VRT Problems

netwhizkid

I swear to god I am so sick of this country, first they come along and tax the daylights out of us who bring a car into the country, now they are all rowdy over the paperwork I have for it.

I brought a BMW 316 1997 into the country last Monday week. Yesterday my uncle who worked with Revenue until 2003 called over and I was showing him the car etc. (Good job he called over) He was not too familiar with the new system as the old Blue Book was how they did it in his day.

I rang the VRT office in Tralee today for a quote and to enquire. They told me that the documents I was given by the car Dealer in the UK were not enough to register the car here. I was given practically everything, MOT Cert, HPI, Service History and most importantly the V5C/2 sections, 10 New Keeper Supplement, 11 Notification of Permanent Export, and the piece at the bottom about selling your Vehicle Privately.

Now the Mules (sorry for insulting mules everywhere) in the VRT office told me I have must either have the full V5 or a certificate of Export from the DVLA in Swansea. The Telephone No. on the form I have already doesn’t seem to be working and it is the same number as given on www.dvla.gov.uk I asked the Car Dealer in London if he would give me the whole V5 Registration certificate but he said it was UK law for him to return it to the DVLA in Swansea.

Has this happened to anybody here, the guy in the VRT office in Tralee said alot of people coming to them now are in the same situation and must get either the V5 Registration certificate or Export Certificate from the DVLA

If I had known this I would have made sure my dealer gave me the V5 and to heck with UK regulations. I may now be looking at a 6 week wait for the documents to be sent to me from the DVLA as some other poor sod explained here on the BMW Forums. I only discovered this last night had I found it two weeks ago all the mess could be avoided. I made a deal on the Tax with my dealer he knocked off £100 on condition I send back the tax disc to him.

Would there be any chance he still has the V5 and is waiting to send the tax Disc in with it?? Now I am off to try track down the DVLA and get either of the two certificates needed to VRT my car.

Also I think the Sticky on Importing Cars from the UK needs to be re-jigged with more Information on the UK certificates with Scans of the Documents etc to show people what they should and should not be getting. One post with all the relevant information and then lock the bloody thing then. There is about 5 pages of talk about "How to avoid paying VRT" this isn't really helpful to the majority; the original thread is bloated and needs to be condensed into useful info ASAP. I will help out with all my experience when I get this mess sorted out.

Kimbot

Always ring and enquire with Revenue exaclty what you need before you get it!! They change their minds so often!!

MercMad

If you dont mind me saying so, why didn't you check all of this BEFORE you bought the car and got into this mess ?

It seems obvious to me that you would need the V5 complete OR the Certificate of export !!

I think, however there is a discrepancy between what the DVLA do/say and what the VRT folk want !

Anan1

Had you asked them prior to purchasing the car, the VRO would have told you that you need the full V5 to register the car here. Swansea would have confirmed to the seller that this was OK, and you would have been given the V5. With the greatest of respect, I don't see how you can blame (and insult) the VRO for your own mistake.

fre

AFAIK the V5 has detachable sections, depending on what disposal is being made e.g. permanant export, scrapping, private sale within UK, etc the detachable bit gets sent to the DVLA leaving you with the rest of it for import, registration and VRT here...

however i imported a vehicle 3 months ago and am still waiting for the VRC, everytime I call the VRT office I get the answering machine.

netwhizkid

UPDATE

I moved on this rather quickly over the last hour. I got onto the DVLA in Swansea, My Telephone problems were caused by Dialwise, The Telestunt replacement. Anyway I got onto them and they have not received the V5 from my Car Dealer in London > Recommended calling them. Rang them and they have sent the V5 onto the DVLA in Swansea but said it could take upto 6 weeks for the DVLA to process (and we thought our Civil Servants were bad and inefficient :rolleyes:) Anyway I rang back the DVLA and told them the rush I was in because they said I could be waiting up to 6 weeks.

