Totally fed up with husband (longish)

LegacyUser

I will get straight to the point, as I need advice and hopefully someone to confirm I am not nuts....

My husband and I with our 3 children moved here to Ireland from another country nearly four years ago, due to a lot of aggravation and stress involving one dead father (mine) and an interfering mother (mine again)very very long story

We actually went to his birth country first with a lot of money (fought tooth and nail for) from my late father.Basically we just upped and left.

The decision was a joint one. All the money we had, and it was a substantial amount, was invested in his brothers painting/decorating business which went bust, and on living expenses, as we literally left where we were living previously in the space of a week.(Joint decision again).We stayed nearly 10 months and watched the money run out He was offered work in Dublin via a friend which he took, and we joined him a few weeks later.
Big struggles financially, but with me working part time also we just about manage to pay the rent and buy food. Just.

Life in general is very crap - he works when I am off,I am at work on his day off, and I appreciate he has to work the long hours he does but we rarely see each other. If I don,t wait up till late for him to get home, we would literally pass each other in the hallway every morning and say hello, and that is it.Can't afford to buy a pair of socks, or the kids an ice lolly.These last 4 years have been dreadful.So a lot of stress, financial especially, which obviously spills over into other areas.

Fast forward to two months ago - big row between us about the way he spoke to one of the kids, I felt he was WAY out of order and told him so, he acts like he doesn't care.Lots of sleeping on the sofa (him, I'm afraid to say) and me saying that if he didn't make the effort with his children we shouldn't bother.Atmosphere very tense, me in tears a lot of the time.

Fast forward again to three weeks ago where I am informed that he has taken on a business venture, alone and without discussion with me, borrowed a great deal of money to get it going,all in his name( I have not been consulted nor included in any decision making)It is all a done deal.Signed, sealed and delivered.

I am so angry I am speechless.Apparently it is so we can *all* benefit.And then I discover that this whole *thing* had been discussed with various friends of his, all before I knew anything about it. I am just LIVID.
If I had been consulted, I would have either encouraged or discouraged, I don't know really, as I now cannot think straight.

I can see why he thought it would be a good idea, but I feel I should have had some input at the very least.

I feel like telling him to take his business and go to hell- it is his problem.He has since asked me to help with various bits and pieces and I bloody well don't feel like it AT ALL. And then I am accused of not being supportive for the good of our family.

I can elaborate more if asked, but I just don't think I am being as unreasonable as I am being accused of being.

seamus

While there's no good reason for him to have not discussed this with you, clearly it's a symptom of what you've pointed out already - there's been little to no real communication between you for a long period of time. It's even possible that in the last two months, he's considered your relationship functionally dead - you're both just doing it for the kids.

At this stage, I think you have two options.
1. Sit on the fence, see how it turns out and hope for the best.
2. Get up to your elbows in it. You've had this thrust upon you, but for your own sake, and the sake of your kids you can't really refuse to participate.

It is a tough one. Regardless of what was going on, you should have at minimum been included in the decision-making. And if you weren't then, you definitely should be now. Any personal money that needs to go into this business, you should be involved. Any personal assets that need to be tied up in it, you have to be involved.

r3nu4l

It's a horrible situation but you really do need to start communicating again. At one time you were both there for each other and you can be again.

I imagine that both you and your husband have felt a long period of low self-worth. Perhaps, his business idea is his way of trying to take control of his life, perhaps he feels that you wouldn't care anymore. Maybe he thought that if the business went bust, he would be the one to suffer most and shoulder the responsibility.

Either way, this has been done, talk to him about the business. Listen and see if you thinkt he basic idea is good. If it is encourage him and offer to help or tell him that for now you will use your wages to keep things ticking over. He may be grateful!

If you think this idea could work, then ask if you can get involved. So far as I know every company must have two shareholders (not stock exchange shares) therefore if he has formed a company somebody else is named as the other shareholder! If the company is not a limited company, encourage your husband to make it one. If you are getting involved say that you want to be a named shareholder (this will entitle you to profits should the worst happen and you decide to split up).

It's a terrible situation but if you can find the strength to salvage some of the love you oince had then do so. He needs to play his part too though! There is no point in you putting in all the effort if he does not. I must say that your husband was wrong to do what he did, incredibly wrong and I can understand your shock, hurt and disappointment. If your husband will talk, you have a good chance of resolving things. Remind yourselves of what you used to feel for each other.

Marksie

It seems that the communication breakdown is the big thing here and that you are understandably hurt and upset at not being included.

It is entirely possible that what he did he did with the best of intentions, but by not including you in the process it is seriously jepordising the family situation.

There are relationship counsellors available who may be able to help if you can both go for mediation.

The strain of the last four years has obviously told.

It IS obvious, that if you are to salvage the relationship you have to sit down and talk in a reasonable non provocative manner, and that is where a counsellor or mediator can help.

