Summer Jobs will soon be extinct for students

swingking

*Before anyone says it, this is no meant as a racist post*

I fear for the work experience that students will have in the future. It is very difficult to obtain an unskilled job with all the foreign nationals arriving into this country. Because of this it is very difficult to get a job and without this experience it could mean that students would have to get a professional degree.

What do people think

newestUser

swingking wrote:

*Before anyone says it, this is no meant as a racist post*

I fear for the work experience that students will have in the future. It is very difficult to obtain an unskilled job with all the foreign nationals arriving into this country. Because of this it is very difficult to get a job and without this experience it could mean that students would have to get a professional degree.

What do people think

I'm a student (though slightly older than most, I'm doing a PhD now).

I've never had a problem finding part-time work when I needed to. The most recent occasion I had to find a part-time job was several weeks ago, and I didn't exactly have to bust my balls doing it.

*shrugs*

layke

Walking about town I see plenty places screaming for staff. Especially restaurants and pubs, walk around and look in the windows.

TBH if you want a job, apply for it before everyone finishes for the year, you beat the competition

lostexpectation

swingking wrote:

students would have to get a professional degree.

wow thats a a mindblowing statement there?

hey according to laodza the worlds is your lobster

http://www.loadzajobs.ie/news_details.asp?id=1266

PowerHouseDan

Same Really with myself...But also depends on the job aswell...I am moving to Swansea now in Aug where i will be looking for part time work where i think it will be alot harder, apart from bar work jobs.

newestUser wrote:

I've never had a problem finding part-time work when I needed to. The most recent occasion I had to find a part-time job was several weeks ago, and I didn't exactly have to bust my balls doing it.

*shrugs*

egan007

swingking wrote:

It is very difficult to obtain an unskilled job with all the foreign nationals arriving into this country.

A recent ESRI report said that there was 0 impact caused by emigrants when it came to irish people getting a job in Ireland. I suggest you read this report.
Their statement is backed by a study - yours is hearsay.

swingking wrote:

Because of this it is very difficult to get a job and without this experience

Again this is hearsay - there is nothing to say that it's easire to get a job after having a summer job. Companies directly target colledge students for skilled labour this will never change. If students are concerned about getting relevant experience it should be to their colledge they are talking to. My college organised work experience for me - as they do for all students.

leeroybrown

There was a lengthy discussion of this recently in this thread.

Sabre0001

There are plenty of summer jobs to be had!!! It is a good idea to get a head start as was said earlier and some places even start filling vacancies in February-March.

I saw shops up to a couple of weeks ago with plenty of help wanted posters about.

Jonnie_Onion

A summer job counts for zero when it comes to a graduate position. If you can't get a summer job, its certainly not because of foreigners.

irishguy

I have always had a job during college and i have never had a problem getting one. Didnt really look for one this summer and was offered one in a resturant and i should have one in the tax office tomorrow. Loads of places looking for staff here in Limerick

Tom Dunne

swingking wrote:

I fear for the work experience that students will have in the future. It is very difficult to obtain an unskilled job with all the foreign nationals arriving into this country.

I think your logic is way off.

Work experience could hardly be described as unskilled - colleges and universities do not place students in jobs at McDonalds or the local pub, they are placed in positions relevant to their course.

Immigrants are hardly filling these type of positions.

swingking wrote:

Because of this it is very difficult to get a job and without this experience it could mean that students would have to get a professional degree.

Not sure I follow what you are saying here.

cyrus the virus

If your Irish and are well suited to the job then you are put at the top of the list above a non-irish who is well suited also.

I think its the law. Remember you ask the employer why did you not get the job. Is the reason is not a very good reason, you can take them to court on grounds of discrimination.

(I unsure about this Can someone varify for me it ,ty)

FX Meister

Well I've been finding it really hard to get a job since they all came here and took our jobs. Same goes for chicks, they are taking all our women too. I'm a student for gods sake, I need these jobs. I'm sick of the tax I pay supporting these people taking out jobs when they are on the dole.

FX Meister

cyrus the virus wrote:

If your Irish and are well suited to the job then you are put at the top of the list above a non-irish who is well suited also.

I think its the law. Remember you ask the employer why did you not get the job. Is the reason is not a very good reason, you can take them to court on grounds of discrimination.

