BG2:TOB Revisited

Sand

I got a real itch to redo the BG saga there before Christmas. I completed BG1, TOSC and BG2 but never completed TOB (Gave up in pure frustration when trapped by a game bug in Watchers Keep on the wrong side of a lot of really tough illithid encounters....). I gave my copy of BG2 to an ex-boyfriend of my sisters as a loaner (unfortunately the ex part got added during the loan period and the return never materialised...grrr) and my copy of BG was long since lost.

So I forked out something like 80 Euro to get copies of both back. Finished BG1/TOSC there early this year but only dipped into BG2 there in the last week or so. Ive got to say, its not the game I remembered. I was the sort of player whose tactics would revolve around "Hit it. Hit it again. If its still moving, run away. Then come back and hit it again". But I basically cleared the entire Hell area in the Planar Sphere quest in Chapter 2 with Yoshimo alone.

Ive always treated thieves as the "clear traps, open locks, shoot with bows" guys. Now Im using them to backstab mages, set traps (ludicrously, ludicrously, game breakingly powerful - dropping 16,000xp demons in 1 second flat, no exaggeration - I laughed in sheer amazement at how easily these tough guys toppled to Yoshimos traps) *and* do the above. Im really, really going to miss Yoshimo when hes taken. My entire style of play has changed. Ive also begun to use stuff like spell sequencers and contingencies with my spell casters. Its weird to me that this 4 or 5 year old game can offer so many, many tactical possibilities and abilities (Its clear that despite playing the game for ages back when it came out that I barely scratched the surface of what was possible). *And* a top class story to boot. Is there a CRPG that even begins to compare?

I was kinda surprised to see the Bioware forums for BG2 (and even BG1) are still active with people still discussing tactics, party makeup, quests, mods and so on. Is anyone here still playing it?

Raphael

I replayed it a while back, didn't complete it though

Zillah

I havn't played BG2 in a long time, but I have nothing but fond memories. Especially TOB. The final battle I had still makes me smile.

Zapp Brannigan

I have my own saga of BG2.

I bought it when it first came out and in order to delete it on my PC I had to delete some stuff to make space. So me, being all of 12, started looking for the biggest files and just started deleting them. So I have enough space and I install BG2, great! I restart my PC and it won't boot!! I think I deleted something to do with Windows 95 cos from that day on I didnt have it anymore!
As I had purchased the PC second hand I didnt have any of the install discs. Luckily enough my friend offered me his Windows 98 disc and I installed that. Litttle did I know that I'd need an authenticity code, which my friend had lost! So the whole PC thing was put on hold until another friend of mine found his code. I entered the code (illegal I know!) and got Windows 98 installed. Great I thought! Now I can finally play BG2.
But to my horror my PC could only display 16 colours. 16, not 16bit. It was ridiculous! Windows would not recognise my graphics card! I was disparate! I chucked it all in. Returned BG2 and never got to play it

Then 4 years later I get a brand new PC, and when I went games shopping I saw it. BG2 and its expansion! I was ecstatic, I purchased the game and rushed home to install it on my cool new PC (the one I currently still use). Installation was going fine, first disc installed, then I entered the second disc and the machine froze. Relax I thought, just reboot and try again. So I did that but again on the 2nd disc it froze. I decided it must be the disc so the next day I went back to the shop and asked for a different copy. I got my copy and, again, ran home to install. Same thing happened!
At this point I realised I was doomed never to play this game

But still I've just made a deal with someone in the FS section to sell me their copy, so hopefully there is someway I can get this game to work now!

humanji

After reading this thread I decided I may as weel play these again. I loved them. I see on play.com that a combo pack of both games and their add-ons is out on the 30th!

I have issues with the second game though. I've never finished it, because I'd keep getting well into the game and then for some reason, I'd delete it!! And so after a while I'd reinstall and do the same thing. Over and over this would go. I don't even know why I did it. Either I'm never meant to finish BG2 or I'm an idiot. I'm hopint it's the former!


Actually, has anyone played Icewind Dale? I never played, but it seems the same style of game (same makers I think), and was wondering if it's worth a shot?