With Irish scoiety as it is going, this is going to become a greater issue for more and more couples.
Have you considered moving back to where you originally came from? or is the situation just as bad in that country?

I wish you well

azezil

Perhaps he felt this may have been a way to alleviate the stress you're experiencing due to your financial problems and wanted to surprise you?

I'm not saying I agree with his thinking, but its not unlike certain members of my own family would try.

I would think he means well, I think you should try seeing things his way, be supportive but, in a calm collected manner, make him aware that you don't appreciate him taking on a loan without your consent, it was wrong of him to do but at the same time, what’s done is done.

koneko

I don't really have any advice other than what people have already said, but I can really see why you're angry. Taking on a big venture, discussing it with his friends, but no mention of it to you? That's insane. It's all well and good for him to get angry at you now and say you're not supportive, for a venture he didn't even include you on in the first place. Madness.

But, what's done is done, and staying angry over it won't help anyone. Have you had a proper sit down and told him how that made you felt, and to talk about all the problems to see where you both stand, and what you should do?

Fanny Cradock

it seems like you marriage is in a bit of a crisis at the moment. it would be better to seek help now from a marriage counsellor rather than leave it be. because, being horribly blunt, at this rate it doesn't sound like you guys will be married much longer.

a small suggestion would be putting a night aside once a week for just the two of you. go to the cinema or for a walk etc. just like when you first started going out. avoid discussing anything that could lead to an argument and try reconnect instead.

Darragh29

Fanny Cradock wrote:

because, being horribly blunt, at this rate it doesn't sound like you guys will be married much longer.

There is another way of looking at this... I think you guys are doing extremely well to have stayed together through all of this. You must have something very substantial at the centre of your relationship to be able to weather what sounds like a long period of financial difficulty. These are the kind of problems that would send a couple under in less than a year. Having read your OP, I didn't pick up any talk of walking away or just giving up on each other.

I think your husband will come to understand that if he is getting involved in a start-up business, we will need every bit of help he can get, especially from you and he probably should have gone about it differently. Having said that, the type of people who start-up small businesses tend to just "go at it". It is likely that given your current financial situation, the last thing you would want to do is put yourselves in more debt and take a big risk with a start-up business. Then on the other hand, he probably would love nothing more dearly than be able to lift his own boat in the rising tide that we are all apparently swimming/struggling in these days and get a better income and quality of life for you and the family.

I don't know if any of the above made sense, but I certainly wouldn't give up on him, he is doing his best and he is after taking a risk for you and the kids, something most people are afraid to do in their lifetime, a lesser man would be drinking or gambling the money away, trying to block out the reality of having financial difficulties. I recently started up my own business and it didn't work out and I'm not married and have no kids, so the choice was all mine I suppose you could say. It would take a lot of guts and determination to do this with a family and I imagine he will be very driven to make it work out for you all. I think this guy is making a go for it in a society where it's every man for himself and he feels like he is working hard but getting nowhere at the end of it all at the moment.

I know you are quite upset at how he made the decision to do this but I imagine you would not have agreed with him if he ran all this by you and he would interpret this as him being consigned to continue going on the way you are going, working hard but for what, effectively stuck in the rat race and the two of you arguing over it for the next three years??? I imagine he has seen that a major left turn is what is needed to improve the circumstances for his family, I'm not saying you'd be right to agree to him starting up a business on his own, it is a huge risk but he probably thinks that if he can make it work, you'll come around to the idea and the initial risk involved and his failure to consult you will be well worth it...

Give him a chance, get over the fact that he didn't consult you on his decision to start up a business, (but makes sure that he consults you on everything to do with his business going forward), and stand full square beside him is my advice, if you want to get out of the rat race, you will have to accept that major change has to happen. In a way you're lucky that your husband is up to the challenge of bettering his circumstances, it could be a lot worse I think.

LegacyUser

Sorry to hear that.

So, what about a bit of marriage councelling ?

I must admit - coming back to Oireland can be a bit of a shock to the system for a start. Everything is soooo expensive - no wonder you have little money.
Not to mention the raft of objectionable things which the likes of the church, politicians, legal profession etc get up to. Oirish solutshuns fur Oirish problems ...

Cinamon Girl

I totally know where you are coming from with the financial situation you are in. I went through similar times, living on the breadline, for a few years. It is horrible. But I think if your husband is a hard worker and this business venture is a sound one then things can only get better for you.

Communication is important, but moreso I think you need to get out of that rut of not having any money to spend on yourselves or your kids. It is the most stressful thing that anyone can go through. No-one can expect to have a good relationship when you have to deal with that kind of stuff. But he is making an effort and probably went ahead without telling you because he though you wouldn't agree to it. He most likely saw it as the only way to make things better.

Give it a chance, see how things go.

