long while and Murphy does not seem to click most of the time in Green.
could Kearney be used as cover or groomed in this position?
6. Cover for the backs, when B Murphy is back and obviously Kearney is fairly handy about the back line. K Lewis perhaps...any one else?

Any place for Jennings in here too???

The future is bright but can we get the combinations right and will the coach make the right calls and the brave decsions or ever sub a player at the right time!???

We dont want these guys to be known as the "nearly men of Irish Rugby History"
Nearly won a Grand Slam, Nearly bet the ABs , nearly wona tour down under......

EdgarAllenPoo

It may be a long way off but I see Sean Cronin as being second in line to Flannery, as for scrumhalf I'd say Fiach O'Loughlin might be worth a go but that's a long way off. Ireland seems particularly sparce in the scrumhalf department.

Diamondmaker

GDM wrote:

It may be a long way off but I see Sean Cronin as being second in line to Flannery, as for scrumhalf I'd say Fiach O'Loughlin might be worth a go but that's a long way off. Ireland seems particularly sparce in the scrumhalf department.

with reference to next season and WC I should add.......;)

EdgarAllenPoo

Eh, hmm, well then, we're screwed pretty much.

Chucky the tree

Diamondmaker wrote:

We dont want these guys to be known as the "nearly men of Irish Rugby History"
Nearly won a Grand Slam, Nearly bet the ABs , nearly wona tour down under......

Wo won a triple crown though, hurrah for EOS. :rolleyes:


If we sacked him before this years 6nations we would be in much better shape. Now we are pretty much screwed. They wont get rid of him till after the WC. Which will either end at the group stage or 1/4 final.

Outside the second rows and back 3 our cover is terrible. EOS lack of experimenting has killed us.

toomevara

Diamondmaker wrote:

We dont want these guys to be known as the "nearly men of Irish Rugby History"
Nearly won a Grand Slam, Nearly bet the ABs , nearly wona tour down under......

What adjustments can we make......We can have the impulse control side of EOS' incredibly conservative rugby brain disconnected immediately, his approach is definitely in danger of squandering/underutilising a cracking squad of unpecedented irish rugby talent...

Amazotheamazing

Ireland will win nothing wth the halfbacks we have, neither is good enough to beat the top teams and sadly both are the best we have.

toomevara

Reckon on a good day with an irish pack in go forward mode our half back combo can match most in the world and we can definitely more than hold our own in the six nations. England are rudderless at the moment in this area with robinson desperately trying to settle on an effective combination,Scotland are mediocre, Wales OK, Italy promising, but no more than that. Say what you like about ROG and his failings, but I'll take him over the likes of Andy Goode, Olly barclay, Scotlands Dan parks, Flaky Freddy Michelak any day. As for Stringer, ok no breaking game....snore...we know all this but he is far and away the best we've got. no doubt at all. I mean Boss' service yesterday...awful

We definitely need to be searching for new combos, but if you throw say staunton and reddan into the cauldron of the six nations next year..well could be a disaster in run up to WC is te risk worth it....?

Chucky the tree

toomevara wrote:

We definitely need to be searching for new combos, but if you throw say staunton and reddan into the cauldron of the six nations next year..well could be a disaster in run up to WC is te risk worth it....?

If we dont play them now, we really are ****'d. This year 6 nations, redan stanton, kearney, lewis, Heaslip and jennings should of at least started against scotland and wales.

We should of started with a different prop to hayes. POC should of been dropped for cullen or someother young 2nd row.( dont know much about the emrging 2nd rows in Irish rugby).


Now that we havent its a must we play them regularly this 6 nations, otherwise we are really screwed in the world cup. Of course eddie wont do this. He will want to keep the momentum going and will pick his strongest 15, baring injuries probaly the same squad that tour NZ and Aus. Kearney might be brought into it.

When it comes to the world cup we will need to use are subs wisely, we will also be doing well to make it through with no injuries. What happens when we use a sub(say kearney/lewis/boss) come on? They will play like they boss did on saturday. They wont be used to that sort of pressure and it will be very hard for them.

the players will either have to hold onto a lead against either france or NZ, or else Eddie will be putting them on when were losing and ask them to pull something special out of the bag. This with limited experience of internatioal rugby?

Goodman yourself Eddie, truly the best manager Ireland has ever had.

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

If we dont play them now, we really are ****'d. This year 6 nations, redan stanton, kearney, lewis, Heaslip and jennings should of at least started against scotland and wales.

OK, there's alot of merit in what you're saying and maybe, just maybe, taking a development approach to the upcoming 6N would be a good idea with regard to the WC, but will the Irish rugby public and media wear a series of defeats in the run up to the WC and how will that affect morale in the camp? And will EOS be able to overcome his inbred conservatism to take a gamble (dont think the word's in the man's vocabulary). The spectre of an injury to O'gara, hayes, stringer and the lack of cover is terrifying, think we're between the devil and the deep blue sea on this one...

Amazotheamazing

toomevara wrote:

[QUOTE=Chucky the tree The spectre of an injury to O'gara, ...

I find the spectre of a fit O'Gara playing just as terrifying. Take away his kicking, and you're left with an outhalf who can't run, break, tackle with both suspect nerve and decision-making.

toomevara

Touche, you got me there......can do the odd break though, oh god who am I kidding, just lying to myself......

Amazotheamazing

Ideally the O'Gara who plays in Thomond Park would turn up for international duty, but it rarely happens these days.

bugler

That's not comparing like with like. The Munster front row doesn't get shunted about on HC duty, they do with Ireland shirts on. The quality of opposition dictate how well you can play. The only obvious thing you can criticise O'Gara for on this tour is suspect defence.

