I wish it was easier to get a job in Ireland

pvt. joker

As an american it is almost impossible to get a job in ireland unless you know someone. We vacationed in the west earlier this year and fell in love with everything about it. I guess you guys don't realize how nice it is to have country so full of heritage and culture. The best we can do is try and make it back there every couple of years until the employment standards loosen up a bit.

irishguy

What kind of job are you looking for? It realy depends on what industry you are working in, having contacts is very useful, but if you have experience in an area you shouldnt have a problem in getting a job over here

The Hill Billy

pvt. joker wrote:

As an american it is almost impossible to get a job in ireland unless you know someone.

Well now you do - all the Boardies! (OK - just me & irishguy so far, but it's a start.)
What sort of job are are you looking for?
Are you having difficulty with work permits or just getting a job?
Have you applied for many jobs so far?

qwertz

Wouldn't you say that the situation in your country isn't much better?

pvt. joker wrote:

As an american it is almost impossible to get a job in ireland unless you know someone. We vacationed in the west earlier this year and fell in love with everything about it. I guess you guys don't realize how nice it is to have country so full of heritage and culture. The best we can do is try and make it back there every couple of years until the employment standards loosen up a bit.

helios

I would have to disagree. Yes, I know that being Canadian gives me better chances than you Yanks, however, since living here the last 1 1/2 years, I'm on my 2nd job. My first one I got within 2 weeks of arriving in Ireland, 2nd got was offered to me 2 business days after my interview, and I'm only still a youngin...

[SG]BGA

Actually, the OP is dead on. My American fiancee had an absolutely woeful time here trying to find employment. She's a qualified medical scientist, which is a highly skilled position and of which there seems to be a shortage. The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.
My fiancee eventually found a position in a private lab (not in her chosen field), but was messed around by the owner who continually promised to get her a work permit, but never did, which resulted in her technically being in the country illegally. She tried to get work in hospital labs but ran into the first problem of requiring an Irish/EU person first, and secondly, the obscure ways of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Scientists, which you have to be a member of to work in as a medical scientist here apparently. In the States, all she needed to do was sit a standardised test, you pass, you qualify. Here in Ireland, you sit before a board of several people for half an hour. They like you, you're in. A lot too subjective for my liking. Eventually she ended up going back to the States to work and now we have to do the long distance thing again. Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

Tom Dunne

[SG]BGA wrote:

The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.

It's the exact same in the US if they want to get a work permit for an Irish/EU citizen - the US company has to prove it cannot get a US citizen to do the job.

[SG]BGA wrote:

Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

I do sympathise with you on your situation, but having worked in the US pre- and post-9/11, I would argue it is even worse in the US since the latter.

irishguy

The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.

Same in Canada too, which it should be, but i taught that it would be easy enough to prove in alot of fields in Ireland as there are so many positions vacant

Alun

[SG]BGA wrote:

Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

It's not just in Ireland that that is the case, but in most if not all EU countries, and has been for many, many years. I worked in Germany in the 80's for a Dutch firm working in the space industry. You wouldn't believe what a rigmarole it was getting work permits for Americans to work there, despite the fact that pretty much the only people available with that kind of experience at the time were Americans.

qwertz

Maybe I am misreading your post but this is not limited to Americans. Every non-EU person who requires a work permit is in this position. Many Americans think that they should get preferred treatment over somebody from a second or third world country. And believe me, I am not one of those anti-Americans. Live and let live!

[SG]BGA wrote:

Actually, the OP is dead on. My American fiancee had an absolutely woeful time here trying to find employment. She's a qualified medical scientist, which is a highly skilled position and of which there seems to be a shortage. The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.
My fiancee eventually found a position in a private lab (not in her chosen field), but was messed around by the owner who continually promised to get her a work permit, but never did, which resulted in her technically being in the country illegally. She tried to get work in hospital labs but ran into the first problem of requiring an Irish/EU person first, and secondly, the obscure ways of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Scientists, which you have to be a member of to work in as a medical scientist here apparently. In the States, all she needed to do was sit a standardised test, you pass, you qualify. Here in Ireland, you sit before a board of several people for half an hour. They like you, you're in. A lot too subjective for my liking. Eventually she ended up going back to the States to work and now we have to do the long distance thing again. Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