Raphael

I played the demo of it. Fun game, but the one that that kinda bugged me was that you made your whole party. No NPCs, just six characters you've made yourself.

That said, it let's you completely customise the kind of people you have in your party

hotnipples

Slurms wrote:

I have my own saga of BG2.

I bought it when it first came out and in order to delete it on my PC I had to delete some stuff to make space. So me, being all of 12, started looking for the biggest files and just started deleting them. So I have enough space and I install BG2, great! I restart my PC and it won't boot!! I think I deleted something to do with Windows 95 cos from that day on I didnt have it anymore!

hahah, I've been there if it makes you feel any better, and I was about the same age too. On my mother's PC I needed to make room for another Half-Life mod or something and I went deleting all sorts of .DLL files in the windows folder. When it wouldnt boot up again I just strolled away from the PC whistling and looking as innocent as I could. The plan being was the blame it on pesky viruses

Zillah

Icewind Dale isn't nearly as good. Much more hacknslash, less story, and I think it uses the BG1 engine, not the BG2.

Zapp Brannigan

Icewind Dale 2 was quite enjoyable, it had Dual Wield....and Dark Elves. Oh how I wanted to be Drizzt!!

Creature

Sand wrote:

Ive always treated thieves as the "clear traps, open locks, shoot with bows" guys. Now Im using them to backstab mages, set traps (ludicrously, ludicrously, game breakingly powerful - dropping 16,000xp demons in 1 second flat, no exaggeration - I laughed in sheer amazement at how easily these tough guys toppled to Yoshimos traps) *and* do the above. Im really, really going to miss Yoshimo when hes taken.

Heh yeah some of the toughest enemies are useless against trap/spell exploits in that game. I still remember the joy on discovering just how powerful two mages and a sorcerer each with a chain contingency holding three Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting spells were .

Slurms:
There's a Baldur's Gate anthology type collection coming out soon. It's got both games and their respective expansion packs included in it.

Zapp Brannigan

Creature wrote:

Slurms:
There's a Baldur's Gate anthology type collection coming out soon. It's got both games and their respective expansion packs included in it.

I will most definitely be getting that!

humanji

Just ordered mine

And Creature, can you please change you sig pic! That film still scares the crap out of me *shiver*

Sand

Heh yeah some of the toughest enemies are useless against trap/spell exploits in that game. I still remember the joy on discovering just how powerful two mages and a sorcerer each with a chain contingency holding three Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting spells were

Yeah, the nuclear option - run a mage into the midst of a group of enemies, cast chain contingency, select 3 ADBHs triggered on enemy sighted, exit...boom. Havent got the levels to do it yet, but soon. Soon.

Also quite satisfying to take down a 26,000XP Liche with one well thrown axe 2 seconds after spotting him - Azureedge FTW!

I also managed to get 2 Celestial Fury's without really meaning to. Some bug where if an enemy pursues you off map, when you go back to the original map a duplicate is there too (at least it happened to me three times, but like I said I havent really tested it) - with all their items, hence Valygar's dual wielding CF combine harvester impression. Seems fair to me, had to kill the previous owner twice afterall.

Im enjoying this run so much Im already plotting my next run. Having discovered Keldorn is actually the best warrior type NPC you can get (with a few items, hes pushed Minsc out of my group) Im going to try playing through the game with NPCs I never rated before - Haer Daelis, Cernd, Jaheira, Jan and the likes to see if theyre as rubbish as I though they were.

Da Bounca

Go For The Eyes Boo Go For The Eyeees!! Artrrghh

Creature

Sand wrote:

I also managed to get 2 Celestial Fury's without really meaning to. Some bug where if an enemy pursues you off map, when you go back to the original map a duplicate is there too (at least it happened to me three times, but like I said I havent really tested it) - with all their items, hence Valygar's dual wielding CF combine harvester impression. Seems fair to me, had to kill the previous owner twice afterall.