Adjustments we can make:

1) Give Young a run of 2/3 games in the side against sides with a good scrum. We still do not conclusively know how a front row of Young/Flannery/Hayes would go. The first scrum after Young came on was a disaster, but after that it settled, and later on there was actually the sight of an Irish scrum getting a shove on. How long we have waited.

2) Try an alternate Scrum-half. It may well be Eoin Reddan who gets the shirt. Time will tell. But there is more or less uniform agreement that Stringer's limitations are holding the side back. If Boss isn't up to it, Reddan should be tried.

Forget about out-half. O'Gara is going nowhere, and we have no alternative. Staunton is still horribly patchy. Maybe he should get a game, but the suspicion shared by almost everyone is that he'll never cut it at this level. EOS may wait for Manning to naturalise. Or he may take Wallace.

The positives from the game are that our backrow is fantastic, and in depth too. But we learnt that if our generally excellent lineout misfires, then we can't have another dodgy set-piece come scrum time.

Amazotheamazing

O'Gara's decision making and breaking were also shown up on this tour. Just becuase he's the best we currently have doesn't mean we shouldn't try new combinations.

Hippo

You're right, I don't think Staunton is ever going to be the solution at OH, and Wallace is even more flakey. Truly we are doomed in this area. This is arguably as good an Irish team as any there has ever been, and yet it's crippled at half back and in the front row. Maybe it's all just a product of the small player pool, and that we will never have the numbers to provide 15 class players, plus a few on the bench.:(

JuliusFranco

is Geordan Murphy our answer at No10? Rob Kearney could be a out-half yet...

Is a front row of Best, Flannery and Young going to be any better?

The thing is tho that for the 3 autumn tests, all of the main "A" players and the replacements from this tour will need to start most of the games. And bearing in mind it's going to be a long season, it will be no harm giving the likes of POC, BOD, Hayes, Horan etc some time off and for god sake some new half backs please!

zAbbo

Murphy at 10?

He's capable of playing on the wing but not at 10. In fact he played half of this years HC games on the wing.

Interesting times, We needed the bench at 60minutes, Hayes looked out on his feet in any recent test at the hour mark, Why not tell him to bust himself for at least 50, and replace him then ?

toomevara

But the bench were, with all due respect....****e, we had and have no true impact players. I dont hold with just emptying it for the sake of it. Boss, no impact...Rory Best...gimme strength, Murphy for D'arcy and laughably staunton for trimble. O'Driscoll was effective but then so was the man he replaced.We dont have the depth and thats really and unfortunately the long and the short of it in my view. If these guys are genuine contenders in EOS' eyes for WC places, they should have been sent to the Churchill.

Amazotheamazing

I honestly think EOS has no idea of his strongest bench.

Look at it this way, if Reddan and Staunton start 15 GP games, and 6 HEC games next season and play reasonably well, they'll make the World Cup squad, if Wallace gets to be Ulster number 10, he'll make the bench.

Same is true at tighthead, if Bracken gets his place at Wasps he'll break onto the bench too. If Sheahen makes a successful comeback he'll be on the bench, if not Best.

15 months out and we've no idea what our best 22 is.

Chucky the tree

toomevara wrote:

.

OK, there's alot of merit in what you're saying and maybe, just maybe, taking a development approach to the upcoming 6N would be a good idea with regard to the WC, but will the Irish rugby public and media wear a series of defeats in the run up to the WC and how will that affect morale in the camp? And will EOS be able to overcome his inbred conservatism to take a gamble (dont think the word's in the man's vocabulary). The spectre of an injury to O'gara, hayes, stringer and the lack of cover is terrifying, think we're between the devil and the deep blue sea on this one...

I'd say screw the irish media and public.

If EOS was to turn around and say hes is playing a development squad to prepare them for the WC i dont think the media would completely crucify him. Its what needs to be done. And if they did crucify him, who cares? I am sure(i'd certainly hope) the public would feel the same aswell.

Wouldnt we all take losing to france and england and possible wales in favour of having a complete 22 squad with proper international experience? i certainly would.

Unfortunatly EOS is a clown. So he wont do this. He'll do the complete oppisite actually. I think the other teams will use this a steeping stone for the WC so expect the squads and fisrt 15 to be changed from match to match. But our Eddie will play the same 15 as we might actually end up with the 6 nations.

Everyone will jump for joy and salute EOS for being a true rugby genius(spelling). People will start proclaiming Ireland as definites to win the World cup. We'll be riding on a wave of joy till the world cup. And then we will be knocked out in the group stages.

On the impact player front. I think marcus horan would be an excellent one.

BIGALEIRE

What adjustments can we make?

Simple answer, expect only the best from the Irish Management and the Team.

And change the Behaviour, its time that Ireland took our rightful place as best in the world.

Ireland the "best in the world' you might ask, you probably think I'm a bit mad,

Ask a New Zealander who is the best rugby team in the world even after any of their very few defeats, and they will say New Zealand,

Why? Cos the have the mindset, and there is no acceptance of anything but the best.

We have the Talent just need to get the mindset into the rugby players, management, and most of all the Irish people

It's about time we started thinking a little bit less about how great we are to beat England (did you see England against Aus?), and a bit more about being a real contender in world rugby.

every other team in the world fears the first couple of mins of an Ireland game cos they know that if Ireland were to have the 100% mental attitude of the best in the world that we would beat anyone. But it just doesn't happen.

youthacademy

agreed BIGAL, especially in the case of NZ, they believe their the best in the world. in terms of skill, physicality, and indeed interest in the country, we have it. maybe winning in europe this year will have gone some way to changing the mindset to a more aggressive self-believe(like in NZ)

BIGALEIRE

Nearly won a Grand Slam, Nearly bet the ABs , nearly wona tour down under......[/QUOTE]


nearly won beat the all blacks nearly won a tour down under, who do you think you are foolin, we didn't even come close