how to fold ace trips....

unreg1987

Two aces on the flop, I hold A 8o, I raise, re-raise etc. and eventually end up all-in vs. a guy who has me covered. I put him on slow-played high pocket pair, (TT, JJ,QQ) 3 K, or A with a lower kicker here (i.e. A 2 - A 7). After all he DID raise preflop. Was it naive to believe my 8 kicker would hold up here? Is it even possible to fold here?

(extra players removed for clarity, 10 @ table but heads-up hand)

#Game No : 4515318255
***** Hand History for Game 4515318255 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:24828945 Level:6 Blinds(300/600) - Wednesday, June 14, 16:31:35 ET 2006
Table $300 Freeroll(732738) Table #102 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 7: godoesntplay ( $13642 )
Seat 10: sam1955 ( $13894 )
Trny:24828945 Level:6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to godoesntplay [ 8s Ah ]
godoesntplay calls [600].
sam1955 raises [1200].
godoesntplay calls [600].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, Ac, As ]
godoesntplay bets [600].
sam1955 raises [1200].
godoesntplay raises [1200].
sam1955 is all-In [11494]
godoesntplay is all-In [10642]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
godoesntplay shows [ 8s, Ah ] three of a kind, aces.
sam1955 shows [ Ad, Th ] three of a kind, aces.
sam1955 wins 252 chips from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces with ten kicker.
sam1955 wins 28784 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, aces with ten kicker.

Ste05

unreg1987 wrote:

(extra players removed for clarity, 10 @ table but heads-up hand)

We actually need this information to do a meaningful analysis, but from the betting action it looks like this could and should have been folded. Although when we get the rest of the information we can probably give more advice. What position were you both in and what sort of tournament was this?

But for now don't min-raise and definitely don't open limp with A8o...

unreg1987

#Game No : 4515318255
***** Hand History for Game 4515318255 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:24828945 Level:6 Blinds(300/600) - Wednesday, June 14, 16:31:35 ET 2006
Table $300 Freeroll(732738) Table #102 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: hunbikapoker ( $240 )
Seat 6: Fazan2006 ( $170 )
Seat 7: godoesntplay ( $13642 )
Seat 9: ounce77 ( $570 )
Seat 5: Aoliv01 ( $29296 )
Seat 10: sam1955 ( $13894 )
Seat 4: adek_one ( $21911 )
Seat 3: tomvandertun ( $28715 )
Seat 8: HateBluufers ( $940 )
Seat 1: tferguson11 ( $690 )
Trny:24828945 Level:6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to godoesntplay [ 8s Ah ]
Fazan2006 folds.
godoesntplay calls [600].
HateBluufers folds.
ounce77 folds.
sam1955 raises [1200].
tferguson11 folds.
hunbikapoker folds.
tomvandertun folds.
adek_one folds.
Aoliv01 calls [600].
godoesntplay calls [600].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, Ac, As ]
Aoliv01 checks.
godoesntplay bets [600].
sam1955 raises [1200].
Aoliv01 folds.
godoesntplay raises [1200].
sam1955 is all-In [11494]
godoesntplay is all-In [10642]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
godoesntplay shows [ 8s, Ah ] three of a kind, aces.
sam1955 shows [ Ad, Th ] three of a kind, aces.
sam1955 wins 252 chips from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces with ten kicker.
sam1955 wins 28784 chips from the main pot

Ste05

Seat 6: Fazan2006 ( $170 )
Seat 7: godoesntplay ( $13642 )
Seat 8: HateBluufers ( $940 )
Seat 9: ounce77 ( $570 )
Seat 10: sam1955 ( $13894 )
Seat 1: tferguson11 ( $690 )
Seat 2: hunbikapoker ( $240 )
Seat 3: tomvandertun ( $28715 ) (BUTTON)
Seat 4: adek_one ( $21911 ) (SB)
Seat 5: Aoliv01 ( $29296 ) (BB)

OK, the first mistake is limping in early position. If you really want to play this hand you should be raising. The blinds are 300/600, you have over 13k, (~22BB's) the guys in the blinds are the big stacks at the table, so TBH, I think you should actually fold right here. But if you want to play raise the same amount you normally would and hope that both the blinds fold. Although seeing as how this is a Freeroll, this is unlikely, hence yet more reason to Fold Pre-Flop.

But as it played out, you've limped and apart from the blinds and button the only guy at the table who can damage you has raised, (albeit a crappy min-raise) and therefore you are going to have to play in a raised pot OOP risking your whole tournament with A8o, if you think about it there is basically no flop that you can be happy with putting all your chips in on. Any A flops and you need to have SERIOUS reservations about your kicker. If the flop is 8 high and the guy keeps betting into you you need to worry about an over-pair.

So you could have folded to this raise, don't think there's too much need to go into odds, etc. here, after all you'll be getting about 5.5:1 but even with that I'd be reluctant to call here. (By raising or folding you'd have avoided this problem)

Then the flop comes down and it LOOKS like a good one for you and here's where more problems arise. You only bet 600 into a pot of 3,900, this is terrible TBH, either bet properly 2,000 - 4,000 or check. Then you are min-raised, :eek: alarm bells should be ringing...

Then comes the next mistake, another min-re-raise :eek: , which is greeted by a re-re-raise All-In, at this point the alarm bells should be ringing even louder. The chances he has an A with a worse kicker are minute . So you could and should have folded here. Unless you've seen this guy bluffing a huge amount of times you should never really call here. (I realise this is a freeroll, but still fold.)

Apologies if this was a little harsh, but I thought it might help you to get some constructive criticism. But basically the biggest mistake was the limp pre-flop, don't do that and the rest of the problems wouldn't have arisen.

careca

I put him on slow-played high pocket pair, (TT, JJ,QQ) 3 K, or A with a lower kicker here (i.e. A 2 - A 7). After all he DID raise preflop.

I think thats your problem right there. You put him on every single hand that you could beat.

Would he raise preflop with AK, AQ, AJ, AT or even A9 headsup ?

eggie

Apologies if this was a little harsh, but I thought it might help you to get some constructive criticism. But basically the biggest mistake was the limp pre-flop, don't do that and the rest of the problems wouldn't have arisen.[/QUOTE]



AGREED.

unreg1987

Yea, well thx for the advice, it is making sense to me. I based my all-in solely on the fact that I thought that all 4 aces being in play would b a bit ridiculous. But obviously that's not the case. Lesson learned.