Sold a crashed car but not told

sas

A friend of mine bought a car from a dealer. 10 months later when getting rountine maintenance work done she discovered that the car had been crashed and had a bent axl and some other damage. She was never told the car had been crashed.

The garage has agreed to take the car back but is insisting on taking 2500 Euro off what she originally paid to allow for depreciation over the 10 months she had it.

This doesn't seem right at all to me but I'm asking for other peoples views/experiences on this.

What should be her next step if this isn't right?

She's concerned about going down the court route due to the length of time it will take. She originally paid 13500 for the car so its beyond the amount for the small claims courts.

Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated.

Diamondmaker

Get a solicitor involved, your case is cut and dry. Threaten with solicitor first.
Also small claims court yiu can use without a soilicitor, ie represent your self costs very little an you WILL win. An independant mechanic can assist and verify what he saw and the guilty mechaninc seems to have admitted knowing it was crashed by agreeing to take it back ( even if he did the duty of care comes in again that he must have ensured it was road worthy prior to sale )
Judge will rule the professional ( garage ) has a duty of care on you when supplying you with a car that should be road worthy.
Its all in your favour as the sale was through a dealer.
similar appened to me privately but once again the same principal applies and providing you can prove they knew but did not tell you then you are sorted. ( I got my money back when he was threatened with the above advice )

name and shame also...in the motors section or on ask About Money!

byte

Had your friend asked if the car was previously crashed? ANd if so, does she have a written statement from the garage saying such?

Otherwise, I'm not totally sure she's entitled to her full money back especially after 10 months driving.

Caveat Emptor?

Anan1

sas - Even if your friend was lied to about whether the car was crashed, they have still had 10 months use of the car. I would imagine that €2,500 is not totally unreasonable for 10 months use of a €13,500 car, although I would like to see it lowered a bit.

dogg_r_69

A fella I know was sold a crashed car (Nissan Primera) When he had asked was it crashed they said it had a "tip" He had seen the car in one garage but bought it through one of his friends who owns another garage As it was bought off a garage twas serviced an all so no one looked at it up on a ramp Once it came in it was passed on to the friend straight away Anyway he knew nothing till he traded it in about 4 months later after seeing something new They fella he traded it in too just sold on the car to another garage never even looked at it but when it was put up on a ramp they found out the chassis was bent and it shouldn't have even been on the road Anyway the garage pulled out of buying it and as the fella was freinds with the owner of the garage they went back to the garage that original sold it. Anyway they denied all responsibility and soliciters were called in There was a load or arguing and in the end about 2 hours before the court case they settled by paying how much it'd cost to repair the car The friend lost a bit of money on it but nothing major Could have been worse

commited

dogg_r_69 wrote:

A fella I know was sold a crashed car (Nissan Primera) When he had asked was it crashed they said it had a "tip" He had seen the car in one garage but bought it through one of his friends who owns another garage As it was bought off a garage twas serviced an all so no one looked at it up on a ramp Once it came in it was passed on to the friend straight away Anyway he knew nothing till he traded it in about 4 months later after seeing something new They fella he traded it in too just sold on the car to another garage never even looked at it but when it was put up on a ramp they found out the chassis was bent and it shouldn't have even been on the road Anyway the garage pulled out of buying it and as the fella was freinds with the owner of the garage they went back to the garage that original sold it. Anyway they denied all responsibility and soliciters were called in There was a load or arguing and in the end about 2 hours before the court case they settled by paying how much it'd cost to repair the car The friend lost a bit of money on it but nothing major Could have been worse

In english?

unkel

sas wrote:

She was never told the car had been crashed

The dealer wasn't obliged to voluntarily disclose it was crashed. She should have asked

She's had 10 months use of the car. She should accept €11k back. It is a reasonable enough amount not to start money-wasting legal procedures

SouperComputer

Anan1 wrote:

sas - Even if your friend was lied to about whether the car was crashed, they have still had 10 months use of the car. I would imagine that €2,500 is not totally unreasonable for 10 months use of a €13,500 car, although I would like to see it lowered a bit.

But isnt that based on at €13,500 car thats been stuffed? IE worth less than €13,500?

Doolittle51

dogg_r_69 wrote:

A fella I know was sold a crashed car (Nissan Primera) When he had asked was it crashed they said it had a "tip" He had seen the car in one garage but bought it through one of his friends who owns another garage As it was bought off a garage twas serviced an all so no one looked at it up on a ramp Once it came in it was passed on to the friend straight away Anyway he knew nothing till he traded it in about 4 months later after seeing something new They fella he traded it in too just sold on the car to another garage never even looked at it but when it was put up on a ramp they found out the chassis was bent and it shouldn't have even been on the road Anyway the garage pulled out of buying it and as the fella was freinds with the owner of the garage they went back to the garage that original sold it. Anyway they denied all responsibility and soliciters were called in There was a load or arguing and in the end about 2 hours before the court case they settled by paying how much it'd cost to repair the car The friend lost a bit of money on it but nothing major Could have been worse

What?