LegacyUser

Thanks for your input

First off, my husband still maintains that there is no problem - he says he had to make a decision and that is that. He claims he didn't discuss it with me as we were not on "speaking terms" at the time. Fair enough, he was on the sofa a few nights and we had had a massive row a few days before, but in my book that is not an excuse.

We had a semi-discussion yesterday evening and I said that I was very angry but if he wants me to be involved, I will - but in equal measure to him. That means I have the right to give my opinion, and the right to make decisions jointly.

Or else not at all - he was on his own.

Well as you can probably guess the answer was NO.

His thing only - my involvement is to be what he deems necessary or can't do himself - paperwork and such, but no involvement in day to day running, staff etc.

Lease is in his name only, business account in his name only, decision to actually do the feckin thing - the whole thing is his. I am very hurt.
I realise that he is taking a risk - Darragh29 -but the risk affects ALL the family, not just him.

I have thought it over and I am willing to be involved- but it appears that it has to be on HIS terms only. Not acceptable to me in any way shape or form.

Any sort of discussion now is made much more difficult due to the fact that he has to travel a fair distance now to get there, and finish very late. Seven days a week, with one or two nights over.

Slutmonkey57b

livid and upset wrote:

Thanks for your input

First off, my husband still maintains that there is no problem - he says he had to make a decision and that is that. He claims he didn't discuss it with me as we were not on "speaking terms" at the time. Fair enough, he was on the sofa a few nights and we had had a massive row a few days before, but in my book that is not an excuse.

We had a semi-discussion yesterday evening and I said that I was very angry but if he wants me to be involved, I will - but in equal measure to him. That means I have the right to give my opinion, and the right to make decisions jointly.

Or else not at all - he was on his own.

Well as you can probably guess the answer was NO.

His thing only - my involvement is to be what he deems necessary or can't do himself - paperwork and such, but no involvement in day to day running, staff etc.

Lease is in his name only, business account in his name only, decision to actually do the feckin thing - the whole thing is his. I am very hurt.
I realise that he is taking a risk - Darragh29 -but the risk affects ALL the family, not just him.

I have thought it over and I am willing to be involved- but it appears that it has to be on HIS terms only. Not acceptable to me in any way shape or form.

Any sort of discussion now is made much more difficult due to the fact that he has to travel a fair distance now to get there, and finish very late. Seven days a week, with one or two nights over.

I think there's another side to this problem you need to look at as well as your own anger at his actions, and you need to review not only what he's doing now, but what he did in the past, and more importantly, what your part in it is. You are very vocal on his failings, but there are two sides to this "partnership" that you feel he has betrayed: your own failings.

He started up a business without you, and you feel betrayed. Is that worse than you giving him the ultimatum "do things how I want with the kids or get out!"? That's a ridiculous statement to make, and if you can honestly stand in the mirror and say that you've never once said the wrong thing to the kids, or used the wrong tone of voice, or got frustrated, or made a mistake, then you're perfectly at liberty to say he deserves to be thrown out of the house, or told to sleep on the couch. I'd be very suprised if you can do that.

You complain that you hardly ever see him and that makes you unhappy - do you not think he felt the exact same thing? This is not a guy who's been doing the classic Irish father act of up to work, straight down the pub, back at 3am to beat the wife round, is it? This is a guy who put all his effort into his family, sunk all his money into his family, supported you through your family problems, and is now taking a risk after 4 years nose to the grindstone to try and get his family out of a rut. He probably feels just as betrayed by your behaviour as you do over his. You dictated to him that he wasn't pulling his weight - true or not. You dictated he wasn't a functional part of the family and that he should be punished - either by sleeping on the couch or being thrown out of the house. You are now dictating that you should have a part in all his future ventures - having given him two months of "you're not part of the family" treatment.

Frankly I'm not suprised he did this, and I think he certainly doesn't deserve the treatment he's been given. You seem to be blaming him for the pressures you've faced over the past few years, and there's clearly a lot of resentment. You need to take a serious look at what he's actually been doing as opposed to what you think he's been doing.

Slutmonkey57b

livid and upset wrote:

I have thought it over and I am willing to be involved- but it appears that it has to be on HIS terms only. Not acceptable to me in any way shape or form.

But it was acceptable for you to dictate the terms of how the children should be disciplined? You're suprised he is not doing things on his terms without getting you involved? I'm not. It's a very common reaction for some people to say that what they want is what we or "the family" wants - in actual fact they are looking for justifications for their own selfish behaviour. Isn't this true for both of you?

smash

After your inheritance from you father was blown on his brothers business, I would have though he could have at least talked to you about his new business deal, if it goes under it sounds like you'll be in major money trouble.

Darragh29

livid and upset wrote:

Thanks for your input

First off, my husband still maintains that there is no problem - he says he had to make a decision and that is that. He claims he didn't discuss it with me as we were not on "speaking terms" at the time. Fair enough, he was on the sofa a few nights and we had had a massive row a few days before, but in my book that is not an excuse.

