Was London Calling in any way Punk?

Pighead

Pigheads been having a heated yet civilised debate with his flatmate over all things Punk. Funnily enough that Sandi Thom bitch has kicked this one off again. That girl is getting me into so many rows lately. Anyway he reckons Punk was totally dead by 77 apoint I didn't argue too much but I suggested it was more 78'ish.

Anyway then we moved onto London Calling by the Clash and hes trying to tell me that there is not an ounce worth of punk in that song. He says its pure rock and totally devoid of any punk at all. I'm just after listening to it again and to be honest I stand by my original point thats hes speaking through his arsehole. Any views from the forum afficiendos?
PS Its just the actual song we're arguing about, not the album.

po0k

Post your mate's definition of 'punk' w.r.t. way of life, musical elements, politics, philosphy.

If he mentions fashion he gets a kicking

magpie

Just because the Clash learned to play their instruments and how to write a decent tune doesn't mean they stopped being punk after "The Clash".

Your mate sounds like one of these guys who insists that anything that doesn't sound like The Exploited isn't 'proper' punk - which is clearly nonsense. Throbbing Gristle were part of the punk scene and their output defies description by any sane mind. He probably thinks The Stranglers are pub rock as well.

I suggest beating him soundly around the face and neck with a rolled up copy of Mojo from his own stash - as he's obviously spent too much time reading and not enough time jumping around with the record on full blast.

Pighead

Cheers lads, he's gonna come on and defend himself later after hes had a SNOOZE. Not very rock and roll really.

StaggerLee

My MP3 player says its Rock... so that must be it.

Its Punk Rock. Everyone Happy?

John

It's The Clash, that's enough for me

MrJones

i think they are punk rock (and pure class too btw).
Reasons:
1. they were around in 1977 direction
2. they had songs such as Guns of Brixton and Spanish bombs about political
matters which is anti establishment
3. there's a looseness to the way Joe Strummer sings some of the songs that
is associated with punk. He mumbles some of the lyrics, shouts some of them
and talks between verses stuff like that.

Giblet

It seems to me that your friends subscribes to an image rather than music and wants to be elitist by suggesting that punk died at a certain time. As if people couldn't possibly think the same way or write music with the same passion.

Tell him I called him a poser. He should cry then

Garret

I agree with him. It's not a punk song. Nothing wrong with that mind. It doesnt stop them from being a punk band or anything

John

MrJones wrote:

3. there's a looseness to the way Joe Strummer sings some of the songs that
is associated with punk. He mumbles some of the lyrics, shouts some of them
and talks between verses stuff like that.

So Van Morrisson is punk?

Pighead

Giblet wrote:

Tell him I called him a poser. He should cry then

Wow that was amazing. As soon as I uttered the word poser he started weeping uncontrollably! Now what do I say to make him sop. its been 3 hours now.

sceptre

Tony Parsons and Julie Burchill (see The Boy Looked At Johnny) declared that punk was over in December 1977. Mind you, judging by some of the stuff that Parsons has been writing in latter years (Man & Boy anyone?) I'm not sure he'd have noticed.

To be fair, 77 started the second wave of punk, probably overdue as even the term "punk"/"punk rock" had been around for six years at that point. Stiff Little Fingers, Crass and the Misfits (yeah, I know they's skirting on the edge). And then came the 2Tone bands and eventually the UK82 shower, which I guess we don't classify as punk.

I wouldn't say punk rock died at all, though subgenres like Oi, hardcore punk, general post-punk and early alternative started to get more attention. Bands like the Clash started mixing ska and rockabilly into their stuff and the sales and airplay followed.

One could argue that punk itself died the day Thatcher got voted into office. It's as good a date as any.

As for London Calling? Not punk. The entire album's got plenty of early ska, reggae, hillbilly boogie and straight rockabilly, the song itself has Paul Simonon pumping out a reggae bassline and it's in a minor key. It's a marvellous three minutes of rock but it's not punk.

MrJones

ya sure!! well in the context that joe strummer is singing you have drums,bass and lead guitar backing him up. take the song ..Should I stay or should I go... does that prove my point,do i need say anymore?

John2 wrote:

So Van Morrisson is punk?

magpie

Tony Parsons and Julie Burchill

are and were semi-literate urchins dragged in to try and make the NME hip. I would value their opinion on things musical as highly as that of a dustman on World Economic Policies.

it's in a minor key

So The Buzzcocks obviously weren't punk either then?

the song itself has Paul Simonon pumping out a reggae bassline

If you knew as much about punk as your purport to do you'd realise that punk and reggae were inextricaby linked. Ever hear "Punky Reggae Party" or read Don Letts' reminiscences of playing Dub at the Roxy to the Punk crowd?

Just because music is more complicated than E barre chords with lots of distortion and shouty lyrics doesn't mean its not punk.

Pighead

magpie wrote:

are and were semi-literate urchins dragged in to try and make the NME hip. I would value their opinion on things musical as highly as that of a dustman on World Economic Policies.



So The Buzzcocks obviously weren't punk either then?



If you knew as much about punk as your purport to do you'd realise that punk and reggae were inextricaby linked. Ever hear "Punky Reggae Party" or read Don Letts' reminiscences of playing Dub at the Roxy to the Punk crowd?

Just because music is more complicated than E barre chords with lots of distortion and shouty lyrics doesn't mean its not punk.

Pigheads siding with magpie on this one. This lad knows his musical history.
Impressive!

ianmc38

The Clash were punk before, during and after London Calling. QED.

Undergod

I never really liked The Clash, but yeah London Calling is punk. A lot of the Clash stuff doesn't sound, in terms of sheer musicology, like punk to me, but London Calling ain't one of them.

Slutmonkey57b

London Calling the Song is borderline Punk, I wouldn't give it the benefit of the doubt. The album - not punk at all. Not by a long way. Not that it's not good, but it's political 2 Tone rather than punk.