Michelin are leaving..

Kersh

Thought this might happen.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=121700

aidan_dunne

Nothing really new there then. Just official confirmation of something that we've all known was going to happen for some time now. I think the rumours began circulating about Michelin withdrawing from F1 as far back as the beginning of 2004 when Max Mosley started talking about appointing a single tyre manufacturer in an effort to curb costs. Michelin said, even back then, that it was something they didn't agree with and that F1 should be about the highest technical level and competition between teams, engines, tyres, everything and that appointing a single tyre manufacturer or introducing a control tyre was against everything F1 is supposed to be about. Then, on top of that, I guess last year's US Grand Prix debacle was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for Michelin's F1 programme. So this isn't really news, I guess, just official confirmation from Michelin of what everybody has known was on the horizon for ages.

Looks like F1 is going to probably be an all Bridgestone series from 2008 then. Which could possibly be quite an advantage (for a while, at least) for the likes of Ferrari and the other current Bridgestone runners when the time comes, having had experience over the previous few years of running on Bridgestones.

Jonny Arson

We've known this months but still thank god they're going. They should have been chucked out of F1 immediately after the scandalous USGP of 2005.

One tyre manufacturer makes a more level playing field and thats only a good thing.

Traction control next please......

steviec

Yea it was annoying watching so many races being decided by which tyre supplier was better suited to any given track, made me miss the days a few years ago when everyone was on Goodyears for a decent period.

As far as I remember they're moving back to real slicks in 08 too, and if that's the case I don't think it'll be an advantage for Bridgestone teams, it'd be like a clean slate for everyone.

SouperComputer

Traction control next please......

Not gona happen. Its way too difficult (IE impossible) to enforce unless they completely banish electronics from the cars.

A significant reduction in downforce and a switch to slicks would help make things more interesting though.

steviec

SouperComputer wrote:

A significant reduction in downforce and a switch to slicks would help make things more interesting though.

Yep, and that's precisely what they're planning to do, with wider tyres, a return to slicks, and the introduction of the new rear wing regulations that will result in that 'split' rear wing that there were diagrams of going around a while ago.

Haven't heard much about any of that in a good while though, I hope it's all still agreed on.

aidan_dunne

steviec wrote:

Yep, and that's precisely what they're planning to do, with wider tyres, a return to slicks, and the introduction of the new rear wing regulations that will result in that 'split' rear wing that there were diagrams of going around a while ago.

Haven't heard much about any of that in a good while though, I hope it's all still agreed on.

Still might not be going ahead, from reports I've read. It certainly hasn't been finalised yet and there's still some time yet for it to be dropped from the proposed 2008 regulations. It seems the teams and, in particular, their sponsors aren't happy with the split rear wing idea because it reduces the amount of space and visability of their company logos on the rear wing. One large rear wing, as we have now, gives much greater exposure than the proposed two smaller wings would so the sponsors aren't happy with the idea. Seems some of the teams aren't happy with the design either and want the FIA to come up with a better design which would enable cars to get closer and promote overtaking, as this proposed wing is supposed to do, but without loosing the large amount of downforce they would with this new wing. Seems some of the teams want to have their cake and eat it, i.e. cars racing closer together and more overtaking but still have as much downforce, or more, that they do now. Don't know how the hell the FIA could manage to come up with a solution to achieve all that, though, and keep everyone (teams, sponsors, television and the fans) happy. Somethings going to have to give somewhere.

Still though, I like the sound of the return to slick tyres. I've been saying for years that they should reduce the level of aerodynamic downforce the cars have (and, therefore, the "dirty air" effect and get the cars racing closer together) and increase the level of mechanical grip the cars have so they can overtake easier by having enough grip from the tyres to be able to dive down the inside of someone and make it stick.

Now if only we could see 1500 bhp turbo engines and manual gearchanges brought back, that would be like a dream come true for me. *sigh* Sort the men out from the boys, eh? Oh, and get rid of f**king refueling! I've been screaming for that since it was reintroduced in '94. Go back to the pre-1994 regulations of everyone having to start with the same amount of fuel and weighing the same. Let them make pit stops (non-compulsory) for tyres if they want or need to but for God's sake get rid of refueling. I want to see races decided out on the track, not in the pits or because of some "clever strategy" by Ross Brawn or Pat Symonds on the pit wall. :rolleyes:

SouperComputer

Now if only we could see 1500 bhp turbo engines and manual gearchanges brought back, that would be like a dream come true for me. *sigh* Sort the men out from the boys, eh?