We had a semi-discussion yesterday evening and I said that I was very angry but if he wants me to be involved, I will - but in equal measure to him. That means I have the right to give my opinion, and the right to make decisions jointly.

Or else not at all - he was on his own.

Well as you can probably guess the answer was NO.

His thing only - my involvement is to be what he deems necessary or can't do himself - paperwork and such, but no involvement in day to day running, staff etc.

Lease is in his name only, business account in his name only, decision to actually do the feckin thing - the whole thing is his. I am very hurt.
I realise that he is taking a risk - Darragh29 -but the risk affects ALL the family, not just him.

I have thought it over and I am willing to be involved- but it appears that it has to be on HIS terms only. Not acceptable to me in any way shape or form.

Any sort of discussion now is made much more difficult due to the fact that he has to travel a fair distance now to get there, and finish very late. Seven days a week, with one or two nights over.

Yeah I can see now why you are livid. It's one thing not consulting you on starting up, but it's a different thing entirely if he thinks he can now go it alone and exclude you from making a success of it, or worse again, only involving you for tasks he couldn't be arsed doing hinself, such a paperwork, etc.

You will find, (because I've seen this before again and again), that when the sh1t hits the fan and someone calls in sick or something serious happens where he find himself stretched for resources, (and trust me, it'll happen very regularly with a start-up business), he'll expect you to stand up to the occasion and get stuck in to get him out of a hole, so he may as well involve you fully and properly from the start instead of running to you on a crisis by crisis basis.

If he can't do this, my advice to you is to be firm and have absolutely nothing to do with the entire project. Also, make sure you start working on an established documented protocol for dealing with decision making and how to deal with dissent and differences of opinion which are goin to happen from time to time. A recent approach is to adopt a family charter. This approach merges two cornerstones that allow a family business to operate and grow effectively. It couples a Partnership Agreement between family members who are involved with a Strategic Business Plan with the Family Charter connecting up the whole lot. With a strategic business plan, there is substantially less liklihood for serious disagreement on things like the direction and growth of the business because everyone involved knows the direction the business is taking and can put their weight behind it. The partnership agreement formalises otherwise loose arrangements and provides for stable decision making either by consensus or by other means.

I've seen the outcome of this situation on more than one occasion and people regretting they ever got involved in a family business because one person was obsessed with having full control over the business and there was no room for the opinions, endeavours or hard work of others.

LegacyUser

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

IHe started up a business without you, and you feel betrayed. Is that worse than you giving him the ultimatum "do things how I want with the kids or get out!"? That's a ridiculous statement to make, and if you can honestly stand in the mirror and say that you've never once said the wrong thing to the kids, or used the wrong tone of voice, or got frustrated, or made a mistake, then you're perfectly at liberty to say he deserves to be thrown out of the house, or told to sleep on the couch. I'd be very suprised if you can do that. .

Slutmonkey57b - I am astonished at your aggressive response..I never gave any ultimatum, nor did I say in my post that I did. I found it unacceptable the way he spoke to one of our children. I would rather not go into details unless pressed but lets just say that there were a lot of personal insults and threats to our child that were very hurtful and totally uncalled for.Maybe said in temper, but unforgivably nasty.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

You complain that you hardly ever see him and that makes you unhappy - do you not think he felt the exact same thing? This is not a guy who's been doing the classic Irish father act of up to work, straight down the pub, back at 3am to beat the wife round, is it? This is a guy who put all his effort into his family, sunk all his money into his family, supported you through your family problems, and is now taking a risk after 4 years nose to the grindstone to try and get his family out of a rut..

I am pretty certain that he is feeling miserable at having to work long hours- but I work TOO.I put in a lot of effort for my family.I have 3 children to look after.Caring for and about your family is not just financial.We have BOTH sunk our money into this family, and a lot of (technically)MY money was sunk into his brothers business which didn't work out.I say technically because my money is ours, and it should be vice versa.You say he supported me through my family problems - how on earth do you KNOW???

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

He probably feels just as betrayed by your behaviour as you do over his. You dictated to him that he wasn't pulling his weight - true or not. You dictated he wasn't a functional part of the family and that he should be punished - either by sleeping on the couch or being thrown out of the house. You are now dictating that you should have a part in all his future ventures - having given him two months of "you're not part of the family" treatment..

I really don't know how you have come to these conclusions!

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Frankly I'm not suprised he did this, and I think he certainly doesn't deserve the treatment he's been given.

I really don't know what to say to that response

LegacyUser

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

But it was acceptable for you to dictate the terms of how the children should be disciplined? You're suprised he is not doing things on his terms without getting you involved? I'm not. It's a very common reaction for some people to say that what they want is what we or "the family" wants - in actual fact they are looking for justifications for their own selfish behaviour. Isn't this true for both of you?

