Poker Etiquette.

Goodluck2me

A situation arose in a casino i was in a couple of weeks ago which the more i think of it really annoys me. i was playing a 1-2 cash table with 2 of the guys whom i work with aswell as 7others.
Hand 1: i lose an all in to one of the guys i work with, player A.
Hand 2: I lose all in to Player B, another friend.
Hand 3: Player B loses all in to Player A, but this time he returns over100euro (40% of the pot) back to player B.
Hand 4: I lose all in to Player B who hadnt money to reload with unless Player A gave him money from the table.
Basically i lost an all in to player A which i rightly recieved nothing back, but player B gets 80% of his investment back which he lost, and uses it to stack me. i didnt call luke over at the time as they were friends but the more i think of it the worse it is. opinions?

jbravado

Messy!Surely these kind of antics are not allowed!???Maybe Im missing something.....?

Goodluck2me

thats what i thought, i never recieved any money back after i lost, which is the way it is supposed to be and would never have accepted had i been offered. also note that we didnt go in together we just knew each other and worked together as in outside of poker, 9-5 jobs, not worked togeterh at the tables!

Marq

object,
you have the right to.

Lafortezza

Did he give him money back from his stack (in chips)? Or money from his wallet.

Mr. Flibble

Object as he hands money over, not after playing and loosing to player B. I would imagine you would be happy enough with the passing of chips if you had stacked player B with the money that he shouldn't have had - which is what you were trying to do in the hand.

edit: I think I would object if I thought player B was better than someone likely to replace them.

Hectorjelly

The only reason you should be at the table is that you think you have an edge over the other players, so if they move chips around you should be happy if it keeps them at the table. Before the hand you would of been happy for the guy to have those chips (I assume, or else you would of folded) so complaining about it after you lose is pretty childish

iBoT

it may be childish to give out about it after u lose, but its against the casinos rules(fitz), the money has to come out the players wallet not off the table.

what if you got into a heads up situation with the player who was giving his money away to other players , you have the nuts and hes calling your allin , now you lost out on the money he has been giving away to other players.

i wouldnt be happy i dont kno about you..

5starpool

I have seen this happen in the Fitz for smaller amounts, up to a pony or so (once for 50 I believe), but never for 100 out of the stack. The dealer should probably have not allowed this.

Edit: To object at this stage would be churlish I think, but at the time the 'rebate' was given it would be fine.

smurph

something on a similar vain happened to me a few years ago in the Fitz. Their rules are very simple, no giving of cash to people from your stacks, simple. I had won a big pot against a regular. They called me aside and asked me for a loan of €100, now i do hate seeing people down on their luck and gave them the money (out of my pocket) never from the table. 1 hour later after they went on a major run of cards, they cashed out for €1k and flicked me a black €100 chip back. about €400 of that profit was mine. So i give someone a loan to sit down at the table with my money, and win money off me. I there and then made a rule to myself, i would not give someone a loan of money in a casino, no exceptions. I have been there myself, got cleaned out in a game. Worst thing to do is to chase the money.

Now the regular in question has pulled a few more strokes against people and im afraid i wouldn't give them bus fare home, the stories i have heard back about them.

5starpool

There are a few people I have loaned money to in the Fitz and I generally don't like it. Only 1 of them is blacklisted though as I have not seen sight nor sound of it since and I have heard he has done the same to others. I would love to name and shame but I can't.

ianmc38

I complained when someone did this in the S/E recently. They gave someone 200 in chips after winning a big pot because they owed them money. I objected and he had to take the chips back. I then busted him 10 minutes later.

harsh but fair.

Marq

Marq wrote:

object,
you have the right to.

Of course I mean that if you are going to object, do it when the money is handed over, not at any point. That's the only time that you have a right.

DeVore

Not only does the Fitz have a "no loaning money from your stack" rule but as memory serves, Luke also runs a "no loans on the premise, period" rule.
Of course it happens between friends off the table but I've never seen it done on a table. It was introduced to kill any loan sharking that might happen on the floor.

DeV.

Goodluck2me

i dont mean it to appear as sour grapes, i have no porblem with losign the money and wouldnt want ask/want it to be returned. the only reason i mentioned i lost to him after that was that it was like playing against two players. i wasnt 100% sure of the rules at the time so i didnt say anything and they were collegues but i do think the dealer should have said something as i did point it out politely at the time.

ollyk1

I think thats the real issue here gl2me.

