New Car's been clocked!!!!!?????

Jumanji

Ok,

V recently bought a new car. I love it, it's absolutely spotless, drives like a dream etc, couldn't fault it in any way except.........

It has 30k on the clock. Excellent, good low mileage. I drive quite a bit, so for eventual resale purposes this was quite important to me.

However, I recently had another inspection of the car. Open the bonnet, & under the lid was a dirty sticker, one which a garage stuck on when the oil was last changed. It was March '05, & at the time the car had 48K on the clock.

So, either the car has been clocked, or it was hit & a new bonnet was put on the car. I really don't think it was the latter, or if it was, an exceptional repair job has been done.

Also, no service books, etc came with the car.

Now, like I said:- I'm more than happy with the car, even with this bit of knowledge.

It wasn't bought of a main dealer or anything like that, but it was from a trader, not a private sale.

What would you do?

would you let it go, remove the sticker & continue to be happy with the car?
Would you contact the seller & let them know what you found? (If so, what would you say)
Or would you go straight by them & report the crime?

What's the chances of the trade person not knowing about the clocking, & it was actually the person they got it off that did the clocking?

The car was also slightly cheaper than the norm.

Are there any legal implications for me, etc?

Answers on a postcard please...

Big Nelly

Maybe contact the Garda to see what position you are in from a legal stance, or even your solicitor. No point doing anything until you find out if you can be found to be doing something illegal.

smash

Where did you buy it? I'd bring it back and demand money back, then report the dealer to the SIMI.

also what car is it, give more details.... Is it a Jap import?

Jumanji

TBH Steve06, for pride reasons, I'd rather not give too many details.
Cos this car was all I wanted, well one of it's type anyway, & now it seems to have a flaw & I don't really want people knowing.

It is a jap car, but not a jap import, i.e. it's one of our bog standard, run of the mill, tried, tested & trusted cars used daily in Ireland.

I bought it just outside Dublin.

I'm not sure that I want to take it back, because I still love the car

But, if I don't, & now that I suspect what I do, if it where to be the case & I sold it on (eventually), am I breaking the law?

What's the SIMI?

maidhc

You are entitled to demand your money back, or get damages of some description. If you dont get anywhere with the dealer one cheap way would be to seek the maximum amount possible through the small claims court (~2k, cant remember exactly) as the difference between a car with 30k and 50k. The fact some small claims court cases are often reported will serve as an extra incentive to settle.

Some of these "traders" are exceptionaly dodgy people. I was looking at an 02 Passat TDi 130 one day. The sticker said 60k, but if the the condition of the leather seats and wear around the arm rest and gearlever are anything to go by the car had twice that done.

At least if you buy from a franchised dealer they normally have too much to loose than to go clocking cars, these other lads tend to come and go regularly anyway.

jhegarty

Jumanji wrote:

But, if I don't, & now that I suspect what I do, if it where to be the case & I sold it on (eventually), am I breaking the law?

as you now know its been clocked, if the person buying asks the millage you would be obliged to tell them its been clocked.....

smash

Jumanji wrote:

TBH Steve06, for pride reasons, I'd rather not give too many details.
Cos this car was all I wanted, well one of it's type anyway, & now it seems to have a flaw & I don't really want people knowing.

I know how sh1t it is because I bought a car I wanted for years, then found out it had been clocked. I brought it back the minute I found out though.

Jumanji wrote:

What's the SIMI?

This is The Society of the Irish Motor Industry

Jumanji wrote:

But, if I don't, & now that I suspect what I do, if it where to be the case & I sold it on (eventually), am I breaking the law?

The last thing is that if you know the car has been clocked, you have to tell the next person who you sell it to.

prospect

You are obviously proud of the car. But it being clocked is no bad reflection of the manufacturer or the model. Nobody could say (for example) Toyota Corollas are crap, I know a guy who bought one and it was clocked, so they must be crap....

I'd take it back, because if they were willing to clock it, god knows what else they could have done! Maybe they took the 60K Mile oil change sticker off, but forgot to take the 45K sticker. Or maybe the front half of the car did 45K miles, but the back half only did 15K miles, so the average is 30K miles for the car!!!!!

Mr Magnolia

Big Nelly wrote:

Maybe contact the Garda to see what position you are in from a legal stance, or even your solicitor. No point doing anything until you find out if you can be found to be doing something illegal.

You obviously like the car and want to keep it regardless, so as Nelly says go and have a word with your solictior to see if you can get a few quid back

Vegeta

you now have to tell anyone you sell the car to that it has been clocked so if i were you i'd definitely be trying to get my money back, who cares if it was cheap, even if the dealer didn't clock it himself he is still responsible

Enright

Caceat Emptor - let the buyer beware!!
Did you ask the seller if the milage was genuine?
If yes and they confirmed it then you have a legal case, however if they gave an answer like "it is, to the best of my knowledge", then you have no comeback.