They recommended I download the form for Certificate of Permanent Export (V756), I have this done and am faxing it off soon, they said that they will fax back the Certificate of Export and that this should satisfy the VRO here. I will ring the VRO in Tralee first to see if they accept faxes. Hopefully they will I reckon if I wait for the V5 I will be lucky to have the car on the road here by September. It must be NCT'd and taxed and get through the thorny issue of Insurance for a 19yr old provisional licence holder on a beemer yet after the VRT is paid. :eek:

Oh the joys of living in modern Ireland. :mad: :mad:

Anan1

fre wrote:

however i imported a vehicle 3 months ago and am still waiting for the VRC, everytime I call the VRT office I get the answering machine.

Have you taxed the car yet? You will only get a VLC after you have taxed the car using the form RF100 you got when you paid the duty.

netwhizkid wrote:

Oh the joys of living in modern Ireland. :mad: :mad:

Come on, netwhizkid! You made a mistake, it's not Ireland's fault, it's not the VRO's fault, it's your own. Live & learn!;)

IrishRover

It's not obvious that you must keep ALL of the V5 if you are taking it out of the country. In fact the instructions on the V5 seem to imply the opposite.

I made the same mistake the first time I bought a car from the UK and hit the same problem when going into the VRO. They gave me a letter stating that I had applied in the VRT and was waiting on a cert of export to show to any gardaí should I be stopped in the meantime.

useeme

It takes 3 weeks for swansea to forward on the V5 form to your home address.

netwhizkid

Anan1 wrote:

Come on, netwhizkid! You made a mistake, it's not Ireland's fault, it's not the VRO's fault, it's your own. Live & learn!;)

I agree was my own fault as I rushed the whole thing, made up my mind to go & booked flights today then went tomorrow sort of thing.

IrishRover wrote:

It's not obvious that you must keep ALL of the V5 if you are taking it out of the country. In fact the instructions on the V5 seem to imply the opposite.

I completely agree and my dealer told me I was doing the right thing. The V5 is gone into Swansea since last Friday week by my dealer and should something fudge the Export Certificate, I will have only about two to three weeks to wait tops. I will update ye as things go, I am now considering doing a new blog type website to advise all noobs to what to watch out for while importing from the UK. I may do this after getting everything sorted out.

Neilw

I had a similar problem myself...brought a car down from the north and didnt have full V5.

Ask the VRT people to get a faxed history of the car you bought from the DVLA in Swansea, this is hoe I got my car vrt'd without the V5.
Taigd (sp) O'Keefe in Santry helped me out if that helps.

Neil.

Anan1

IrishRover wrote:

It's not obvious that you must keep ALL of the V5 if you are taking it out of the country. In fact the instructions on the V5 seem to imply the opposite.

That's because it's not Swansea's job to inform exporters of import regulations in other states.;)

kc66

Might be worth trying a different VRO. I have seen some very strict and heard of others that didnt care too much.

IrishRover

Anan1 wrote:

That's because it's not Swansea's job to inform exporters of import regulations in other states.;)

Well the VRO send the V5 back to Swansea so there must be some cooperation.

Anan1

IrishRover wrote:

Well the VRO send the V5 back to Swansea so there must be some cooperation.

That's only to deregister the car in the UK.

digitaldr

Dealer I bought off in Scotland insisted on taxing the car (at his expense) and sending the V5 to DVLA even though I told him it was for export - he tells me this after he's done it!(bought on Easter Monday so don't think DVLA was even open)

Anyway the VRO gave me a cover note and the DVLA asked me to apply for a Certificate of Permanent export. I got the v5 back in about 6 weeks and the cert of permanent export back a day later. Took them to the VRO and paid the VRT. Worked out well in the end as VRT had fallen by €134, saved on a months tax and got a refund fro the tax disc from the DVLA:D

Anyone now how to get the VRO to answer their phones?

Anan1

digitaldr wrote:

Anyone now how to get the VRO to answer their phones?

I've tried tallaght tens of times, and the phone has never been answered. You could try calling a regional office, they are much easier to get through to.

IrishRover

Anan1 wrote:

That's only to deregister the car in the UK.

Yeah, so what I mean is that the DVLA must see that they are getting the full V5 back so they must make the connection that the full V5 must have gone out in the first place.

Anan1

IrishRover wrote:

Yeah, so what I mean is that the DVLA must see that they are getting the full V5 back so they must make the connection that the full V5 must have gone out in the first place.