(I unsure about this Can someone varify for me it ,ty)

That's complete crap. An employer can get an eastern euro worker to do the same work as you for cheaper and you think you can sue him. Get a life, FACT

Dirk Gently

FX Meister wrote:

I'm a student for gods sake, I need these jobs. I'm sick of the tax I pay supporting these people taking out jobs when they are on the dole.

When I was at college and working part time I got all my tax back every year. That was only 2 years ago. Is this not still the case. Your tax also pays the people who decide how tax is spent so go give out about them if you have a problem with how it’s spent. If tax is spent unwisely in your opinion complaining about those receiving it is not exactly a good way to sort the problem out. Complain about the people handing out your tax money rather than those receiving it. By the way, if they’re working they're the ones paying tax to support your education. They are investing in your future.

how are you paying tax if you haven't got a job anyway? How much of your tax you say you pay goes into supporting working non-nationals. Do you actually pay tax? What are your statistics of non-national who are on the dole and working and how does this compare to Irish workers who are on the dole. Do Irish people declare all their earnings and non-nationals cheat the system at every oppurtunity. I remember a lot of Irish people who use to work in england and claim the dole here in Ireland.

Your comment about them taking all our women is not worthy of a reply.

leeroybrown

cyrus the virus wrote:

If your Irish and are well suited to the job then you are put at the top of the list above a non-irish who is well suited also.

I think its the law. Remember you ask the employer why did you not get the job. Is the reason is not a very good reason, you can take them to court on grounds of discrimination.

That's not correct. Any other EU citizen is equally entitled to apply for and get a job in Ireland. It's only in the case of a work permit application that an employer must show that they cannot fill the job with an EU worker. Once a non-EU citizen has a valid work permit in Ireland they gain equal rights to apply for and get a job in Ireland.

(For the purposes of work permits citizens of Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland are classed the same as EU workers)

the_syco

OP, totally agree. The culchie's will make it impossible for anyone to get a job [/sarc]

EdgarAllenPoo

I had a similar experience to some here. I had a job and although it was part-time I was getting a ton of hours and then with no explanation I was cut back to five hours a week only to find out that a Polish person had been hired(for half the money I was on, I found that out later) and given all the hours they'd taken off me. I asked my boss who had no valid explaination for this so I left. Unfortunately it's not really a good time to be looking for a job so I'm stroodled.

newestUser

GDM wrote:

Unfortunately it's not really a good time to be looking for a job so I'm stroodled.

Not a good time to be looking for work? No offence, but are you mad??? If you're talking about student jobs (bar work, retail, warehouse/factory, call centre) you should have your pick of jobs.

EdgarAllenPoo

You'd think that but no I've gone for call centre jobs and they want you to have sales expereience, retail is the same, warehouse stuff you either need expereince and or a safe pass and bar work is difficult for me becuase although I have experience bar hours would leave me stranded for getting back to Dunshaughlin.

newestUser

GDM wrote:

You'd think that but no I've gone for call centre jobs and they want you to have sales expereience, retail is the same, warehouse stuff you either need expereince and or a safe pass and bar work is difficult for me becuase although I have experience bar hours would leave me stranded for getting back to Dunshaughlin.

Having to find work when you're based in Dunshaughlin does narrow your options a bit I suppose. I still find it hard to believe that you couldn't find *anything* whatsoever though. Not all call centre positions involve sales. And why wouldn't your bar-work experience not count for something if you're going for a retail job? Both involve serving Joe Public, they're not a million miles from each other.

There's no polite way to say this, but I suspect you're either not trying hard enough, or you don't know how to sell yourself properly to an employer. Go on the web, and look up sites which give tips on how to create CVs etc for part-time jobs, how to present yourself at interviews, etc., there's some great advice out there which I've found very useful.

Red Alert

retail in many cases don't care a whole lot about sales experience as long as you have had a tiny bit or are generally well presented and can talk about yourself. i had before i went to my present employer who i've left and returned to a few times (usually start in the summer and finish up in the autumn).

beware of o connor's/jack-and-jones - they hate college students, more fool them!

willowmegs

I've been searching for a summer job for the last few months. Im doing the LC now so thats a disadvantage time-wise I've tried most places from hotels to department stores to recruitment agencies and all I got was one interview in a newsagent, even they said no in the end. I've given up now..

Cake Fiend

FX Meister wrote:

Same goes for chicks, they are taking all our women too.

What would you want Irish women for with all the nice Polish and Latvian imports we're getting?

Black_Couch

The key to getting any job is all about selling yourself. Summer jobs are no exceptions.

