Who is the best F1 drive from 1994 - 2006 exclulding Kimi, Alsonso, Mika, and Schumi

thegoth

Click on this link to register your opinion. I am not saying that these are the best drivers of the last 10 years, so please don't make posts saying that driver A or B should be on the list

http://www.misterpoll.com/3843236293.html

Kersh

If you go by your logic of the past few threads, it should be the guy with the most wins..... It should be DC or Hill , but for some reason DC isnt on it, and he has loads of wins. Other than that it can only be JV or Hill, , cos they have championships. In your world, stats are everything
This just proves my point that just cos MS is on top of all the record lists, doesnt mean he is the best ever.
All the drivers on that list (bar hill, jv) are crap. Competent at best.
Thay really have not achieved anything in f1. The most notable 'loser' of the lot is Alesi, much acclaimed when he hit f1 in 91, but did nothing then. Ralph is merely good, as is fizzy. Heidfeld the same.
Off that list, i voted JV.

thegoth

Stats do not mean much to me at all when judging a driver. I always look at performance to their team mates. I didn't think many people would vote for DC as he has been out performed by nearly all his teammates. He did okay against Klien in his first season with Rebull, but thats it.

I voted for Frenzen. He hardly has be best stats of anyone on the list.

Didn't you read the post

" I am not saying that these are the best drivers of the last 10 years, so please don't make posts saying that driver A or B should be on the list "

It seems you just want to start some sort of fight here.

They are not all losers, they merly are not top of everyones list of greatest drivers in the last 10 years, nor should they be. I just thought it would make a change from the same old "Whos best" Alonso or Schumi, or Schumi or Senna, etc..... argument

Kersh

JV, like I said.
its strange DC isnt on it... and rubens and Irvine are - havent they seriously under performed against their team mate...?? And sure Irvine murdered Rubens in 93, had him in tears a lot of the time.
The choices for the poll are quite random.
But its defo JV... by far the quickest, bravest there.

thegoth

These are very far from Random. Do you rate DC as a top driver ? Irvine and Rubens were beaten by a team mate that is one of the best drivers the world has ever seen.

I know Irvine beat Rubens early in the season, but once Rubens got power steering, he was just as fast, and faster than Irvine on alot of the time. Also bear in mind Rubens was alot less expierenced than Irvine at that stage.

I remember an interview with Rubens just before he got power steering on his car, and he said judge me from now on. I did. He performaces were much improved for the rest of the year.

I can't disagree with JV, but I just picked Frenzen as I think Williams was the worst team he could have gone to, as they never jealed together.

What goes against JV is that he won the championship in a great car, has never backed this up by amazing feats of driving in the machinery he has had since. I now he has never had a race winning car since, but you would still exxpect better performances than he gave. I know he beat Zonta, but he struggled badly against Button and Massa and is now having alot of hastle with Hedifield. You would expect a top driver to be able to edge out these guys. Maybe he was mid grid too long.

I think JV is still living on a rep he earned in 1996/7

steviec

I picked Heidfeld, since he's been a team-mate to, and beaten, both JV(so far this season he's edging him out) and Frentzen. He's also beaten Kimi Raikkonen as a team mate. The only man he hasn't beaten is Mark Webber, who I'd have voted for if he was on the list.

Certainly Kimi wasn't at his best yet alongside Nick at Sauber, and neither Frentzen or JV were in the peak of their career when they teamed with him either. But it can't be that much of a fluke, I've always thought he could have done everything Kimi did, and maybe more, if he'd gotten that McLaren drive instead of Kimi(and he'd every right to get it). He's solid, he's consistent, there's no great weaknesses to his driving, I think he has the skills to do the job in a good car.