But why would they care? Their job is to take care of UK registrations, in exactly the same way as it is our VROs job to deal with ROI registration issues. It would seem obvious to me that, before importing a car into Ireland, one would check with the Irish VRO what they needed to register the car in Ireland.

Gerry

Yeah, I'm the poor sod who posted that on the bmw forums.
I've bought 3 uk registered cars at this stage, the first one came with the full v5, 2nd came with just section 10. I stupidly let the seller keep the rest. A month long battle ensued. For the 3rd car, I argued for half an hour, repeatedly related the story of the previous car, until I got the full v5.

To summarise: Before going over to buy the car, get the dealer to agree to hand over the full v5. Email them a link to the vro website if necessary. If this isn't done, you will more than likely be entering a world of pain.
Dealers in the uk often fail to grasp the concept of the republic of ireland being a separate jurisdiction to the uk. So they will harp on and on about how much tax and m.o.t. the car has, which is no use to you legally, and as a further insult, the m.o.t. is far less stringent than the nct.

Tell them they can send in the notification of permanent export. It even says on the dvla website "You must take your Registration Certificate with you as you may have to hand it over to the relevant authority when the vehicle is registered abroad".

Anan1

Gerry wrote:

Yeah, I'm the poor sod who posted that on the bmw forums.
I've bought 3 uk registered cars at this stage, the first one came with the full v5, 2nd came with just section 10. I stupidly let the seller keep the rest. A month long battle ensued. For the 3rd car, I argued for half an hour, repeatedly related the story of the previous car, until I got the full v5.

To summarise: Before going over to buy the car, get the dealer to agree to hand over the full v5. Email them a link to the vro website if necessary. If this isn't done, you will more than likely be entering a world of pain.
Dealers in the uk often fail to grasp the concept of the republic of ireland being a separate jurisdiction to the uk. So they will harp on and on about how much tax and m.o.t. the car has, which is no use to you legally, and as a further insult, the m.o.t. is far less stringent than the nct.

Tell them they can send in the notification of permanent export. It even says on the dvla website "You must take your Registration Certificate with you as you may have to hand it over to the relevant authority when the vehicle is registered abroad".

For future reference, if you ask the seller to call Swansea before finalising the deal, Swansea will confirm to them that it is OK to give you the full V5, possibly less a small section to inform the DVLA that the car is being exported. This will then satisfy the Irish VRO, and everyone's happy.:)

IrishRover

Anan1 wrote:

But why would they care? Their job is to take care of UK registrations, in exactly the same way as it is our VROs job to deal with ROI registration issues. It would seem obvious to me that, before importing a car into Ireland, one would check with the Irish VRO what they needed to register the car in Ireland.

Well what I'm saying is that they must be aware that the Irish vehicle registration office needs the full V5, yet it definitely states on the V5 instructions which is quite clear about the seller retaining his section (and as far as I remember it actually says he must retain his section even if the car is being exported). You know the ads that reinforce this too by reminding sellers that they will be responsible for the new owner's fines if they don't keep it? I even found it very hard to convince a friend of mine there who I was buying a car from that I had to keep the whole V5 because as he pointed out the instructions said the opposite.

So I know you're saying it's not their job to tell people about the requirements of the country to which it is being exported, but they are already taking it upon themselves to do this, but are actually telling people the wrong information. I think it would be up to them to put a line in saying something like "if the car is being permanently exported the seller does not retain his section". I wouldn't think it should be beyond their remit to include instructions specific to exporting to the Republic of Ireland seeing as this will be the destination for the majority of cars exported from the UK I'd guess.

Gerry

Anan1 wrote:

For future reference, if you ask the seller to call Swansea before finalising the deal, Swansea will confirm to them that it is OK to give you the full V5, possibly less a small section to inform the DVLA that the car is being exported. This will then satisfy the Irish VRO, and everyone's happy.:)

Please read my post on the bmwcc forum, linked from the first post on this thread.
I asked the seller to post me the v5 ( after going to the vro ), and they said they were sending it to Swansea. (apparently) They had called Swansea, and had (apparently) been told by dvla, to send the full v5 to Swansea.
When I called Swansea, I was told that it was possible that the seller had been "given the wrong information". As you can imagine, I was fairly annoyed. When they finally did say they would post it on, they made it seem like a special favour. I'm not sure who was at fault, the seller or dvla, or possibly both.