-You do this through your cv and cover letter. If you spend 2 hours doing up a general cv without any spelling mistakes, worded well and shows off your strengths.

-How you present yourself when u approach the manager be it interview or otherwise. If you can get hold of a manager and tell him/her that you want a job, hand a cv into their hand. Tell him/her a bit about yourself and it might just work. Handing it to whoever is behind the desk means it will just be up against dozens of other cvs which theres bound to be someone older, more qualified etc.

-Through any contacts you have, mention it to everybody you know that you're looking for a job and you'll be surprised how many people will get back to you.

-Quantity of cv's don't underestimate sheer quantity but again don't just throw them behind the counter. A quick word with the manager and a follow up phone call the next day and you're already in his or her head.

-Use local directory and ring up everything in it. Haven't tried this one but it gives you a good idea of companies you forgot about (stupid as it sounds, I'd say this might just work plus u wouldn't have to travel)

I wouldn't REALLY bother with applying through websites if you have NO experience at all. Experience is mainly used to show u actually didn't just walk out and u did something with urself, not that what u did is that important. Ok thats both my cents. Being in college makes things so easy I have to say, I got plenty of interviews eventually just applying on the net.

iggyman

ye the goverment of this country are stupid ..shouldnt of let any foreigners in if ya ask me.. we were doing alright till they started coming here..now you really have to try to even get an interview, its stupid..

Andore

Black_Couch wrote:

-Quantity of cv's don't underestimate sheer quantity but again don't just throw them behind the counter. A quick word with the manager and a follow up phone call the next day and you're already in his or her head.

Thanks for the good advice. I've been looking for two weeks now (had 2 interviews, didn't get 1 and still waiting on the other) and when I go into a place I tend to just ask at the desk if they have any vacancies. Should I go in, ask at the desk for the manager and then tell him I really want a job? The thing is I've talked to the manager once or twice and they say just leave your cv in at the desk and it doesn't seem to get me any more of a chance.

TempestSabre

Are they actually hiring though?

Black_Couch

yeah i know the kind of situtaton your in. The going up to the manager approach would mostly suit retail. The managers are always floating about the store. You just have to say to yourself you've nothing to lose when talking to them.

Try to find a manager not by asking for them but if you see them about the store. Go up to them and say sorry are you the manager here? even if you know they are.

they say yes

you shake hand cheesy as it sounds

they'll prob think ur a customer - so they'll listen to everything ur saying.

hi my name is....., i'm just finished school/college for the summer, i'm hard working, flexible with my time.

say that you know the shop well, your interested in what they sell etc. (depends on what kind of shop it is)

I've got my cv with me here, then proceed to hand it to him.

Saying "any chance of an interview?" I'm available all week for an interview. etc..

Oh yeah and if you knew somebody that worked there or that does work there that you think might help benefit you mention them.

Something along these lines will work. The simple fact that you approached the manager and made the effort should give a step ahead of the rest. I'm not saying its going to work all the time but it worked for me everytime so far! Good luck.

Andore

TempestSabre wrote:

Are they actually hiring though?

Well if they say they're not hiring but ask me to leave in a CV anyway I will just because I print out a good few CVs and I might as well leave them in rather than returning home with 10 spare. It's definitely easier when you can say "I saw your sign in the window" though.

Black_Couch wrote:

Something along these lines will work. The simple fact that you approached the manager and made the effort should give a step ahead of the rest. I'm not saying its going to work all the time but it worked for me everytime so far! Good luck.

What kind of places should I try? I'm heading into town Monday morning and was going to try the usual big brand suspects but should I look for shops that are smaller and more out of the way?

TempestSabre

Pitching to places who aren't hiring is a waste of time. Use your time well and target you pitch to places that are hiring.

Jonny Arson

egan007 wrote:

A recent ESRI report said that there was 0 impact caused by emigrants when it came to irish people getting a job in Ireland. I suggest you read this report.
Their statement is backed by a study - yours is hearsay.

Well I know (and many other young people know) that study is complete BS. Nearly every 16-21 year old has been saying the same thing in the last year and a half. Is this study saying that it's pure coincidence that students are finding it tougher to find part time work in the last 18 months when there apparently is more low-skilled jobs out there than ever? Business are reluctant to hire students for part time work because they know they can hire foreigners for a cheaper to rate who will work extortionate hours, I know people who work in retail and construction who will back this claim up. You can argue about displacement with the full time Irish labour force but there's no question that students are been displaced from part time work, thats a fact.