I really have not dictated anything to anyone up until the point I said I want to be fully invoved in this busines 50/50 or not at all.
And yes I suppose that is sort of an ultimatum.

LegacyUser

Darragh29 wrote:

Yeah I can see now why you are livid. It's one thing not consulting you on starting up, but it's a different thing entirely if he thinks he can now go it alone and exclude you from making a success of it, or worse again, only involving you for tasks he couldn't be arsed doing hinself, such a paperwork, etc.

A recent approach is to adopt a family charter. This approach merges two cornerstones that allow a family business to operate and grow effectively. It couples a Partnership Agreement between family members who are involved with a Strategic Business Plan with the Family Charter connecting up the whole lot. With a strategic business plan, there is substantially less liklihood for serious disagreement on things like the direction and growth of the business because everyone involved knows the direction the business is taking and can put their weight behind it. The partnership agreement formalises otherwise loose arrangements and provides for stable decision making either by consensus or by other means. .

Sounds very USA! don't really get it...Well yes I do but its not gonna happen.
My only option is to not have ANYTHING to do with anything.

bug

steve06 wrote:

After your inheritance from you father was blown on his brothers business, I would have though he could have at least talked to you about his new business deal, if it goes under it sounds like you'll be in major money trouble.

Eh yeah big time...

what on earth was he investing in a painting and decorating business for anyways? Was he directly involved in it? Hardly blue chip with high returns now was it?

Do you mind me asking what sort of business he is into now or would you rather not say?
I think it would be perfectly valid to say to him that two heads are better than one on this one considering your "bad luck" in the past. Also it might be something that you could work on together.

Your married. If it involves a risk to your kids and you're family I think your intitled to know the risk involved Especially since there seems to be no back-up money or otehr wise if it falls apart.

His attitude is up his ar*e if you ask me. You have to try this from another angle. Because from what you've said, doesnt seem like he has much money savvy.

bug

Darragh29 wrote:

Yeah I can see now why you are livid. It's one thing not consulting you on starting up, but it's a different thing entirely if he thinks he can now go it alone and exclude you from making a success of it, or worse again, only involving you for tasks he couldn't be arsed doing hinself, such a paperwork, etc.

You will find, (because I've seen this before again and again), that when the sh1t hits the fan and someone calls in sick or something serious happens where he find himself stretched for resources, (and trust me, it'll happen very regularly with a start-up business), he'll expect you to stand up to the occasion and get stuck in to get him out of a hole, so he may as well involve you fully and properly from the start instead of running to you on a crisis by crisis basis.

If he can't do this, my advice to you is to be firm and have absolutely nothing to do with the entire project. Also, make sure you start working on an established documented protocol for dealing with decision making and how to deal with dissent and differences of opinion which are goin to happen from time to time. A recent approach is to adopt a family charter. This approach merges two cornerstones that allow a family business to operate and grow effectively. It couples a Partnership Agreement between family members who are involved with a Strategic Business Plan with the Family Charter connecting up the whole lot. With a strategic business plan, there is substantially less liklihood for serious disagreement on things like the direction and growth of the business because everyone involved knows the direction the business is taking and can put their weight behind it. The partnership agreement formalises otherwise loose arrangements and provides for stable decision making either by consensus or by other means.

I've seen the outcome of this situation on more than one occasion and people regretting they ever got involved in a family business because one person was obsessed with having full control over the business and there was no room for the opinions, endeavours or hard work of others.

good god man. Do you give advice on this stuff for a living? Family Charter?
My family have a sucessful business that has been running for more than 26 years. If anything its brought them all together. Since they respect each other's opinions and even when that fails .. they respect each others reliability and intelligence. We've all chipped in sometimes with our own skills even though we werent on the payroll - just to keep it going on occaison because it was an asset to us all that fed us.

In this case perhaps respect and judgement is out the window. Why doesnt he want her involved 50/50. I would like to hear what the OP's thinking is...

and we had a fight, and werent talking so I didnt tell you about the business... makes as much sense as we had a fight and werent talking so I decided to sell the house from under us and move to trinidad....

there has to be a strong base in any joint venture. Marriage/ Business anthing... looks like yours is failing at the minute.

Nowadays IMO when people get married and have kids their security, are inextricably linked. I mean, I would imagine if they own a house her name is on the mortgage. I imagine she helps pay the bills all, and isnt spending her money from a part time job on massages and creams.... why shouldnt she have a say? When her income came to her she didnt hesitate in supporting the two of them with it.

MojoMaker

What country is your husband from OP?

Marksie

Having lost your money in one venture. It is madness for him to exclude you from this venture.

Not knowing the exact circumstances of his business its hard to make a call.
But the bottom line is he is not a single guy free to take his chances.
He has responsibilities.

The travelling and 24/7 nature of the business will drive a wedge fruther into the marriage if you are not careful.

