Heating Overhaul?

GreeBo

Hey all,
Ive been in my 2nd hand house a year or so now and with the recent great weather the heating/water situation is a bit of a pain in the arse.
Basically we either have to time the heating to come on in the morning to get some hot water (and thus heat up the house for no good reason) or we have to get up early and put on the immersion, which is a pain.
Also the immersion makes the water far too hot, the mixer tap is pretty much all the way over to cold to make it bearable. I guess its thermostat is inside the element somewhere?
So what I wanted to do was to but a timer to replace out current ancient heating timer and have it control both the heat and the water separately.
I know this is possible but I dont know how its done.
Do I simply need to run a loop down from the immersion through the timer and back to the actual heating element (or sink/bath switch) or is there more too it?
Im concerned that as the immersion has its own trip switch its running a high load and I dont want to just run a wire around the house into the timer if I shouldnt be. ( I dont mind getting someone in, but is it a plumber or an electrician I need!?)
We are also looking into replacing the gas boiler, its 15+ years old so I reckon very inefficient.
Right now the boiler turns itself on and of based on its own thermostat (as far as I can see) there is a motorised valve that seems to go serve no purpose (and also the actual motor is not attached to the valve. What would be controlling this vave, the room thermostat?
Any advice greatly appreciated, even if its just to tell me who I need to call and how much it might cost!
cheers!
Ive attached some pictures of the current boiler setup, in case it helps anyone...

311

I can help if you want .
If the valve head is off the valve it means the valve is shot.
depending on a few things it could probably isolate your radiators.
if the valve is situated in your hotpress/cylinder area ,you should be able to twist the valve manually 90 degrees,which will give you hot water only.

Again theres a few things it could be ,I'm on a breather from work at the moment but if your stuck with it give me a shout.

Brian.

De_man

GreeBo wrote:

Do I simply need to run a loop down from the immersion through the timer and back to the actual heating element (or sink/bath switch) or is there more too it?
Im concerned that as the immersion has its own trip switch its running a high load and I dont want to just run a wire around the house into the timer if I shouldnt be. ( I dont mind getting someone in, but is it a plumber or an electrician I need!?)

I had the exact same problem here, i connected a digital timer from the sink/bath switch to the heating element and it works fine - regarding the boiler i'm afraid i haven't a clue



a pint of plain is yer only man

de_man

311

I'm actually a registered gas fitter, for boiler breakdowns ,installations and maintenance .
I'm the one who calls when you your gas is turned off and it has to be fixed:D

As i say, if I can help I will ,I get a lot of help in other forums.

Brian.

TempestSabre

Is it difficult to fit the timer on the immersion? I assume its more expensive to do this than use the gas. We turn the thermostats for the central heating off and let the gas come on for 30 mins in the morning. Pity you couldn't put the timer on the gas, but only for water.

311

You can pick up a dial timer for very little ,the one with all the pins.
I always recommend people put a timer on their hot water ,if their heating is not piped for seperate hot water.
I think the most important thing of all is to try and heat your hot water when it's not completely cold.The initial heat needed for cold water is a lot more.

A sparks would stick a timer on fairly easy ,I wouldn't recommend messing around with cables in a hot press,unless your comfortable with it.


Brian.

GreeBo

Hey, thx for all the replies..
I dont have a problem sticking a timer on the immersion, but thats in the hotpress, I wanted to have a single timer (in fact I already have this digital timer that does water/heating) downstairs beside the boiler that I can jsut setup to do both spearately.

Is it normal to have a motorised valve on a single pipe?
I assumed that they would always be on a junction, so you have A or B or A&B open?
What would normally control a motorised value?
The wire from the actual motor disappears off somewhere, not the boiler, could it be the room thermostat?

311

The only reason you would have a three port valve ,is if the hot water cylinder stat was connected to the vavle.

power has to come from the clock ,otherwise the valve is energized 24/7

brian

GreeBo

well in our case the value is open and the motor is sitting (as in not connected) on top of the boiler.
I cant really tell where the power is coming from, pretty sure its not the boiler, but it could be the timer, though it would mean there is some funky loopy wiring going on...

So why would the valve be linked to the heating timer?
I mean why do you need a valve if you have a timer?

311

GreeBo wrote:

well in our case the value is open and the motor is sitting (as in not connected) on top of the boiler.
I cant really tell where the power is coming from, pretty sure its not the boiler, but it could be the timer, though it would mean there is some funky loopy wiring going on...

So why would the valve be linked to the heating timer?
I mean why do you need a valve if you have a timer?

I presumed you had a seperate hot water clock
If you have a seperate hot water clock ,there are two lives from it.
One to turn the boiler on and the other to energize and open the valve.

If you don't have a seperate hot water clock ,then there is either a thermostat in the hall area or a switch somewhere.
Either way ,the thermostat/switch should still be getting power from the live that powers the boiler then.

GreeBo

well we do have a timer on the boiler, I thought it just controlled the boiler/pump?
As far as I can tell the thermostat in the hall does nothing, no matter where I turn it it does not affect the heating/boiler and it doesnt move the motorised valve..

thanks for the replies, very helpful...

JamesM

GreeBo wrote:

well we do have a timer on the boiler, I thought it just controlled the boiler/pump?
As far as I can tell the thermostat in the hall does nothing, no matter where I turn it it does not affect the heating/boiler and it doesnt move the motorised valve..

thanks for the replies, very helpful...

Hi GreeBo, Brian has covered most things. I would think that the timer controls the boiler and pump. There may be another live from the timer going through the thermostat in the hall and back to the motorised valve. I know that this is not working now. Also there may be a live going directly to the motorised valve with a loop to the thermostat. On older valves, the power shuts off once the thermostat opens or shuts, so it does not always go through the timer. Are you sure that there is only one pipe from the top of the boiler and that is where the motorised valve is. There is no pipe coming out the other side of the boiler going to the hot water ? You don't have (or did have) a backboiler ? That would be another reason for a valve on the gas boiler side of the system.
I would just put a seperate timer on the immersion, not have wires running all over the place. Although you could probably get some kind of wirelss unit.
The cable from the motorised valve is quite short, so there must be a junction box close. If you are careful, you can check, with a phase tester to see what happens when you turn the timer off and on and also turn the thermostat up and down. Just some ideas !
Jim.