You also know things are going crazy when someone you know is told that they're too inexperienced for voluntary work. If tuition fees ever returne, students will be buggered.

boarderfox

Standards are getting fierce feckin high too.. Saw an ad recently for a job as an assistant in a flower shop- Minimum requirement: 5 honours in the Leaving Cert! C'mon!!! Could be just a way of keeping it from migrant workers either, what do ya reckon?

newestUser

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Well I know (and many other young people know) that study is complete BS. Nearly every 16-21 year old has been saying the same thing in the last year and a half. Is this study saying that it's pure coincidence that students are finding it tougher to find part time work in the last 18 months when there apparently is more low-skilled jobs out there than ever? Business are reluctant to hire students for part time work because they know they can hire foreigners for a cheaper to rate who will work extortionate hours, I know people who work in retail and construction who will back this claim up. You can argue about displacement with the full time Irish labour force but there's no question that students are been displaced from part time work, thats a fact.

Well, what you're describing is anecdotal evidence as opposed to fact, but I won't nitpick

Most 16-21 year olds don't have a lot of experience in job hunting/cvs/interviews etc. I'd suggest that as being more likely to be what's preventing students from getting part-time work as opposed to jobs being snapped up by immigrants. I'm a long-time lurker on these boards, and tbh Zane you always struck me as a glass-half-empty kinda guy. The jobs market for students is very healthy, chin up big man it's not as bad out there as you make it out to be.

Black_Couch

Andore wrote:

What kind of places should I try? I'm heading into town Monday morning and was going to try the usual big brand suspects but should I look for shops that are smaller and more out of the way?

Try everything really print off as many cvs as you can. Put them in envelopes and just a short cover letter. I guarantee you, you'll get an interview if you go around enough places. Just bring all your cvs in a bag.

Black_Couch

TempestSabre wrote:

Pitching to places who aren't hiring is a waste of time. Use your time well and target you pitch to places that are hiring.

Couldn't disagree more.

anluainn_ru

The jobs are definitely out there, its just not as cushy as its been for the last 5 years. Its called global labour market (globalisation), and its coming to that crusty minimum wage McDs job near you.

But the good news is that while you haven't got a job, your cheeseburger will be 5c cheaper because of the competitive labour market..... isn't that great.

Civilian_Target

Pfft - its much easier to get a summer job now than it was 3 years ago, particularly in Dublin. Everyones hiring, and in any customer-interaction field (shop assistants, etc) they're really looking to see if they can get natives instead of foreigners. The work is there, it's not fantastic but it pays.

Tha Gopher

egan007 wrote:

A recent ESRI report said that there was 0 impact caused by emigrants when it came to irish people getting a job in Ireland. I suggest you read this report.
Their statement is backed by a study - yours is hearsay.

Wow. All hail Pope ESRI the infallible.

The poster is asking where he can find ANY job. Now, I dont know about you, but I cant recall the last time I was served by an Irish young person in Abrakebabra, Burger King, KFC or Supermacs. You tend to find that if the manager is from one country, at least 70% of the staff appear to be from his country. McDonalds seems to be the only chain takeaway still taking on Irish people. I remember in the late 90s, my cousin used to take the whole work thing in his stride. Too many late mornings? Who cares. He could get sacked and jump into a new minimum wage job 3 days later, they were crying out for people. Now it may have been this behaviour that got employers thinking feck this, bring in migrants who will at least stay a few months, but its discrimination nevertheless. ESRI reports mean feck all to you when you apply for menial work in Dunnes or Tesco and get none, and 2 weeks later you walk in and see Chinese lads you had never seen before there stacking the shelves. Gad to say Im out of college and therefore out f the part time market, because it took me 3 months to get part time work last year.

*does a father ted piss poor subliminal messaging exercise, flashing a picture of myself and the words "not a racist" across the screen every 2.5 seconds*

Sico wrote:

What would you want Irish women for with all the nice Polish and Latvian imports we're getting?

Nice, although proportionately speaking theyre on pretty equal terms as the Irish, in Dublin at least.

The Brazillians, now they batter the lot of us

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/pgStory?contentId=5676192

TempestSabre

Black_Couch wrote:

Couldn't disagree more.

Whats the point of pitching to places that aren't hiring? Practising your pitch?