[SG]BGA

Never said the situation was limited to Americans. Case in point: I was working in a lab, and it turned out that a Polish woman that was hired for cleaning duties seemed to know a lot about what we were doing. Turned out she had a science degree :rolleyes: Just have a problem with the fact that someone who is highly qualified for the job in hand finding it very difficult to obtain that position due to nationality. I know that the American system can be equally hard, but at least they're used to people coming in. In Ireland it seems to me that they're almost amazed at people wanting to come to work, at least in the health care system (actually, given the state of a lot of our hospitals that's unsurprising). From my own personal experience the system in place is opaque and frustrating, involving an awful lot of calling people to find out what is needed, waiting weeks for them to get back to you, and then being given conflicting information. As I say, this is my own personal experience, but I do think the system needs a drastic overhaul, starting with decoupling the work permit from the employer which apparently is going to happen - eventually.

DOLEMAN

Although you may feel you deserve special treatment because you're from the US, the reality is you are treated like any other non-EU national.

The easist way to get a job here is to come as a student, work part-time (20 hours legally), and look for a "real" job at the same time.

smythmark

DOLEMAN wrote:

Although you may feel you deserve special treatment because you're from the US, the reality is you are treated like any other non-EU national.

The easist way to get a job here is to come as a student, work part-time (20 hours legally), and look for a "real" job at the same time.

It bit hypocritical alright the way we irish expect special treatment by the immigration authorities in the US because of our "special relationship" and yet don't return the favour the other way.

DOLEMAN

smythmark wrote:

It bit hypocritical alright the way we irish expect special treatment by the immigration authorities in the US because of our "special relationship" and yet don't return the favour the other way.

Do we really expect special treatment? I don't think I would feel that way.

smythmark

DOLEMAN wrote:

Do we really expect special treatment? I don't think I would feel that way.

I take your point and would agree that if I was travelling to the states I or anyone else would not expect any special treatment by US immigration in Dublin airport or when applying for a work visa.

I think that at a political level such a expectation certainly exists. Remember the recent lobbying of Washington for the amnesty of the thousands of illegals currently living in the states. There is definately a culture of not respecting the immigration laws of the US, and overstaying holiday visas amongst large numbers of Irish people. I also remember outcry last year when a few lads were arrested travelling illegally and put in jail, as would happen to people of any other nationality.

I am not making any case about the wrongs or right of US immigration laws and enforcement, which are certainly bordering on draconian, just that we ought to realise that to the majority of people in the US we are just another forgien country.

Slightly off topic rant over:D

Civilian_Target

i am curious as to why they place so many obstructions in the way of allowing qualified non-EU citizens to work in skilled employment in this country - they're only of benefit to it.

irishguy

Civilian_Target wrote:

i am curious as to why they place so many obstructions in the way of allowing qualified non-EU citizens to work in skilled employment in this country - they're only of benefit to it.

As said already most countries do this for some reason

DOLEMAN

Civilian_Target wrote:

i am curious as to why they place so many obstructions in the way of allowing qualified non-EU citizens to work in skilled employment in this country - they're only of benefit to it.

Firstly, the world is not a fair place, helping others does not come into our governments thinking. We elect our government to do what's best for Ireland. Restricting immigrants is best for Ireland.

We already have hundreds of millions of EU workers who can come to Ireland. Opening our borders to a couple of billion more would totally destroy this country.

I work in recruitment. You'd be shocked by how many Indian people want to come here and would if they could. No doubt lots of employers would want them here as well. They'd likely work for less money than you or me.

Opening our borders to anyone (even just to people with degrees etc.) would mean no job for you and me...

Only three countries in the EU are allowing Polish people etc. come and work. They realise immigration needs to be controlled. It can't be a free for all. You have to protect your own citizens...

PS I'm not anti-immigration whatsoever. But I agree with immigration control. I understand and respect why I cannot just move to America and start applying for jobs...
PPS Our work permit system works fine for employers who need skilled staff which they can't get in Ireland...

seamus

Afaik, Irish immigration/employment law hasn't seen much of an update in the last five years. For the longest time, it was simply a fact that someone coming into the country, e.g. from the U.S., was denying an Irish person the chance to have that job. Hence, one could only get the job (and thus a permit) on condition that someone "more entitled" couldn't do that job.