Idleater

unkel wrote:

The dealer wasn't obliged to voluntarily disclose it was crashed. She should have asked

I thought - but definitely open to correction, that a Car Dealer is a person "in the know" and the consumer is not expected to be "in the know".

Therefore if a consumer goes to somewhere to buy goods, they are entitled to be informed about everything that a person "in the know" can say that would affect the sale of the goods to a person not "in the know".

It does not seem to be reasonable to expect everyone buying from a garage to have to ask everything about a car (or whatever), just because the sales people are not "obliged" to inform the person.

Private sales on the other hand are completely different because neither party can be shown to be more "in the know" than the other (unless like stated above, they can clearly be shown not to admit to something that was most definitely known to them that would affect the sale).

L.

jhegarty

From http://www.odca.ie/cfmdocs/c_query/motor.cfm

Consumer purchases a car which had been badly damaged in a crash but was not informed of this by the dealer.

* Generally, if the consumer did not ask if the car was ever in a crash, or, if they did not have the car checked out by a reputable person before making the purchase, then they could be in a weak position legally in seeking redress (i.e. Caveat Emptor-Buyer Beware).
* The seller is under no obligation to offer up information, but if they are asked specific questions, the information they give must be correct.
* Consumers who find themselves in this situation should be strongly advised to consider taking legal advice in the matter.



N.B. If the car was sold in an unroadworthy state, without the consumer being informed, there may be a breach of both the Sale of Goods & Supply Services Act, 1980 and the Traffic Road Act and the consumer could report this to Gardai.

peasant

Is there no such thing as a pre-printed form for car sales that covers all these things?
Like: the car is accident free, fully roadworthy, the mileage is such and such, the following things need repair/have been repaired, etc, etc ...tick here, sign there and Bob's your uncle?

In other countries you can get generic sample contracts like that from your friendly Automobile Club.

MercMad

Is there no such thing as a pre-printed form for car sales that covers all these things?
Like: the car is accident free, fully roadworthy, the mileage is such and such, the following things need repair/have been repaired, etc, etc ...tick here, sign there and Bob's your uncle?

........yes there is and most SIMI garages use the format for their invoices !

TBH I would take the current offer and run !

wingnut

A dealer told me before they were obliged to tell me that a car had been crashed previously. As Jhegarty pointed out through the ODCA this is not the case. I am thinking maybe that this is covered in the SIMI's code of ethics if not in law.

You should contact the SIMI and see how you get on. They offer arbitration between dealer and buyer. They will be able to advise you at the least. My own feeling is that you should get all your money back. I think threre is a reasonable expectation that the garage should inform you of major damage. The bent axle may be grouds to argue the car was not as described.

peasant

Well in that case, if the car was sold (in writing) as accident free and it clearly wasn't, it might be worth consulting a solicitor. Because asking 2500 for ten months of driving an unroadworthy car with a increased risk to life and limb seems just a tad cheeky to me.
What if there had been an accident ...wouldn't the seller have been liable for selling an unroadworthy car? I would think yes

Anan1

SouperComputer wrote:

But isnt that based on at €13,500 car thats been stuffed? IE worth less than €13,500?

That works both ways, ie if it was worth less at the start because it had been crashed then it's worth less now for the same reason. The important figure is the depreciation, IMO.

ta2kev

If the garage is a member of the Society Of The Motor Industry (SIMI), I'd give their complaints line a ring 01-6761690.

dogg_r_69

Doolittle51 wrote:

What?

Apoliges if it made no sense but twas a bit complicated Short story He bought a car that was crached Told it had a "tip" When he went back to them they tried denying everything and eventually they settled out of court 2 hours before the case was meant to be heard

knifey_spoonie

Simi are a not worth a Sh1te. They have no control over any of there members there are there as and advisory group to the motor trade and no influence in anything in relation to deals that are done.

I would say your doing well getting most of your money back most places would tell you to F off, it all depends on the dealer . Id say take it and run.

sas

I can add a little more to this now. They were explicitly asked if the car had been crashed and said no. She has an engineers report stating that the car is not road worthy.

I've also spoken to someone else who knows of the garage in question and they apparently have a reputation of selling UK imports that have been clocked. They are not SIMI members. The car I'm on about is also an import.

I've passed on the info. from your responses to my friend.

I have to admit at being somewhat dismayed that garages are not required to make full disclosure regarding any crashes etc. But what can you do.

Thanks again for all your help.

SAS

commited

dogg_r_69 wrote:

Apoliges if it made no sense but twas a bit complicated Short story He bought a car that was crached Told it had a "tip" When he went back to them they tried denying everything and eventually they settled out of court 2 hours before the case was meant to be heard

Use punctuation - it would have made sense then