5 10 AA hand

Hectorjelly

A friend of mine played this hand, all comments welcome of course but anyone with paticular knowledge of play at this level against this type of villain is paticularly welcome. I personally would call on the river.

invisibleleadsoup wrote:

5/10 full ring,9 handed,villain and i have been at the table since it was short handed and both have about 2500
he seems fairly tight,not even that agressive,and the table in general is very passive,no one else has a stack above 1000
we've basically been staying out of each other's way-i've been playing reasonably agressively in position,but not getting out of line at all,and nor has he..

so one guy limps in early position,villain makes it 35 in the cutoff,folded to me in the button,i have AA
i raise to 150,folded to the villain who calls

flop 832,i bet 200 into 330 or so,he calls
(is this too small?i didnt want to bloat the pot hugely out of position till i saw how he acted)
turn is another 8,i check,he bets 350,i call
(at this stage my concern is getting to a showdown-is this right? i mean he could have a set or TT-KK,and i don't really know how to find out which it is)
river is another 2,i check,he bets 850...

edit to note he is BB rather than button

ocallagh

call in a flash. the flop bet and check on the turn don't exactly scream confidence... KK is never checking behind on the river...


ps: the 8 on the turn is a good card IMO

cardshark202

I call here.

BigDragon

Hold on...if he is on the button how can he check/call the turn and river?

Hectorjelly

BigDragon wrote:

Hold on...if he is on the button how can he check/call the turn and river?

he must be one of the blinds, the title of his original post was AA oop

ChipLdr

I call here and expect to see JJ+. Very unlucky to be behind with that board but then again i'm no 5/10 player

Lafortezza

The board is 83282r, Villain is tight and passive and called a big PF raise?
Does nobody raise the river? What exactly are you behind?

Hectorjelly

lafortezza wrote:

The board is 83282r, Villain is tight and passive and called a big PF raise?
Does nobody raise the river? What exactly are you behind?

the guy is in position and has called a raise for about 1/20 of the stacks, they have over 200bbs each. His range is probably any pair, any suited connector, AK, Axs. There are a lot of 8's in this range!

You are behind

A2 (unlikely)
A or K8 (quite likely)
6 or 78 (quite likely)
88 (likely but mathematically unlikely)
22 (same)
33 (very likely)


If you stack off here automatically because the guy called a pfrr you should probably be dividing the stakes you play by 10 (ifyou play 510 that is!)

Of course there are tonnes of hands you beat, KK QQ random bluff etc, but I think a lot of these chk behind. But getting 2:1 id probably still call.

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

the guy is in position and has called a raise for about 1/20 of the stacks, they have over 200bbs each. His range is probably any pair, any suited connector, AK, Axs. There are a lot of 8's in this range!

You are behind

A2 (unlikely)
A or K8 (quite unlikely)
6 or 78 (fairly unlikely)
88 (likely but mathematically unlikely)
22 (same)
33 (very likely)


If you stack off here automatically because the guy called a pfrr you should probably be dividing the stakes you play by 10 (ifyou play 510 that is!)

Of course there are tonnes of hands you beat, KK QQ random bluff etc, but I think a lot of these chk behind. But getting 2:1 id probably still call.

Because villian is described as being tight-passive, I don't buy into A8 or K8 being part of his range.

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

Because villian is described as being tight-passive, I don't buy into A8 or K8 being part of his range.

First of all, he wasnt descibed as tight passive. The OP says he is tight, and not that aggressive, which isnt quite the same.

Secondly this is 5 10 so we can assume that the average player has some sort of understanding of the basics of poker. This is a totally different scenario than any other hand the guy is likely to have played before (in the hands that we have seen him), because the effective stacks are way bigger. The optium calling range is much wider with an effective stack of 200bbs than with 100bbs. So its very likely that we wouldnt of seen him call a reraise before with marginal hands, but that he could have one here.

fuzzbox

Tough spot.
Aint position grand.

I have to call.
He could have 8x but, then surely he should consider folding the flop, unless he is planning to float.
He could have 88/33/22, but the 8 on the turn and the 2 on the river make these holdings a lot less likely.
He should have KK/QQ a fair amount of time. He shouldnt normally have TT/JJ, but he might now realise that he is beat with those hands and be bluffing, trying to get JJ/QQ to fold perhaps.
Or he could have us beat.

kickintheteeth

call hoping to see J10 suited. :-)

MrPillowTalk

I would have to call and expect to see an overpair, I think A8 and K8 are unlikely given that it was repoped pre flop, most 5/10 players will fold A8 K8 there hinking there is a very good possibility that they are dominated.

78, 89 and 33 I think are all quite possible but just as possible are 99 - QQ, KK probably plays back at us pre flop.

His flop bet is fine, I would very likely fire at the turn to see where I am.

wayfarer

Just a quick question: If a tight villan can have the hero seriously considering laying down AA here on the most innocuous looking board, is it correct to re-raise pf oop with AA, seen as the villan's getting implied odds for sets, playing suited connectors or any trash really?

fuzzbox

wafarer: if hero only reraises with AA/KK/QQ then villain is in a really great spot for sure.

wayfarer

But then are you not going to get yourself into even more trouble when you have to play hands like AK JJ etc. oop when the pot is pretty big. The villan could be more likely to float and try to take the pot off you knowing that you're re-raising with sub-premium hands.