You also have a situation whereby employers can sometimes turn down an adequately skilled non-EU citizen, simply because they don't want the hassle of going through the work permit rigamarole - they would rather spend a little more cash and wait for someone else to come along.

I would certainly like to see a much more simplified approach to the whole deal. It's not like we're starved for jobs here.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

qwertz wrote:

Maybe I am misreading your post but this is not limited to Americans. Every non-EU person who requires a work permit is in this position. Many Americans think that they should get preferred treatment over somebody from a second or third world country. And believe me, I am not one of those anti-Americans. Live and let live!

if only the Americans followed you wise words of wisdom.

kjbsrah

DOLEMAN wrote:

...... You'd be shocked by how many Indian people want to come here and would if they could. No doubt lots of employers would want them here as well. They'd likely work for less money than you or me....

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

DOLEMAN

kjbsrah wrote:

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

?????

You've completely misread what I was saying. It wasn't an anti-India comment and I'm saddened you choose to see it that way! The glass ain't always half empty...

There are about a billion people in India. If we let them all come here and apply for Irish jobs, this country would be a new india.

The reason I pointed out India is because I get hundreds of CVs every day from Indian people. They in particular want to come to Ireland.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

kjbsrah wrote:

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

oh my god... chillax will ya. you totally missed his point.
read it in relation to the topic

lostexpectation

kjbsrah wrote:

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

yeha hard working, focused.... and abused...

there interesting docu on a guy coming over from a indian insurance call center.. . he outstripped the performace of every UK worker doing the same job, but the guy had gone a got a degree just to sit in a massive call center selling insurance.... dismal

justfortherecor

Wow, I never realised employers were required to prove that they had exhausted the methods for searching for a Irish/EU candidate before actively seeking an American/foreign worker. Is this an Irish or EU directive. If so, where could I have a look at it?

Our man in Havana

[SG]BGA wrote:

Actually, the OP is dead on. My American fiancee had an absolutely woeful time here trying to find employment. She's a qualified medical scientist, which is a highly skilled position and of which there seems to be a shortage. The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.
My fiancee eventually found a position in a private lab (not in her chosen field), but was messed around by the owner who continually promised to get her a work permit, but never did, which resulted in her technically being in the country illegally. She tried to get work in hospital labs but ran into the first problem of requiring an Irish/EU person first, and secondly, the obscure ways of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Scientists, which you have to be a member of to work in as a medical scientist here apparently. In the States, all she needed to do was sit a standardised test, you pass, you qualify. Here in Ireland, you sit before a board of several people for half an hour. They like you, you're in. A lot too subjective for my liking. Eventually she ended up going back to the States to work and now we have to do the long distance thing again. Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

And as soon as you get married, she won't need a work permit.

Our man in Havana

justfortherecor wrote:

Wow, I never realised employers were required to prove that they had exhausted the methods for searching for a Irish/EU candidate before actively seeking an American/foreign worker. Is this an Irish or EU directive. If so, where could I have a look at it?

It's the law but some employers particulary in the cleaning and security business ignore it completly.

vimak

justfortherecor wrote:

Wow, I never realised employers were required to prove that they had exhausted the methods for searching for a Irish/EU candidate before actively seeking an American/foreign worker. Is this an Irish or EU directive. If so, where could I have a look at it?

The same law also exists in Canada and I guess pretty much everywhere.

However for example to Canada where I've been looking to move, you can get a skilled worker permit and get in to the country and start to look for a job then. Isn't there something like that in Ireland also? Once you're legally in the country and have the necessary permits it would be much easier to find the job.

kjbsrah

DOLEMAN wrote:

?????

You've completely misread what I was saying. It wasn't an anti-India comment and I'm saddened you choose to see it that way! The glass ain't always half empty...

There are about a billion people in India. If we let them all come here and apply for Irish jobs, this country would be a new india.

The reason I pointed out India is because I get hundreds of CVs every day from Indian people. They in particular want to come to Ireland.

Actually yeah, sorry Doleman. I think i had missed the point of the thread - didn't mean to go into a rant like that.

I guess that with the reported properity of Ireland around the world it is inevitable that people from all over want to come and work here. But all the red tape makes the whole process crazy - from both theirs and the prospective employers view.