Anan1

Gerry wrote:

Please read my post on the bmwcc forum, linked from the first post on this thread.
I asked the seller to post me the v5 ( after going to the vro ), and they said they were sending it to Swansea. (apparently) They had called Swansea, and had (apparently) been told by dvla, to send the full v5 to Swansea.
When I called Swansea, I was told that it was possible that the seller had been "given the wrong information". As you can imagine, I was fairly annoyed. When they finally did say they would post it on, they made it seem like a special favour. I'm not sure who was at fault, the seller or dvla, or possibly both.

Hi, I can't see that link. The point I'm trying to make is that it is the responsibility of the purchaser to make sure that they have everything required to register the car here. As the complete V5 is necessary to register the car here, the purchaser should make provision of same a condition of purchase. I have never finalised the purchase of a car without doing this and have consequently never had any problems.

IrishRover

Good for you

Gerry

Anan1 wrote:

Hi, I can't see that link. The point I'm trying to make is that it is the responsibility of the purchaser to make sure that they have everything required to register the car here. As the complete V5 is necessary to register the car here, the purchaser should make provision of same a condition of purchase. I have never finalised the purchase of a car without doing this and have consequently never had any problems.

Thats great for you.

Anan1

Gerry wrote:

Thats great for you.

Ah come on now, let's not be bitter!;)

Gerry

I'm not being bitter, I just felt I had to explain my story. I realised my mistake very quickly in not getting the full v5 at first, but that should only have been a minor inconvenience, i.e, I should have had the v5 in my hand a week later, using the postal system. But, because I was dealing with ignorance and idiocy, the resultant mess just got worse.

Anan1

Gerry wrote:

I'm not being bitter, I just felt I had to explain my story. I realised my mistake very quickly in not getting the full v5 at first, but that should only have been a minor inconvenience, i.e, I should have had the v5 in my hand a week later, using the postal system. But, because I was dealing with ignorance and idiocy, the resultant mess just got worse.

As you said in an earlier post, people have been conditioned not give the V5/VLC to the seller, but to post it back to the relevant licencing authority. I'm not sure that the people I bought cars from were too happy with giving me the V5 even after Swansea had confirmed it was OK; I had the impression that it was really the money in my hand that convinced them. In any case, hopefully this thread will save other people from that particular pitfall.

bkehoe

I'm just wondering what the problem is here? I'm in the same boat, and I'm certainly not upset about it. You've got a 1 month+ period before you have to pay the vrt. The DVLA will send on the V5 to you if the seller sends it to them, and the revenue will give you a covering note (which doesnt seem to have any time limit for it's validity).

Gerry

Dear god, did you read the thread? Obviously, not everyone will have as bad an experience as I did with it.
The 1 month thing is rubbish, the guards are not on the same page as revenue, but it is revenue who will ultimately seize your car, not the guards. From the vrt faq on the revenue website, here

2. When must I Register?

If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad you must register it and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival in the State.

The dvla will send you the v5, if they feel like it, depending on who you contact in there. The revenue covering note I got was valid for 2 weeks, then I had to go back in.

bkehoe

Yes, I did read the thread.

The VRO had no problem at all giving me my note (which doesnt have any time limit on it), and said they see the same thing several times a week, and that they realise it will take 4 - 6 weeks. Once you don't delibertly try and avoid the VRT, and come across as being genuine, then they'll react accordingly.

You've got to be patient with the DVLA. Even for within UK changes in registration, they'll take their 4 - 6 weeks to send the V5 out. They'll send the v5 out as soon as they process (or fail to, in our case) it, no intervention required...

digitaldr

In my case the note from the VRO was valid for 1 month - maybe they judge the time limit on haw dodgy you look! I have to say the DVLA are slow compared to Shannon. I recently had to got a duplicate log book (or what ever you call it these days) and also got one for the car I imported - both took 2-3 days.

netwhizkid

Update

After Much bungling by the DVLA and I suspect Royal Mail.