Would it not be better to just never re-raise oop when the stacks are deep?

Hectorjelly

wayfarer wrote:

But then are you not going to get yourself into even more trouble when you have to play hands like AK JJ etc. oop when the pot is pretty big. The villan could be more likely to float and try to take the pot off you knowing that you're re-raising with sub-premium hands.

Would it not be better to just never re-raise oop when the stacks are deep?

no that would be crazy, the trick is to be better at poker than your opponents

if you just reraise with AA/kk then you are giving your opponents enormous implied odds and will be very easy to play against, if you broaden that range but not too much you make it hard for your opponents to play you

if you never reraise then you let your opponents set their own price to enter a pot, which is suicide

Jaden

When I read the OP, I asked myself, "What does the Villian think the Hero has?".

Preflop, he's raised the pot preflop LP to one limper. He smooth calls the re-raise. He must be wary of AA/KK here.

AK could smooth call here? Smaller PP?

Innocent looking flop. Villian calls 200 into 530 pot. Odds are he'd do that with alot of hands, including an overpair. This looks like a continuation bet to the Villian.

He bets half the pot on the turn. Why? This is the move that throws me. He's giving the hero odds to call with an OP. Has the 8 helped? Could he really have A8? Was the raise preflop a blind steal? Why call PF with A8? He doesn't have A8.

He puts the hero on AKs. He has JJ.

If this is the case, he will bet the river a pot sized bet. He does. Call, and cash in.

fuzzbox

Jaden: read the post again, you got several items wrong

Hectorjelly

Jaden wrote:

When I read the OP, I asked myself, "What does the Villian think the Hero has?".

Preflop, he's raised the pot preflop LP to one limper. He smooth calls the re-raise. He must be wary of AA/KK here.

AK could smooth call here? Smaller PP?

Innocent looking flop. Villian calls 200 into 530 pot. Odds are he'd do that with alot of hands, including an overpair. This looks like a continuation bet to the Villian.

He bets half the pot on the turn. Why? This is the move that throws me. He's giving the hero odds to call with an OP. Has the 8 helped? Could he really have A8? Was the raise preflop a blind steal? Why call PF with A8? He doesn't have A8.

He puts the hero on AKs. He has JJ.

If this is the case, he will bet the river a pot sized bet. He does. Call, and cash in.

This is not the type of thinking or play that goes on between decent players at any level. There is 0 chanec at all any decent player is value betting JJ on the river, if hes betting there with JJ its as a bluff

Norwich Fan Rob

Jaden wrote:

When I read the OP, I asked myself, "What does the Villian think the Hero has?".

Preflop, he's raised the pot preflop LP to one limper. He smooth calls the re-raise. He must be wary of AA/KK here.

AK could smooth call here? Smaller PP?

Innocent looking flop. Villian calls 200 into 530 pot. Odds are he'd do that with alot of hands, including an overpair. This looks like a continuation bet to the Villian.

He bets half the pot on the turn. Why? This is the move that throws me. He's giving the hero odds to call with an OP. Has the 8 helped? Could he really have A8? Was the raise preflop a blind steal? Why call PF with A8? He doesn't have A8.

He puts the hero on AKs. He has JJ.

If this is the case, he will bet the river a pot sized bet. He does. Call, and cash in.

There is absolutely no way villian has JJ here.

fuzzbox

wayfarer wrote:

But then are you not going to get yourself into even more trouble when you have to play hands like AK JJ etc. oop when the pot is pretty big. The villan could be more likely to float and try to take the pot off you knowing that you're re-raising with sub-premium hands.

Would it not be better to just never re-raise oop when the stacks are deep?

But villain doesnt know when you are at-it, and when you have a premium, so he might float at the wrong time, and you can snap him off. Or he might fold the best hand at the wrong time.

robinlacey

hi all,
it was me who played the hand...

i think i might have phrased the original post badly,in that the river decision wasn't the main thing i was interested in,i wasn't sure about how i played the whole hand...

as soon as the turn came my focus switched to getting to a showdown for cheap,and i think given the way the hand played out i probably had to call the river...

my problem is that i wouldn't normally be happy playing a 270 big blind pot with just one pair (technically two pair,but you know what i mean) and i wasn't sure if it was just a rare situational thing and there was nothing i could do about it or what...

i've been thinking about check call the flop,bet the turn as well,but i dunno,it was kind of a weird situation,in that i didnt know whether i was slowplaying against his worse overpair or if i was getting myself into trouble,which is why i defaulted to a way ahead/way behind strategy,ie check calling...i just feel that maybe this is too obvious or weak or something.

i did think,and still do,that he will have KK a lot of the time here,but obviously his range is wider than that,probably roughly what hector outlined,with it weighted towards KK and 33....does anyone strongly disagree?

i just feel that maybe this is too obvious or something.