DOLEMAN

A lot of it comes down to the employer.

He can advertise the job, claim he can't get anyone, and then get a work permit for the non-EU worker.

HR people are incredibly lazy though, so they never bother to do this. Owner/employers are your best bet!

fly_agaric

DOLEMAN wrote:

Firstly, the world is not a fair place, helping others does not come into our governments thinking. We elect our government to do what's best for Ireland. Restricting immigrants is best for Ireland.

Jesus, its been a long time since I've seen someone post an opinion like that and not get called a bigot.........5, 4, 3

kjbsrah wrote:

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

Pop goes the weasel! LOL.

seamus

DOLEMAN wrote:

He can advertise the job, claim he can't get anyone, and then get a work permit for the non-EU worker.

It's a dangerous thing to do. Chances are, any job will get some responses. For an employer to simply ignore any Irish applications is dangerous. The Dept. of Immigration would get suspicious of any employer who said, "Nope, didn't get any responses".

The more common thing to do is to find reasons why said person is not suitable for the job. A non-EU worker is much more likely to get a position here if it's highly skilled/qualified - try finding a good reason why Joe the barman from Connemara isn't good enough to pull pints in your bar, but the young Canadian who'll work for peanuts is perfectly suited.

Is there also a clause that allows multinationals (e.g. Intel) to bring staff from other countries over?

pvt. joker

irishguy wrote:

What kind of job are you looking for? It realy depends on what industry you are working in, having contacts is very useful, but if you have experience in an area you shouldnt have a problem in getting a job over here

sorry it took so long to respond. we're selling our house and moving west. We're going to try and plan on relocating to ireland within 5 years.

i have a degree in accounting, but right now work for an IT oursourcing company with a division in Cork. I attempted to transfer, but there was too much red tape.

pvt. joker

qwertz wrote:

Wouldn't you say that the situation in your country isn't much better?

in my experience it seems much easier to work in the US as a non-citizen. I work with about 80 indian citizens here on work visas/green cards

Not to mention all of the irish students working at the beaches in new jersey and maryland

pvt. joker

helios wrote:

I would have to disagree. Yes, I know that being Canadian gives me better chances than you Yanks, however, since living here the last 1 1/2 years, I'm on my 2nd job. My first one I got within 2 weeks of arriving in Ireland, 2nd got was offered to me 2 business days after my interview, and I'm only still a youngin...

from the perspective of someone who can't really just take a chance on moving and finding a job later it's tough. From everyhting that i've read you need to find an employer willing to sponsor you and go through the hassle of submitting working papers for you that i guess say that they can't find an EU person to do the job.

pvt. joker

DOLEMAN wrote:

Although you may feel you deserve special treatment because you're from the US, the reality is you are treated like any other non-EU national.

The easist way to get a job here is to come as a student, work part-time (20 hours legally), and look for a "real" job at the same time.

in no way am i looking for special treatment. I just had no idea it was so hard for an american to obtain gainful employment there. I would happily work at a pub in galway city centre if need be. I'm done with the rat race in the states. The only reason that we're moving to austin, tx is to cash out of our house. In 3 years it appreciated $100,000. We want to roll that money to a cheaper market and hope that we can make enough in a few years to move to ireland and not worry about making enough money over there

pvt. joker

kjbsrah wrote:

Anything wrong with Indian people (over other people)?, and why would they want to work for less than you or i? Most Indians, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian (to name a few) people i know have very high qualifications and are in fact, very much focused on their careers.

I appreciate you say you are not anti-immigration, but that comment has really annoyed me! Its like saying 'i'm not racist but....'

in the US at least, they represent cheaper semi-skilled workers because they live communally. There's people in this office that are content being programmers for $12/hr when most US citizens demand over $20/hr (entry level).

pvt. joker

Hill Billy wrote:

Well now you do - all the Boardies! (OK - just me & irishguy so far, but it's a start.)
What sort of job are are you looking for?
Are you having difficulty with work permits or just getting a job?
Have you applied for many jobs so far?