Fair shmair thats just overkill :P

Sand wrote:

Im enjoying this run so much Im already plotting my next run. Having discovered Keldorn is actually the best warrior type NPC you can get (with a few items, hes pushed Minsc out of my group) Im going to try playing through the game with NPCs I never rated before - Haer Daelis, Cernd, Jaheira, Jan and the likes to see if theyre as rubbish as I though they were.

Yup thats the way to do it. I never understood people who play through the game using multiple times using the same characters just because they're used to them. I mean it's practically a new game with a new set of team mates, you know what's around the corner but not how to deal with it. Though you should always get Edwin. He's just too valuable and his side quest is too hilarious to ignore!

Sand wrote:

Jaheira, Jan and the likes to see if theyre as rubbish as I though they were.

I always thought Jaheria was pretty handy. She can hold her own in most fights and earth elemental summoning can be useful. Also Creeping Doom is surely the best way of combating mages in the game.

Zillah

Da Bounca wrote:

Go For The Eyes Boo Go For The Eyeees!! Artrrghh

Jump on my sword while you can evil! I won't be as gentle!

Creature wrote:

I always thought Jaheria was pretty handy. She can hold her own in most fights and earth elemental summoning can be useful. Also Creeping Doom is surely the best way of combating mages in the game.

"Weh weh Khalid, weh weh weh."

No, I didn't like Jaheira.

Raphael

Swashbuckler + Minsc + Aerie + Jaheira + Valygar + Imoen/Yoshimo

Jaheiras annoying, but her attempts at flirting are hilarious. And it's handy to have 2 healers in the party.

Sand

I never liked Jaheira - her abilities class/statewise arent exactly eyecatching and the way she mouths off...

Though you should always get Edwin. He's just too valuable and his side quest is too hilarious to ignore!

Yeah, I experimented with him there ( Im completing as many quests as I can in Chp2 including bringing each character in for a short while to complete their sidequests). Edwin seems very good, Ill come back for him I think. Hed have to take Aeries place and given her Priest/Mage buff combos(Stoneskin, MirrorImage, FireShield, Armour of Faith, Draw on Holy Might etc etc - she can even tank with simple spells like Sanctuary (stand her blocking in a doorway with Sanc on, hit enemy with bows/two handed sword....) she can be a very effective tank, so it would be a lot to give up.

I always thought Jaheria was pretty handy. She can hold her own in most fights and earth elemental summoning can be useful. Also Creeping Doom is surely the best way of combating mages in the game.

Keldorn is the best way of combating mages in the game imo with his dispels and true seeings. Viconia isnt too bad either (starts with 65% MR, items can take it over 100%) for soaking up their fire. Multiple cloudkills are pretty effective too. Jaheira just never did enough imo - there are better fighters, and there are better clerics. Even better druids (Cernd for one...) And less annoying ones too. Only plus she has imo is Harpers Call and the Harper related quests.

One thing Im also going to consider is installing a lot of the mods that are out there for BG2 - theres a lot of new NPCs, quests, Items andpowers - you were originally supposed to gain Bhaal powers in TOB every time you cleared a test (Pocketplane travel was the first). Bioware removed it because they figured it would confuse people to have so many special abilities. Then a developer unofficially reactivated it in a mod.

The Unfinished Business mod looks promising too - reactivates a lot of stuff Bioware cut for the final release, like quests relating to the Circus - what the villain in the Aerie quest was promised, who promised it etc. Mods for BG2 to allow you to play BG1 with the BG2 engine. Lot of stuff to dig into.

Khalim

I personally prefer an evil-aligned party myself.

With Korgan dual-wielding axes, Viconia in support, and Edwin for sheer magical power. To fill up the party, I tend to pick Jan.

The party tends to be smaller as the other npc's tend to whine if you start doing too much evil.

Regarding mods, I like the Ease of Use mod, altho some of the features would seem to be cheating.

Seems like it's time to load up the game again! (Now if I can only find the game...)

Zapp Brannigan

Just ordered the Compilation. I hope to God that BG2 will finally install, and if it doesnt I hope there's some workaround. Pray for me!

Sand

Icewind Dale 2 was quite enjoyable, it had Dual Wield....and Dark Elves. Oh how I wanted to be Drizzt!!