Edwardius

I think I'll plump for jv as well. Although I seem to remember a certain Jpm showing heidfeld the way around in f3000 a few years ago before blowing away everyone in champ cars. I think I may have been going montoya's way had he not turned into a fat, bitter little prima donna **** since joining mclaren. Heidfeld is good and has produced some solid drives but until he gets a top car under him I don't think you can really judge (Fizzy anyone? Although I think he's dulled somewhat in recent years). I'd hardly think JV is in the same state of mind as he was in '97 so comparing his current drives against Nick this season might not tell the full story...

thegoth

Yeah I think tha Nick is very fast, and I once thought the same thing about him compared to Kim. At first I could not understand why Nick was not offered the McLaren drive until I thought about it for a while. When Nick and Kimi were teammates, it was Kimis first year in F1. He only had like 20 car races before this. Considering this, Kimi actually did quiet well against Nick , as he was still learning F1, but I would still love to see both in the same car now.

As regards JV. I think he is still living on a reputation he earned in 1996 and 97. He is still massivly brave, but all he did really in F1 is win a world championship in a car that was sometimes a second a lap better than the competition. I know Michael did the same, but he also challenged for the title in an under preforming Benetton and Ferrari. Since JV left Williams I cannot think of a single drive when I thought, wow, that was special. Since leaving Williams, he has beaten Zonta, struggled against Panis, Button, Heidfield and Massa. I think we needed to see him dominate his quality teammates more than he did after the 1997 season. But I sill cannot disagree with him a choice.

I went for Frenzen. Comments about him anyone ?

steviec

Frentzen had a lot of ups and downs. He was great for Jordan in 99, but I don't think he had any other stand out seasons really. He didn't do much with that car that JV won the title in either. Yes you can say he was unsettled, but he can't really blame anyone else for that. He had dodgy spells at Jordan too.

Nick v Kimi: Nick is only 2 years older and only had one more year's experience in F1. It's not a vast gap. They were both young and talented, I think Nick could have brought just as much to McLaren as Kimi did. Maybe BMW will find some speed, they seem to be getting closer to the top three while Honda and Toyota are getting further away, it would be nice to see someone new up the front.

pburns

In terms of 'natural talent' - Frentzen, Fisi & Trulli.

Contentious, perhaps but that was always my gut feeling. Fisi overshadowed EVERY teammate including Button, Wurz & Ralf...up to Alonso.

Remember Fretzen was similarly beaten by Villeneuve but once he got away from Williams he flew. In '99, with no pressure in a smaller team, he was awesome. Like Fisi, he had the talent but not the head.

Trulli - in a car set up to his liking, over ONE lap I don't think there is anyone faster. But over a race distance, in wheel-to-wheel racing he just wilts.

Webber is also a mega qualifier who's not quite as good a racer, which mystifies me because he's fit, tough, fast, a hard worker....

All these guys have more talkent than DH, DC etc, they just maybe don't have the 'mind-management' (hate that phrase) to fully utilise their abilities.

thegoth

PBurns, I agree totally with everything you said.

Steviec, Frenzen had amazing seasons with Sauber before he joined Williams. I know that Nick only had one years more expierence in F1, but do not under estimate the difference a year of F1 expierence can make, but more important Nick had benn racing fast single seaters alot longer than Kimi, thats why I think Kimi is slightly faster than Nick, but I would love to see them both paired with each other again. It would be very exciting. Maybe in a few years when BMW get up to full speed.

I went for Frenzen based on his Sauber days and 1999 with Jordan, but only by a whisker. Thing I would put Fisi next, but not much between him and JV, Nick

trendkill

thegoth wrote:

I know Irvine beat Rubens early in the season, but once Rubens got power steering, he was just as fast, and faster than Irvine on alot of the time. Also bear in mind Rubens was alot less expierenced than Irvine at that stage.

Don't think it was the power steering mate that made him go fasterr... i recall and plus in Montreal a few years ago he restated that when he drove for jordan he couldn't left foot brake where as Irvine could. Telemetry was only coming in commonplace and when they looked at the difference between Rubinho and Eddie, it showed that going down the straights... Rubens left foot was resting on the brake a couple of percent...... hence making Irvine Faster on the straight, it took him a while.. they even built a leg rest for him so he wouldn't rest it on the brake!!!!!