I was hoping on establishing some contacts on here as a matter of fact :cool:

We would be looking for anything really. I actually started looking into it a few months ago ...even to the point of getting our dogs into IE (involves heathrow airport, surgically imbedded tags etc), and quickly got overwhelmed

Chakar

During the summer its especially hard for us students to get a job especially in Dublin.Dublin's a desperate place to try and get a job.Only have myself to blame you have to have a job set up for the summer but anyway.

pvt. joker

Chakar wrote:

During the summer its especially hard for us students to get a job especially in Dublin.Dublin's a desperate place to try and get a job.Only have myself to blame you have to have a job set up for the summer but anyway.

I think if anything we would try to find work in galway or cork. We never made it to dublin last time we were there. I live in and around 3 major cities in the US (NYC, Philly and DC) and am looking to get away from all of that. My dream house would be on Galway Bay

shoegirl

[SG]BGA wrote:

Actually, the OP is dead on. My American fiancee had an absolutely woeful time here trying to find employment. She's a qualified medical scientist, which is a highly skilled position and of which there seems to be a shortage. The position on employing Americans seems to be that you'll only be employed if a) no Irish person is qualified for the job and b) no EU person is qualified for the job. Any employer looking for a work permit for an American has to prove there are no Irish/EU candidates.
My fiancee eventually found a position in a private lab (not in her chosen field), but was messed around by the owner who continually promised to get her a work permit, but never did, which resulted in her technically being in the country illegally. She tried to get work in hospital labs but ran into the first problem of requiring an Irish/EU person first, and secondly, the obscure ways of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Scientists, which you have to be a member of to work in as a medical scientist here apparently. In the States, all she needed to do was sit a standardised test, you pass, you qualify. Here in Ireland, you sit before a board of several people for half an hour. They like you, you're in. A lot too subjective for my liking. Eventually she ended up going back to the States to work and now we have to do the long distance thing again. Needless to say I'm not entirely enamoured of the Irish system...

In fairness it can apply to people from other countries too. I had an Australian friend who ended up with a deportation order 5 years for something similar (job promised they'd get work permit but didn't and as a result the friend was technically working illegally).

Also had another US boss last year who had to go home after one year because his permit expired and they wouldn't renew it. Then there was an ex colleague who was working voluntarily because her permit was - wait for it - FIVE YEARS waiting for a decision!

I have to say that there is a real need for a proper system of application so people get the permit and not the employer. Citizens of civillised countries that offer a warm welcome to Irish allowing them to get a permit without already having a job should not be forced into a "bonded servitude" situation like they currently are. The countries whose citizens are exposed to this should immediately withdraw work permits for irish citizens and put them through the same system as non EU workers are subjected to here.

shoegirl

DOLEMAN wrote:

A lot of it comes down to the employer.

He can advertise the job, claim he can't get anyone, and then get a work permit for the non-EU worker.

HR people are incredibly lazy though, so they never bother to do this. Owner/employers are your best bet!

Depends on the job and the company. I have to say in fairness that I worked for a company for a few years where all the Irish and EU workers were hired in on about 20% more than the minimum wage, while all the most senior positions were being filled up by high fliers from the US and elsewhere. Naturally its extremely unfair to come to the EU/Ireland to get cheap labour but reserve a few cushy numbers for internationally mobile existing employees. I do think its not unreasonable that companies should have an open playing field.

However its very unfair that many Irish people can get visas and work permits easily for some places like the US, Canada or Australia and it doesn't work the other way round. There does need to be a bit of give and take and countries which offer generous VISA policies to Ireland should have reciprocal arrangements with Ireland for their own people. Otherwise we can kiss goodbye to any expectation of leniency for Irish people looking for work permits outside Ireland, which is a very bad thing indeed.

irishguy

Agreed we really should have an EU wide system for non EU nationals to get work permits here. Also a points system for getting a working visa for here[i.e. if you have the right work experience/education then you can come here even if you dont have a job] like in Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc

galah

shoegirl wrote:

However its very unfair that many Irish people can get visas and work permits easily for some places like the US, Canada or Australia and it doesn't work the other way round.

Sorry, but that's not true - Australia's visa policy for example is the same for everyone - you don't get a better deal just because you're Irish (or English, or German, or whatever).

irishguy

I was told that skilled migrants going to Australia wouldnt have a problem getting a visa, depending on what part of Australia you are going to.
Take a look at this
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/index.htm