I think you need to get professional advice to be honest.

Slutmonkey57b

livid and upset wrote:

Slutmonkey57b - I am astonished at your aggressive response..I never gave any ultimatum, nor did I say in my post that I did. I found it unacceptable the way he spoke to one of our children. I would rather not go into details unless pressed but lets just say that there were a lot of personal insults and threats to our child that were very hurtful and totally uncalled for.Maybe said in temper, but unforgivably nasty.

I'm not trying to be aggressive here. I'm trying to present an alternative viewpoint. Actually in your original post, you said

me saying that if he didn't make the effort with his children we shouldn't bother

That isn't an ultimatum? Or dictating the terms of your marriage? You have a strange definintion. In your post, you didn't state what he said, or what the circumstance was, you just said you thought he said the wrong thing. I'll repeat, if you can stand in front of the mirror and genuinly say that you have never, not even once, said the wrong thing, or used the wrong voice, or lost your temper then either you're not being honest or you're not living in the same parenting universe as the rest of us. Nobody gets it right all the time.

I am pretty certain that he is feeling miserable at having to work long hours- but I work TOO.I put in a lot of effort for my family.I have 3 children to look after.

But you're giving him hassle for it. Is he giving you hassle for having to work too? Does he put in no effort? Is he a fully qualified stockbroker who's working as a dishwasher and not putting in the effort or something? Does he not look after the kids as well? It sucks, but you can't have it both ways.

Caring for and about your family is not just financial.We have BOTH sunk our money into this family, and a lot of (technically)MY money was sunk into his brothers business which didn't work out.I say technically because my money is ours, and it should be vice versa.

If caring about your family is not just financial, why are you so hung up on it? Language gives you away, as George Carlin says. Is he that bad of a father with his kids on a day-to-day basis?

You say he supported me through my family problems - how on earth do you KNOW???

Umm because you said as much in your original post? We only know what you tell us here. If you're telling us you were a united couple who made all their decisions together and supported each other, then that's what we know. There's no point giving out to me because my information's not accurate - you're the one giving out the information.

I really don't know how you have come to these conclusions!

Based on the limited information you've given us. Like I said, try and think from an alternative viewpoint. Think about how you'd feel if you married someone, spent years dealing with their interfering family (at least that's the information you've given us), had a lot of troubles, were working long hours to support your family, and when you made a mistake, either through simply human failure, or tiredness, or whatever, you're told that suddenly you're not fit to be part of the family, and are either sleeping on the couch or told to get out.

I really don't know what to say to that response

Then I think maybe you're not reading it the way it was meant. If you've been telling your husband he's not a fit dad, and forcing him to sleep on the couch, then it's not unreasonable for him to assume that his marriage is breaking down, correct? If he feels he's done everything he can, and it's still not good enough, then he has to cut his losses on what is unsalvageable, and concentrate on what can do and what he has to do. In this case he's trying to get the family out of a financial rut that you've been in for years, by attempting to make more money. By putting it all in his name, and not using the family's assets to underwrite it, then he's not risking the family's future, he's only risking his own (limited liability and all that).

Human actions rarely exist in a vaccum. I'm not saying what he did was 100% ok, but I am saying it's not necessarily suprising, and that while you may think all this is coming out of nowhere, it is actually coming about as a reaction to what has happened in the previous two months.

Slutmonkey57b

bug wrote:

Eh yeah big time...

what on earth was he investing in a painting and decorating business for anyways? Was he directly involved in it? Hardly blue chip with high returns now was it?

His attitude is up his ar*e if you ask me. You have to try this from another angle. Because from what you've said, doesnt seem like he has much money savvy.

Clearly the response of a man who hasn't had his house painted recently. Painting and decorating can be very big money. Slow to start off, but very low costs, and very high returns. It is dependant however on living in an economy where vapid people have lots of money to spend and don't like to get their fingernails broken - like Dublin. Without knowing what country the business was set up in it's difficult to know - and as the OP says, it was a joint decision so it can't be only the husband who isn't money savvy if that's the assumption you're making.

Slutmonkey57b

marksuttonie wrote:

The travelling and 24/7 nature of the business will drive a wedge fruther into the marriage if you are not careful.

I think you need to get professional advice to be honest.

It sounds to me like the husband has already assumed his marriage is over and is now working on a way of supporting his family long term. That may involve taking a risk to get out of the money trap he's in, but if he's set up a limited liability company with his own backing, then he's not risking the family's money, he's risking his backer's money.

Abby D Cody

I think hubby was trying to surprise you with a successful save. He discussed the business with his friends so he could arrive at a solution to your marital (you weren't apparently communicating at the time) and financial difficulties. But he's a man, so his ideas were off-the-wall and now he is completely embarrassed about not including you and feels he has only made matters worse. So he's trying to include you in everything from now on, but he's found you stone-walling him and is probably at the end, or near to it, of his tether.