Yup! Teach them kids how to heel\toe!

Maybe the FIA could force "control wings" on the teams? Same wings front and rear for all, leave some room for chassis downfroce experimentation, but not too much. Might be a good thing as really you need your own wind tunnel at signifacnt expense to be on the pace currently. Introducing a "control wing" wont cancel the need for a tunnel, but it would level the playing field a bit. Could work well for sponsors, you would have a nice visible area, but the surfaces, dimensions and adjustments would be fixed.

Of course some teams will winge at the prospect of using a "contol wings" as it might not work with their chassis, but TBH, TS. It cant be any worse than the current situation in terms of competition.

aidan_dunne

Souper, that is just the kind of thing I've been thinking about myself and the kind of thinking they need at the Place de la Concorde in Paris, I think!

I thought to myself that a control wing would be an ideal solution. It works in other formulas and categories of racing (Champcar, GP2, F3, etc.), why not F1? Or, design a wing that is pretty much purely cosmetic, there to give the sponsors somewhere to stick their logos and to make the car "look" like a racing car but which, in actuality, gives little or no downforce and causes no "dirty air" effect. They did that with the BTCC and ETCC/WTCC touring car aero packages a few years ago when they decided to come up with new regs because things were getting out of control under the old Super Touring rules. The wings on the current crop of BTCC and WTCC cars are mostly cosmetic, they give a little downforce but not much, certainly not like the levels they did back in the Super Touring days when some teams were using wind tunnels to design the aero pieces for their cars at huge expense! :eek:

It would be a much better solution as you suggested, Souper, but, as you also said, the teams would probably be in uproar over it and be complaining about how F1 isn't supposed to be a spec series like GP2 or Champcar. :rolleyes:

AdMMM

When I stopped watching F1 at the end of 1996 season, the general concensus was that downforce was to be reduced in regulations. When did they suddenly change their views on downforce being a bad thing for the sport? which I sternly think it is!

steviec

|.Murderer.| wrote:

When I stopped watching F1 at the end of 1996 season, the general concensus was that downforce was to be reduced in regulations. When did they suddenly change their views on downforce being a bad thing for the sport? which I sternly think it is!

They haven't. The designers have just been coming up with new steps faster than the FIA have been able to counter it. It's very hard to keep under control without drastic measures, but drastic measures are really what we need.

v10

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Traction control next please.......

SouperComputer wrote:

Not gona happen. Its way too difficult (IE impossible) to enforce unless they completely banish electronics from the cars.

Actually it is gonna happen ..

Announced today:

The WMSC also announced that Microsoft MES will be the official supplier of ECUs (electronic control units) to F1 over the same three-year period.

Engine management software is being standardised because the FIA believes it is the only way to ensure an enforceable ban on traction control.

SOURCE

SouperComputer

brilliant

Although I'm somewhat sceptical from a tech standpoint that they are using closed-source software.

Robbo

SouperComputer wrote:

brilliant

Although I'm somewhat sceptical from a tech standpoint that they are using closed-source software.

I'd be more worried that it's Microsoft

SouperComputer

Robbo wrote:

I'd be more worried that it's Microsoft

He he thats what I meant. Could make for interesting racing though gaping security holes and all that.

aidan_dunne

Oh I can just see it now. Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso charging side-by-side down the home straight towards the finish line on the last lap of the last Grand Prix of the season. Whoever finishes ahead of the other wins the World Championship. The crowd are on their feet, they can't believe the amazing finish they're witnessing. Millions of people around the globe also can't believe it as they sit on the edges of their seats watching on television. It's probably the greatest finish to a race and a World Championship we've ever seen.

Then, all of a sudden, we hear a loud, chiming "Dun!" from Alonso's car and his engine cuts out and he comes to a halt just inches from the line. Schumi crosses the line to win the World Championship for the 8th time while Alonso sits dejectedly in his car, just simply staring in disbelief at the display on his dashboard which reads.....















..... Windows cannot complete this operation and has halted the engine ECU application. Please shut down your car and restart.