Threes company too

fuzzbox

PP 5/10 6-max

No reads

Shorty as 340
Biggy has 1k
I have 1k

I have AA

Preflop
Hero opens utg to 35, biggy calls, some1 else calls, shorty calls on the button.

Flop (150)
T 6 2 rainbow
Hero bets 100, biggy calls, folded to shorty who goes all-in, hero thinks and calls, biggy shoves .... and I wanna vomit

Action?

bman

What are your cards?

pok3rplaya

Does it really matter all that much?

CoD

This actually happened to me a few days ago, i folded, and it ended up he had JJ.

You have to think why would a villain push here with a set, when you have to act first on the turn. This is what makes it look like JJ etc.

Ummm v tough but without know the villan i probably fold it. At least you'll see his cards and know more about him for the future. Although from the other day pissed me off, i dont know if my fold was right either, so i'm glad you brought this hand up.

Western_sean

Hi Fuzz

I'm wondering why did you leave the short stack able to make a full raise on that flop? Once biggy calls shorty has a good price to go in with lot's of hands...

That said I think biggy wants you out. You've bet 2/3rds and only called the shorty's all in, to me it seems like you might be ready to let it go given some encouragement.

Then again I'd loose my shirt at those stakes.......

ligger

I call and see him turn over JJ.
I then whoop with joy, (no poker face for me)
And then cry like a girl when the J lands on the river.

Gotta luv this game.:)

ianmc38

Standard call for me this one. Expect JJ+ here nearly everytime.

Ste05

I reluctantly call here. By flat calling the Shorty's re-raise you have successfully coaxed the biggie into the pot, now you really have to call. I'd expect to see 1010 or 66 here about 25% of the time, the other 75% of the time I'd say it's JJ+

I certaintly don't think this is a standard call though, look at it from the biggie's point of view, would we call this re-raise with AK after the biggie has already called our continuation bet, without any kind of read my %'s above apply, but against a decent player I'd fold here, we've told the Biggie we have an over pair, then he shoves, does he expect us to fold JJ+ or call?? [The answer I come to with this question, I obviously do the opposite]

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Standard call for me this one. Expect JJ+ here nearly everytime.

You see JJ+ every time when ur pf raise is smooth called by utg+1?

fuzzbox

Western_sean wrote:

Hi Fuzz

I'm wondering why did you leave the short stack able to make a full raise on that flop? Once biggy calls shorty has a good price to go in with lot's of hands...

What difference do you think it makes?

padraig_f

Shorty's never bluffing and biggy knows this. So it looks like biggy has a pair of 10s beaten. The question is whether it's an overpair or a set. The flat-call on the flop looks more like a set than an overpair to me. It looks like he's trying to get shorty involved too by just calling. I'd expect an overpair to raise your $100 bet on the flop, he could be playing it cautiously by just calling but then that's not consistent with his push. It all seems fully consistent with a set, he knows when you call shorty's reraise you have a hand (probable overpair), moreso than when you led out on the flop, so his raise at this point is quite scary. I fold.

padraig_f

ianmc38 wrote:

Standard call for me this one. Expect JJ+ here nearly everytime.

This is the other thing. Would you flat-call the $100 bet with JJ/QQ with the likely prospect of having 2 opponents see a turn card?

cardshark202

I fold here. I can't see biggy having any hand that we can beat. It has set written all over it.

Western_sean

fuzzbox wrote:

What difference do you think it makes?

I think you're trying to put him under more pressure not to play by using the small stacks full raise as leverage.

As you've played the hand it seems like you want him to overbet to be rid of you on the times when he plays - What I don't follow is why you want to face a potentially difficult decision here?

I just don't think you are ahead here as often as the other posters seem to.

fuzzbox

Western_sean wrote:

I think you're trying to put him under more pressure not to play by using the small stacks full raise as leverage.

As you've played the hand it seems like you want him to overbet to be rid of you on the times when he plays - What I don't follow is why you want to face a potentially difficult decision here?

I just don't think you are ahead here as often as the other posters seem to.

Western_sean :
There are two more streets of betting to follow this one ... so I dont see what you mean here.

Western_sean

fuzzbox wrote:

Western_sean :
There are two more streets of betting to follow this one ... so I dont see what you mean here.

It seems to me that biggie likes this flop since he has effectively encouraged the shortstack to go all in. When you smooth call the shortstack, biggie can take a cheap card if that might help or bet it if he doesn't want you to see one.

Theres around 850 in the pot now. So once he makes any meaningful bet he's effectively pot committed anyway. It seems that if he bets pushing in is probably his best option. You've played like this is what you wanted to happen yet from the tone of your post it's not your desired outcome.

I'm still confused.......am I just misreading or over reading how you / biggie are playing this? Or is it that I'm totally out of my depth at 5/10?