Call your character Drizzt and run the game with a low reputation for a nice encounter. The man doesnt react well to identity theft:)

I personally prefer an evil-aligned party myself.

Unmodded though, even evil parties need the nice cost reductions from high reps. Most "evil" NPCs are straight out stronger than their "good" equivalents though Viconia -Best cleric, Edwin - Best mage, Korgan - Best frontline fighter.

Id still take Keldorn over Korgan for his anti-mage capabilities though.

Zapp Brannigan

Sand wrote:

Call your character Drizzt and run the game with a low reputation for a nice encounter. The man doesnt react well to identity theft:)

Aw poo, don't have the game anymore! Now I want it, just so I can get destroyed by the man himself!

Creature

Sand wrote:

Call your character Drizzt and run the game with a low reputation for a nice encounter. The man doesnt react well to identity theft:)

Where in the game does this happen? Never heard anything like that before...
*begins re-installing IWD2*

Sand wrote:

Edwin - Best mage,

He's the only mage! Thats the one thing I always hated about BG2, that if you wanted a mage you had to take Edwin (bad if you're a purely good party) otherwise you're stuck with halfmages like Aerie who take forever to obtain 8th/9th level mage spells.

Also you're all way off the mark. Aerie is far more annoying than Jaheria any day.

humanji

Creature wrote:

Where in the game does this happen? Never heard anything like that before...
*begins re-installing IWD2*

It happens in BG2 and I think in BG1 as well, but I can't fully remember.

Zapp Brannigan

jomanji wrote:

It happens in BG2 and I think in BG1 as well, but I can't fully remember.

According to GameFAQS it happens in BG2 after you

meet Drizzt after the Underdark. and you need a reputation below 12

humanji

Slurms wrote:

According to GameFAQS it happens in BG2 after you

meet Drizzt after the Underdark. and you need a reputation below 12

Yeah and I think in BG1 I remember something about a side-quest in a forest where you have to go into a witches tower. To the south of the tower on the same map, you can hear a battle and it's Drizzt kicking ass. Can't be sure as it's been years since I played it.

Sand

Yeah and I think in BG1 I remember something about a side-quest in a forest where you have to go into a witches tower. To the south of the tower on the same map, you can hear a battle and it's Drizzt kicking ass. Can't be sure as it's been years since I played it.

Its the map with a small lake/cabin in the north center - Ogre killing quest there - and Drizzt is south of that in the very center.

Killing him is close to impossible.....fairly. Use an invisible charater to cast Animate Dead though and run away. For some reason, the skeletons will keep hitting him, but he stops fighting back when you cant see him. It may take 15 minutes, but theyll eventually chip away his 90 odd hitpoints.

He's the only mage! Thats the one thing I always hated about BG2, that if you wanted a mage you had to take Edwin (bad if you're a purely good party) otherwise you're stuck with halfmages like Aerie who take forever to obtain 8th/9th level mage spells.

Well...Imoen and Nalia are dual classed so theyre not slowed like multi-classed charaters. But Edwins the only one with 18 intelligence that allows him to cast 9th level spells. Though, it is possible to use Watchers Keep to boost either Imoen or Nalias int to 18 to allow them to reach full potential. Certainly this is what Im banking on in my current run. Crap that they make Imoen part of the storyline so that it feels odd leaving her out, but then dont make her excel so you dont feel like youre making a bad choice.

Creature

It happens in BG2 and I think in BG1 as well, but I can't fully remember.

Oh right. Yeah I already knew that. Thought Sand was referring to some scenario in IWD2.

Though, it is possible to use Watchers Keep to boost either Imoen or Nalias int to 18 to allow them to reach full potential. Certainly this is what Im banking on in my current run.