Eventually today my Certificate of Permanent Export Arrived. I posted the Form exactly today month ago, June 21st. I had phoned them up that day and they said print down the form and send it into us. I did just that. They told me that I had made a blunder and should have held onto my V5C (Vehicle Registration Certificate) and just filled in the part for permanent export and detached it and sent it into them and the rest of the V5C would have done me and the Irish Authorities. Instead my dopey car dealer left me with the part that should have gone into the DVLA, the New keeper supplement (section 10) and the Notification of Permanent Export (Section 11).

I rang them about two weeks ago wondering would it be long more to go and they told me "Sir, We received your V5C (Vehicle Registration Certificate) from you car dealer three weeks ago and posted it out to you within three days of receiving it" The had sent me out the Vehicle Registration Certificate that my dealer should have given me anyway.

Murphy's Law then kicked into action and this was obviously lost in the post, Royal Mail and An Post :- Which is the lesser of two evils? Anyway they told me they had it flagged in their system and their was no need to issue me with a certificate of permanent export as I was issued a Vehicle Registration Certificate, as this was obviously lost they then issued me with a certificate of permanent export which had to rejoin the queue at the bottom, but anyway it came and now I'm as happy as larry, and will VRT the Beemer next week.

Word of Warning, Bring your Vehicle Registration Certificate with you when buying from the UK and detach the aforementioned Notification of Permanent Export (Section 11) and sent it to the DVLA and NOT the Vehicle Registration Certificate as my dealer done.

I arrived in Cork, Monday morning June the 12th and it will be 6 weeks this Monday since as a result. Of course part of the waiting is my own fault as I didn't originally decide to pay the VRT on the Car until a week and a half later. One month the DVLA took, still who cares and I am good form even though I got a rough "breaking in" with the paper work side of things with my first experience of "Importing from the UK" thanks fellas for all the help garnered and the original thread "Importing from the UK" was a massive help to me.

I anyone would like to create a new sticky of "official documentation: - what to know" I will gladly assist with my newly gained knowledge of the UK system. Irish and other Nations Documentation could feature, and sample scans with names number blanked out would be quite handy too.

MercMad

I suppose the VRT will have gone up in the last 6 weeks too......................:eek:

quarryman

All of the above happened to me too.

Took 6 weeks to get the V5 back from Swansea.

And do ya think I had managed to hold onto the VRT money that long?

It was a tough Chrimbo....

Rudolph Claus

Good you got is sorted Netwizzkid. So whats this 316 like? I was considering one, but bought a uk import civic coupe instead. Thank god i was given the full V5 though. Are you happy with it after all the hassle, any pics? Did you save much from bringing it in, or is it just thats its a better spec and less battered than an Irish one.

netwhizkid

Nuttzy wrote:

Good you got is sorted Netwizzkid. So whats this 316 like? I was considering one, but bought a uk import civic coupe instead. Thank god i was given the full V5 though. Are you happy with it after all the hassle, any pics? Did you save much from bringing it in, or is it just thats its a better spec and less battered than an Irish one.

The 316 is a complete peach to drive, it’s an automatic but man can she go, Not that I intend to drive fast. The car has 68,000mls which is practically nothing everything checked on the background search, no finance owing etc. I am well happy with it and it wasn't that much hassle.

The car is I reckon maybe one of 5 in the country. It is very rare to get a 316 with Leather seats (beautiful cream leather) and Climate Control Air Conditioning. Not just ordinary air-con where the air blows cold but you can adjust it stay at whatever temperature you like. Add to that it is Midnight Blue (A Navy type colour) metallic so it won't fade. It also has a brand spanking new JVC CD Stereo fitted.

All for the knock bottom price of £3,875 or €5,750 with €1107 VRT to Brian Cowen and I'm right. The car would easily sell for between €12,000 and €15,000 here If I was to break my heart and part with it. It is my dream car and I spent the last 3 yrs researching the whole thing and drawing up disaster and contingency plans. Everything went fine thank god.