Sean

fuzzbox

Results:
Well I folded.

Shorty had JJ, and biggy had QQ ... and I smashed my mouse.

How do neither of them reraise preflop .... ffs.

RoundTower

I think he has a set more often than an overpair.

ianmc38

RoundTower wrote:

I think he has a set more often than an overpair.

Why? Flat calling is alot scarier here IMO. Pushing with a set here is deefinitely -EV. Against a well known opponent then it can be a good ploy to mix up your game but vs an unknown it's a good way to make someone fold an overpair.

Gholimoli

i think this is an over pair more than a set.
you bet the flop,bigy calls,short goes all in...
now you flat call here ,from bigy point of view you cant be that strong simply becuase your not representing it.your mostly likely hands after the flat call are AK,or a PP which he has beat.
now the action gets back to him,he does not want to see an A or K drop so he goes all in trying to protect it.i think the all in here is the give away that he does not have a set.i mean the board is not really scary at all so its a very safe board for a set to try to get vlue from with a smallish reraise.the all in is saying i dont want a caller ...

Lafortezza

Hi Gholi,
If biggy has an overpair that he think beats Hero's AK or JJ or whatever, why doesn't he reraise preflop? On a 6max table at these stakes I think KK or QQ reraise preflop a large % of the time.
That's why a set is a bit more likely.

Villain, is he has a set, could call and wait for a turn card because pretty much every turn card is safe (save an A or K), but then he will be betting into a dry side pot, and Hero could easily realise that his big overpair is no good anymore. Maybe better to try to get Hero all-in now when there's still 2 cards to go and Villains range could be wider.

Gholimoli wrote:

i think this is an over pair more than a set.
you bet the flop,bigy calls,short goes all in...
now you flat call here ,from bigy point of view you cant be that strong simply becuase your not representing it.your mostly likely hands after the flat call are AK,or a PP which he has beat.
now the action gets back to him,he does not want to see an A or K drop so he goes all in trying to protect it.i think the all in here is the give away that he does not have a set.i mean the board is not really scary at all so its a very safe board for a set to try to get vlue from with a smallish reraise.the all in is saying i dont want a caller ...

ChipLdr

This situation is near identical to the one discussed last week with myself and Ste05.I'm gonna have to agree with Gholi here

Why are you calling and not raising??? Answer: to set a trap for Biggy.
If you raised shortys all in then Biggy might fold.

Biggy falls into the trap by sensing you're weak and pushes. BINGO!!! Why would biggy push with a set here?? It doesnt add up as it gives you a great chance to get away from the hand.

TT is definately not a push here.

cardshark202

Re-raising the shorty would be terrible here. Then the only way we get called is if biggy has a set. I really think this play is far more consistent with a set than an overpair. With no real reads this is a simple fold imo.
Lets get results orientated and say it was a terrible fold.:)

RoundTower

ianmc38 wrote:

Why? Flat calling is alot scarier here IMO. Pushing with a set here is deefinitely -EV. Against a well known opponent then it can be a good ploy to mix up your game but vs an unknown it's a good way to make someone fold an overpair.

This is nuts. Villain flat called the first time round, now he pushes because the pot is so big hero won't be able to fold (a T on the turn for example is going to scare hero right off). Saying "pushing with a set here is -EV" shows you do not know what EV means, or you do not know what a set is, or both.

Gholimoli wrote:

think this is an over pair more than a set.
you bet the flop,bigy calls,short goes all in...
now you flat call here ,from bigy point of view you cant be that strong simply becuase your not representing it.your mostly likely hands after the flat call are AK,or a PP which he has beat.
now the action gets back to him,he does not want to see an A or K drop so he goes all in trying to protect it.i think the all in here is the give away that he does not have a set.i mean the board is not really scary at all so its a very safe board for a set to try to get vlue from with a smallish reraise.the all in is saying i dont want a caller ...

This is also nuts. You could easily have a set when you call here. Also there is 1000+ in the pot and the bet is 240 and villain has 650 left if he just calls. What would you consider "a smallish reraise"?

Re-raising the shorty would be terrible here. Then the only way we get called is if biggy has a set. I really think this play is far more consistent with a set than an overpair. With no real reads this is a simple fold imo.
Lets get results orientated and say it was a terrible fold.

This is also nuts. Pushing wouldn't be terrible, it's not much different from calling (except it stops us making a bad fold), and it might look like something like JJ which could do without seeing a scary turn card. And it's definitely not a simple fold, the pot is very big and you have AA.

In conclusion: none of you read the hand properly.

cardshark202

Lol.

I always think bluffing with AA is bad. You could re-raise with AA in this spot but what is biggy's calling range? A set? Maybe a set too.

In conclusion: Don't re-raise with AA and fold to a push from biggy given the dryness of the board.