THings you can do, contact the last seller, their details are availabe as the origional owner of the car from the relevent licensing authority. Ask them what milage was on the car when they disposed of it, who they sold it on to, etc. ie if they sold it with 48k+ to the person who sold it to you, then you should have your solicitor contact the seller and you are entitled to the difference in value better the model of car you purchased with 30K and 48k+ on it.

You are in a prediciment, as you now suspect the milage is not genuine, you are oblidged to inform a prospective buyer of the car of this, if they ask. THis will have a bearing on the resell value when you eventually go to trade in the car or sell it.

Best of luck

TheMonster

Enright wrote:

Caceat Emptor - let the buyer beware!!
Did you ask the seller if the milage was genuine?
If yes and they confirmed it then you have a legal case, however if they gave an answer like "it is, to the best of my knowledge", then you have no comeback.

doubt thats the case - you don't have to check if something like the milage is genuine - its a given that it should be.

HelterSkelter

Did the sticker under the bonnet have a garage name on it? Could you contact the garage to verify if it was that car that was serviced there?

smash

Enright wrote:

Caceat Emptor - let the buyer beware!!
Did you ask the seller if the milage was genuine?

There's no need for this as "products must be of merchantable quality" Or if you have an ad print out from the internet or wherever he advertises, where he has stated the mileage that's all you need really because "goods must be as described"

Jumanji

Don't think it did, but I'll check that later.

Think it just said Mobil on it.

Lex Luthor

Jumanji wrote:

Ok,

V recently bought a new car..

How old is the car?

Jumanji

'02

Doolittle51

If the car had 48k on the clock back in March '05, you'd expect its 'real' milage to be about 60k now. If this is the case, it would be due a timing belt change. Not only is this costly to get done, but if the timing belt snaps, quite simply you're f***ed. (New engine usually required)

I'm not trying to worry you, but you must bear this in mind.

However, some cars have timing chains these days which don't need to be chnaged that often.

Henry Ford III

Another example of buying a car with no service history. I think this is madness.

Still if you still like the car, all is not lost.

zilog_jones

Enright wrote:

Caceat Emptor - let the buyer beware!!
Did you ask the seller if the milage was genuine?
If yes and they confirmed it then you have a legal case, however if they gave an answer like "it is, to the best of my knowledge", then you have no comeback.

But regardless of this, is tampering with the odometer not a criminal offence? And as others said, the mileage is still not "as described" so you'll still have a case in a small claims court. If you like the car that much and want to keep it, and are sure the only thing that's not geniune is the mileage, you should be entitled to some money back.

Moanin

zilog_jones wrote:

But regardless of this, is tampering with the odometer not a criminal offence? And as others said, the mileage is still not "as described" so you'll still have a case in a small claims court. If you like the car that much and want to keep it, and are sure the only thing that's not geniune is the mileage, you should be entitled to some money back.

Apparently clocking is not illegal if you are not selling the car on!

Stephen

Have a look at all the dodgy ads in the back of the buy and sell offering "mileage recalibration" services... the shady bastards.

pa daly

Ok I will tell you where you stand!!

Yes there is a term "buyers beware" but Im sure that is not applicable in this case!!

It is not a criminal offence to clock a car but it is against the law....and clocking is so wide spread that the sticker you found under the bonnet suggests that your car has almost certainly been clocked...

However you need to contact garages or anywhere else that has the milage logged in their records, above what it is now on your odometer...otherwise you do not have sufficient proof to confront the person who sold you the car..

If you get the evidence you have two options, either get money back (couple of grand) or all your money back and return the car!!!

Torak

Both mentioned before but worth commenting again:

Caveat Emptor does not apply because the mileage of a car is a direct contributing factor to the sale price and is listed on the bill of sale of the car. This is certainly the case in trade -> private sales anyway.
It is also used as part of the advertising of the car and is visually inspected by a buyer during the purchase. It is expected that the mileage on the clock is the correct mileage when inspected by the purchaser. It can't hurt to ask if its genuine, particularly if its two days after a primetime special , but it is not required.

Timing belt, Timing belt, Timing belt.. If you are keeping the car and going no further then get the timing belt changed immediately. If you don't know the mileage and the car has a timing belt then get it done...

LostinBlanch

Torak wrote:

Timing belt, Timing belt, Timing belt.. If you are keeping the car and going no further then get the timing belt changed immediately. If you don't know the mileage and the car has a timing belt then get it done...

Agree totally, unless you really want to have to change your engine!

Jumanji

Thankyou for all your advice guys.

I'll get the timing belt done right away.

But, if I do ring the guy up, like, what do I say to him?

What if he tries to tell me he knew nothing about it & sold it as a genuine car?

(& what if the poor soul is actually telling the truth?)

zilog_jones

As pa daly said, you need to get some more solid proof of previous mileage recordings - a sticker isn't really enough...

prospect

Best thing to do is contact the last owner. If they sold/traded it with higher mileage, you can be fairly sure the seller clocked it, and pleading innocent won't work.

As said above, get the solid proof from service/nct records (the previous owner may have NCT documents). Another dodgey sign is if the previous owner gave the NCT documents to the garage, but they didn't pass them on to you in turn.