Watch out World netwhizkid is going behind the wheel. :rolleyes:

bkehoe

It took exactly 4 weeks for my V5 to come back from the DVLA with no intervention on my part (was happy to let it happen in it's own time). There was no problem at all getting a covering note from the VRO as soon as I brought in my car - it took less than 2 minutes in the office and they said they give them out all the time.
In the meantime I was earning interest on 20k, the vrt came down by €60 and I've got an extra month of road tax. So, imho, I don't see the point in panicing if the seller sends the v5 back to the dvla.

Anan1

netwhizkid wrote:

All for the knock bottom price of £3,875 or €5,750 with €1107 VRT to Brian Cowen and I'm right. The car would easily sell for between €12,000 and €15,000 here If I was to break my heart and part with it.

Are VRT valuations really that low on that car? What year is it?

chicken_food

dont mean to sound sceptical netwhizkid, but if it cost you 6500 and you say you could sell it for 12-15k?! Id like to see some proof in what you say. I worked in the car industry for a while and those kind of figures are crazy talk. I just brought in a car myself and saved maybe 1500-2000 max. So id love to see a break down of ur figures. Im not thread bashing, i am genuinely interested. cheers

RoundyMooney

netwhizkid wrote:

The 316 is a complete peach to drive, it’s an automatic but man can she go,

Bollocks.

netwhizkid wrote:

Not that I intend to drive fast.

Bollocks.

netwhizkid wrote:

The car has 68,000mls which is practically nothing

True, service history dependant of course.

netwhizkid wrote:

everything checked on the background search, no finance owing etc. I am
well happy with it and it wasn't that much hassle.

Imports generally aren't, if the homework is done...

netwhizkid wrote:

The car is I reckon maybe one of 5 in the country.

Bollocks.

netwhizkid wrote:

It is very rare to get a 316 with Leather seats (beautiful cream leather) and Climate Control Air Conditioning. Not just ordinary air-con where the air blows cold but you can adjust it stay at whatever temperature you like.

Wow! Climate control? Like what where you select the temperature?

netwhizkid wrote:

Add to that it is Midnight Blue (A Navy type colour) metallic so it won't fade. It also has a brand spanking new JVC CD Stereo fitted.

All for the knock bottom price of £3,875 or €5,750 with €1107 VRT to Brian Cowen and I'm right. The car would easily sell for between €12,000 and €15,000 here If I was to break my heart and part with it.

Bollocks.

netwhizkid wrote:

It is my dream car and I spent the last 3 yrs researching the whole thing and drawing up disaster and contingency plans. Everything went fine thank god.

Bollocks.

netwhizkid wrote:

Watch out World netwhizkid is going behind the wheel. :rolleyes:

Indeed...

You live the american dream buddy with your 1.6 automatic...sigh...

Another "ads".

colm_mcm

That is hillarious! a 97 1.6 Auto for 15 grand!

makes my 2002 316ti 1.8 for 17950 seem cheap now!

(I shudder to think what car you had before if you find a 316 automatic fast)

netwhizkid

colm_mcm wrote:

That is hillarious! a 97 1.6 Auto for 15 grand!

makes my 2002 316ti 1.8 for 17950 seem cheap now!

(I shudder to think what car you had before if you find a 316 automatic fast)

Ok I grossly overestimated my car's value, however it was good fun watching other posters get all hot and bothered. €9,000 - €10,000 maybe €15,000 = Rip off Ireland.

As for cars before, well it is my first car, and being used to my parents pathetic Diesel Cars it seems nice. However it is the creature comforts etc. that I much prefer. I must say it will be a challenge to keep it good, as the cut of our roads is nothing short of a thundering disgrace. The council seems to have relegated all back roads to a nature reserve status and the should have all the hedges and ditches trimmed back. I have a blanket ban from driving my car on these roads except in life or death situations. Muppets then who come drive on these roads like the Indy 500 come on like they are a total mess.

I am officially now married to my car and it really has made my dream come true, my pride and joy it is, and God help the first fe*ker who tries to steal and damage it as was the case of an Ambulance Driver recently who was stabbed after rumbling some scum bags trying to steal his Beemer.

mike65

RoundyMooney careful now. Thats a lot of ballcocks.

Mike.