In a soap, a fictional character would start having an affair on his nights away, but he isn't a fictional character. He is your husband and you know him better than anyone else you know outside of your immediate family. He's a frightened man who doesn't know how he's going to support his family. He's a dreamer who has romantic, fanciful ideals and he really hates to see real life make such an impact on him like this. He thought you would throw your arms around him and say "My hero!" when he told you about this latest enterprise.

But you didn't. And he doesn't really know how to react.

I have no suggestion to make. Everything I've just written could be completely off, you know him better than I do. But is it possible that the pressure of keeping sane is polarising you? It isn't that he was afraid to include you early on, it was that he wanted to draw you in with what he evidentally believed was a vote-winner.

Finally, I am willing to bet a large sum of money that at some stage during his discussions with friends, before he committed himself to the scheme, he was heard to say "This will save our marriage" or something very, very similar.

Don't re-evaluate yourself, your reaction was human and sincere. But please see if you can re-evaluate what you believe were his motivations. There is a huge amount of pressure in your lives at this time and reacting emotionally could lead to a conclusion you will regret for a very long time.

Blub2k4

It sounds like there are two sides to this and it has gotten so far that you are only seeing one.

It's pretty obvious that he cant do anything right now.

Step back and try to get a neutral party involved so you two can open up your lines of communication again, or I dont think you'll have a relationship soon.

po0k

You're pissed off because you feel the inheritance that you fought so hard for was squandered on his brother. And it may well have been, or ye were unlucky.

Still, from what you've said, it appears he's taken initiative, put his (and his backer's) balls on the line to put bread on the table for ye. You would do well to count your blessings, at least he's trying to do the right thing.

Butter on both sides again.

fits

I can empathise with you OP. I've been through a business bust as well with my partner and now he's setting out on a new venture, I'm absolutely terrified it will happen again. It is so stressful. It sounds like you have had a bad time of it and are worried about your family's future. To be honest, I'd be livid if my partner made such a big financial decision without my input.
I've no advice to give you, only empathy.

LegacyUser

He still insists that he is going to do everything his way. But then this morning he left some tax form on the table and asked me to fill in the rest and post it.

He sees NO reason why I should be upset, hurt or annoyed.I have spent the last two days in tears - last night he screamed at me that he was moving out if I carried on being so unreasonable.Do I want a divorce, lets get one.Then he left to go to work. Half an hour later I got a text saying he loves me.
But last night I fell asleep on the sofa and felt him kiss me at some point.He went upstairs to bed, I slept where I was.

I think the gist of it is like it or lump it.But he wants me to like it.
We are making each other so miserable - but truly I am hurt and disappointed beyond words. It is almost as if something has just *gone* and I'm not sure we will get it back.

Abby D Cody wrote:

I think hubby was trying to surprise you with a successful save. He discussed the business with his friends so he could arrive at a solution to your marital (you weren't apparently communicating at the time) and financial difficulties. But he's a man, so his ideas were off-the-wall and now he is completely embarrassed about not including you and feels he has only made matters worse. So he's trying to include you in everything from now on, but he's found you stone-walling him and is probably at the end, or near to it, of his tether.

Actually one of the problems is that I am NOT being included in anything, except in what he deems neccessary.
The fact that we had an argument and were on terse speaking terms, is not an excuse for not discussing the idea and plan with me and then just going ahead and doing it.
This whole thing is going to cause major disruptions to our children too - after a traumatic 3 years they have established themselves in the community - school, friends- and at some point it will mean having to move from where we are now.
I can't believe anyone with a family has the right to make these decisions single handedly.

Slutmonkey57b

livid and upset wrote:

The fact that we had an argument and were on terse speaking terms, is not an excuse for not discussing the idea and plan with me and then just going ahead and doing it.

Again, I think this is where you're not realising that both of you are seeing each situation from very different viewpoints. You seem to be viewing the two-month frostiness as a bump that you should have worked through. He seems to have seen it as a final straw and that from that point forward he is on his own. That also doesn't seem to be what he wants (hence the texts and the kiss), but that's what he sees. The belated attempts to involve you to some degree could be an olive branch - but he may well have decided that he's not prepared to give you equal control over what he's doing because he doesn't trust you to work with him any more.

You said he left a tax form for you to finish filling out - is this a joint tax form that requires your details on it? If so, how is he being unreasonable by leaving it for you to fill out? Or is it a tax form where he's trying to claim your tax credits? I don't quite understand what there is to get worked up about when it comes to writing down your pps number.

Bottom line, you both need far more professional help to get through this than you're going to get from fat, sweaty, nerdy wierdos* on an internet message board.

*I am fully confident that there is at least one person fitting each individiual stereotype reading this board so have no intention of retracting the slander.

MojoMaker

What culture is your husband coming from OP?