Well that is true but I wouldn't attempt Watcher's Keep until I have most of the main game done, making it a bit pointless really. So it's Edwin always for me. Anyway I don't count it as a proper run through of BG2 without meeting Edwina anyway...

humanji

Yippeeeeeeeee! The combo pack just arrived. Bang goes my social life (lucky I didn't have much of one! )

Zapp Brannigan

jomanji wrote:

Yippeeeeeeeee! The combo pack just arrived. Bang goes my social life (lucky I didn't have much of one! )

When did ya order it? Ordered mine on Sunday and it still hasn't arrived! Looks like no nerdiness for me until after Oxegen.

humanji

I ordered mine about two weeks ago. It was on pre-order then. I'd say you'd get yours soon enough.

humanji

BUGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Ok I got the combo pack from Play.com. I installed BG1 last night and it's add on and when I tried to start is, I was told that this game works in Canada and the USA only! WTF!!! I didn't get a chance to piddle about with it (I was pissed off and also my Boys From Brazil dvd arrived so I had to watch that). When I get home I'm going to try changing the region settings on my pc, but still why the hell shoulf I have to! Has anyone ever even heard of region specific games on the PC?

Rev Hellfire

Yeah it used to be done on the installers back in the day. Changing your region settings while installing should be enough and just reset them back after the install.

humanji

I'll give it a whirl. Still, a bit cheeky if you ask me!

humanji

Yep that works. I went the whole hog just to be sure. I changed the computer region, the keyboard layout and even the time zone to canada or us and installed the game. The I changed them all back and it works grand!

Zapp Brannigan

My game still hasnt come! Thought I'd have a nice package waiting for me on arriving home from Oxegen, but no! Rats!

humanji

Have faith. If you order it, it shall come! (hopefully). And so you you know, if you have the same region problem I had, you have to set your region settings (Start-->Control Panel-->Regional And Language Options) to US or Canada. Not sure if all of them have to be changed. Then you have to restart and install. Unfortunately, you have to start up with canadian or US settings to play the game, but the settings don't really do much, so I just leave them that way and I'll change them back when I finish the game (2 or 3 times!).

Rev Hellfire

Surely you only need the region changed while installing.

humanji

Sadly, no. I checks each time you start her up

Zapp Brannigan

Got it this morning! Gonna install it in awhile! Im so excited!

EDIT: Installed without a hitch, didnt have to change any region settings or anything! And now I'm off to geek heaven!

Sand

There are a load of exploits in this game - its fantastic!

Dragons are MR, so Cloudkills are hard to use against them. But Wands of Cloudkill bypass MR. Even better, use the Helm of Vailor to cast simulcrum and use the Simulcrums Wand of Cloudkill to do the deed, so you preserve the original. The dragons Heals, but when youve stacked 10 Cloudkills...he doesnt Heal fast enough.

Infinite, MR bypassing Cloudkills...Its wrong, and yet feels so right.

Can do the same with stuff like Arrows of Dispelling - get the simulcrum to fire his copies, keep the originals...

Use Sanctuary on your Cleric, Cast Blade Barrier, stand in and around oblivious enemies and cut them to shreds...

You can cast MR on a high MR enemy...it will reset the enemy MR to the MR granted by the spell, which will usually be lower by far. And I think, because its beneficial it will not be resisted. I havent tested this yet though...

On the other hand its neat to crack the "right" way to fight particular monsters like Beholders/Gauths. Used to despise them, thought they were wildly overpowered and plain cheats. But after a lot of experimenting with the CLUA console to summon guys to practise on theres a decent series of Buffs that will render them practically helpless (Freeaction C4 + Chaotic Commands C5 + Minor Globe of Invunerability M4 + Spell Immunity: Necromancy M5 for Gauths, Add a Deathward C4 and Spellshield M5 (Or their Anti Magic Ray will ruin your day) for Beholders. Lot of buffs to cast but stuff like Helm of Charm Protection, Shield of Harmony +2 and similar will substitute in as well.

Even simpler to use buffed summons to fight them, and direct the fight while hidden, cos beholders/gauths dont tend to use their gaze attacks on summons, as much anyway. They always prefer to target Party members. If no Party members are visible then they remain reluctant to "waste" their shots on summons

Mind you, Ill still be packing the Shield of Balduran for my trip to Spellhold. Feckers dont deserve any better!

Zillah

Sand, the way your brain works is astounding to me...