You know the guys and you don't want people getting into a strop or maybe leaving the table so you need the dealer to be authorative and rule this out before you have to say anything.

In fairness to the Fitz the dealers they are normally pretty good on this sort of thing and therefore a player doesn't have to be the "asshole" calling for a ruling etc. But I guess ultimately you have to be prepared to stand up for yourself in poker and what suits you best.

If the two guys were terrible palyers and the money was ultimately staying on the table (and as a result I thought my chances of winning it were higher) I might say nothing but if I thought I was at a disadvantage from this breaking of the rules then I'd have to say something. If the dealer looks confused or unclear the poker desk is right there and a quick quiet word to Luke or Denise will solve a lot of problems.

I think whether you lost money or not subsequently is neither here nor there but if the guys were profit sharing and you have a suspicion of collusion arising from this money sharing incident then leave the table or asked to be moved and quietly explain your reasons to the floor manager.

Goodluck2me

ollyk1 wrote:

I think thats the real issue here gl2me.

You know the guys and you don't want people getting into a strop or maybe leaving the table so you need the dealer to be authorative and rule this out before you have to say anything.

In fairness to the Fitz the dealers they are normally pretty good on this sort of thing and therefore a player doesn't have to be the "asshole" calling for a ruling etc. But I guess ultimately you have to be prepared to stand up for yourself in poker and what suits you best.

If the two guys were terrible palyers and the money was ultimately staying on the table (and as a result I thought my chances of winning it were higher) I might say nothing but if I thought I was at a disadvantage from this breaking of the rules then I'd have to say something. If the dealer looks confused or unclear the poker desk is right there and a quick quiet word to Luke or Denise will solve a lot of problems.

I think whether you lost money or not subsequently is neither here nor there but if the guys were profit sharing and you have a suspicion of collusion arising from this money sharing incident then leave the table or asked to be moved and quietly explain your reasons to the floor manager.

I agree totally with this post, it just puts me in a difficult position with regard to having enforce a rule which all of the dealers should know, especially when you know the people in question.

Benglian

DeVore wrote:

...as memory serves, Luke also runs a "no loans on the premise, period" rule.

Of course it happens between friends off the table but I've never seen it done on a table. It was introduced to kill any loan sharking that might happen on the floor.

DeV.

Not true.

Where would the casino be without the Chinese moneylenders?

I have given people money from my stack on the table, when I had an absolute LOCK on them, and they kept betting into me and i felt sorry for them.

I also once reveived 50 euro back from a pot once when i did the same to someone else, and I was grateful at the time.

Is it possible to have a hard and fast rule about this that is strictly enforced?

For instance, I was sat in a PLO game in the early hours once, and everyone called the blinds, then it was checked down all the way. The guy that won the pot then threw everyone back thier euro chip.
Most people tipped it back to the dealer.
Strictly speaking, not allowed, but come on.....

RoundTower

DeVore wrote:

Not only does the Fitz have a "no loaning money from your stack" rule but as memory serves, Luke also runs a "no loans on the premise, period" rule.

memory a bit rusty?

Benglian

Here's another one.

I have turned up a bit tipsy after a night at the dogs, with my friend who thinks she can play poker, when in reality she is, to put it politely, not very good, especially when drunk.

She had no money, so i lent her a couple of hundred, we both sat in the only game in the house. I was doing well while she proceeded to bluff outrageously and unsuccessfully at every pot and was soon broke.

She asked me for more, but all my money was on the table. I asked if anybody objected to me giving her 400 from my stack. Everybody was very happy for this to happen, unsuprisingly. However the dealer stepped in, and told me I couldn't do it. Fine by me, as I don't think her best interests were served by taking it, but I couldn't refuse her directly without hurting her feelings.

Another guy at the table, who I didn't know then OFFERED to LEND ME the money from his pocket! I declined of course, as I never borrow from people I don't know.

But you see, sometimes it's very +EV if a sound player, is giving money from his stack to a very bad player....after all, why has the broke player gone broke?

A rule is a rule, except when it's bent.