Fanny Cradock

whatever about your husband's business dealings, it is clear that your marriage is in crisis. the state of you relationship is the real problem here... all the other problems you guys encounter as a couple stem form this.


get help now.

Beruthiel

livid and upset wrote:

I can't believe anyone with a family has the right to make these decisions single handedly.

They don't, I for one would never put up with my partner making life changing decisions like that without consulting me. I doubt our relationship would survive it.

Strikes me from reading this thread that the biggest problem you have here is the state of your relationship with your husband, all of your problems are steming from this and you are both now in this difficult place because of it.
Your relationship in trouble, comunication has totally broken down and you are both too pissed off with each other to sort it out without getting emotional.
You need a third party, if you wish to save your marriage, find a professional who can help you and try getting your husband to go. At this stage, this seems the best solution. Otherwise the both of you will just keep going around in big fat circles and getting nowhere. Things will continue as they are and the bitterness with become stronger. The longer this goes on the worse it will get.
Get help asap.
best of luck.
a

LegacyUser

MojoMaker wrote:

What country is your husband from OP?

Can't be specific as I have family that use these boards.
Southern Europe.

LegacyUser

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

You said he left a tax form for you to finish filling out - is this a joint tax form that requires your details on it? If so, how is he being unreasonable by leaving it for you to fill out? Or is it a tax form where he's trying to claim your tax credits? I don't quite understand what there is to get worked up about when it comes to writing down your pps number.

It is not just a question of giving my pps no.- I wouldn't be as petty as you seem to think I am.
His written English is not good at all.His spoken English is better, but not brilliant at articulating things over and above general conversation.Not been an issue before - he is my husband and I wouln't care if he was deaf dumb and immobile.

Also it is not just one form - mountains of paperwork that has to be read through and details added to.

I am so so pissed off at the moment that my reasoning is that if he has decided to do this by himself, let him ffuking well do it -BY HIMSELF. INCLUDING all the forms and stuff.

What am I? Just the form filler in? And the person that has to ring Eircom, ESB , and various others ,and explain things, just because he can't?
Not good enough to discuss things with, but now when he wants me to jump I have to say yes darling, how high?
Not going to happen.

You know, with our financial situation what it has been, I would not dream of even spending €50 on a pair of shoes for myself, or a haircut, or anything not totally toally essential without talking with him first.

LegacyUser

Beruthiel wrote:

They don't, I for one would never put up with my partner making life changing decisions like that without consulting me. I doubt our relationship would survive it.

You need a third party, if you wish to save your marriage, find a professional who can help you and try getting your husband to go. At this stage, this seems the best solution. Otherwise the both of you will just keep going around in big fat circles and getting nowhere. Things will continue as they are and the bitterness with become stronger. The longer this goes on the worse it will get.
Get help asap.
best of luck.
a

Chances of that happening are zilch.
I am so devastaed by this - I just feel so totally meaningless.

LegacyUser

Fanny Cradock wrote:

whatever about your husband's business dealings, it is clear that your marriage is in crisis. the state of you relationship is the real problem here... all the other problems you guys encounter as a couple stem form this.


get help now.

Well quite honestly I am more concerned about the state of my marriage than whether or not thing thing works out ok.Of course I hope it does - but not at the expense of everything else.I feel betrayed.
But my priorities are very obviously different.

Slutmonkey57b

livid and upset wrote:

It is not just a question of giving my pps no.- I wouldn't be as petty as you seem to think I am.
Also it is not just one form - mountains of paperwork that has to be read through and details added to.

I am so so pissed off at the moment that my reasoning is that if he has decided to do this by himself, let him ffuking well do it -BY HIMSELF. INCLUDING all the forms and stuff.

What am I? Just the form filler in? And the person that has to ring Eircom, ESB , and various others ,and explain things, just because he can't?
Not good enough to discuss things with, but now when he wants me to jump I have to say yes darling, how high?
Not going to happen.

You know, with our financial situation what it has been, I would not dream of even spending €50 on a pair of shoes for myself, or a haircut, or anything not totally toally essential without talking with him first.

Ok, that makes more sense. From the original comment it seemed like a single form that needed you signing off on it. It may be that he's just being totally insensitive with this and assuming you'll pick up the slack for him - it may also be that he is trying in some way to involve you in what's going on. It's not going to be possible for you to know either way without sitting down with professional help at this stage. You seem to be assuming that he's betrayed your confidence, and he may have assumed two months ago you did likewise, and stubborness is clearly setting in on both sides.

LegacyUser

Thanks to all who gave a viewpoint - though I really don't know how this is ever going to get sorted.

Nevyn

It won't until you are ready to face some hard truths and facts and claim your side of the responsiblity for what has happened.
You will have decide that there needs to be changes and make them happen.
Why not write him a letter stating your concerns and worries and then try get someone to mind the children so you can both talk about working on saving your relationship.