Sangre

Personally I'm having a nightmare of a time finding a part time summer job. I need it to be part time because I have to study for professional exams later during the summer. I've put in about 20 CVs to places claiming to be looking for part time work and I've had nothing. I also have loads of different work experience with about 5 jobs of at least 3 months full time work. I'm finished college but I'm doing a masters next year....I want a job

Although I'd put this more down to having to start looking later due to finals and the fact I'm only seeking part time. Although if anyone thinks the vast immigrants numbes haven't made a difference to summer work they're delusional.

chump

ditto.

I'd love to know how many of the people on here saying how easy it is to get the summer job, have started looking this summer for a job, JUST until September?

Of course places are looking for people to work part-time indefinetely or full-time indefinetely, but SUMMER jobs? Nahhh

TempestSabre

My own experience of about 10yrs ago, was that it was very difficult. Which is why most of us went to the US or Germany or the UK.

Black_Couch

TempestSabre wrote:

Whats the point of pitching to places that aren't hiring? Practising your pitch?

well in my own experience and the experience of most my friends. Part-time and summer jobs were gotten by pitching even when there was no official recruiting process going on. Plenty of managers haven't got the time to dedicate to a formal lenthy recruiting process.

Bear in mind, I'm talking student-type jobs here.

TempestSabre

Black_Couch wrote:

well in my own experience and the experience of most my friends. Part-time and summer jobs were gotten by pitching even when there was no official recruiting process going on. Plenty of managers haven't got the time to dedicate to a formal lenthy recruiting process.

Bear in mind, I'm talking student-type jobs here.

I'd said places that aren't hiring. Not places that aren't advertising or have a formal process. No point sending 500 CV's if 50% of places aren't hiring, they'll simply bin the CV. We still get CV's for a company that we closed about 10yrs ago.

newestUser

chump wrote:

ditto.

I'd love to know how many of the people on here saying how easy it is to get the summer job, have started looking this summer for a job, JUST until September?

Of course places are looking for people to work part-time indefinetely or full-time indefinetely, but SUMMER jobs? Nahhh

Well have you considered not telling prospective employers you're skiting off at the end of the summer?

newestUser

Sangre wrote:

Personally I'm having a nightmare of a time finding a part time summer job. I need it to be part time because I have to study for professional exams later during the summer. I've put in about 20 CVs to places claiming to be looking for part time work and I've had nothing. I also have loads of different work experience with about 5 jobs of at least 3 months full time work. I'm finished college but I'm doing a masters next year....I want a job

Although I'd put this more down to having to start looking later due to finals and the fact I'm only seeking part time. Although if anyone thinks the vast immigrants numbes haven't made a difference to summer work they're delusional.

First off, sorry to hear that you want a job but can't get one. I know that sucks!

However, your experience just doesn't square with mine. The last time I went looking for part-time work was quite recently, and I didn't have much hassle. Nor did I the time before that (about a year ago).

20 failed job applications isn't an enormous amount, so I'd hardly classify what you're going through as a nightmare yet.

And as I said in a previous post, don't tell a prospective employer that you're only going to be there for the summer.

Getting part-time work can be as much down to luck as anything else, but are you sure that your CV is appropriate, that you're approaching the right people in places to get work, you're investigating all possible avenues, you're not being too picky?

chump

newestUser wrote:

Well have you considered not telling prospective employers you're skiting off at the end of the summer?

Well how do you suggest I coat over the obvious fact that I won't be spending the next year+ working a unskilled job when it's obvious from my CV that I'll have many permanent career type jobs on offer (which I do and will be starting in Sept)...
Of course I could eliminate any notion of these things from my CV but will then be asked what I spent the last 4/5 years doing, as well as the whole thing being blatantly dishonest and in this relatively small country one is bound to be found out eventually - sooner no doubt than later.

I don't doubt there are part-time jobs, open ended that people can get if they search around...

newestUser

chump wrote:

Well how do you suggest I coat over the obvious fact that I won't be spending the next year+ working a unskilled job when it's obvious from my CV that I'll have many permanent career type jobs on offer (which I do and will be starting in Sept)...
Of course I could eliminate any notion of these things from my CV but will then be asked what I spent the last 4/5 years doing, as well as the whole thing being blatantly dishonest and in this relatively small country one is bound to be found out eventually - sooner no doubt than later.

I don't doubt there are part-time jobs, open ended that people can get if they search around...

You could say that you're doing a further course eg Masters/PhD, or starting out something different. Or you could say on your CV that you haven't finished your course yet, and you're going into your final year.

Tbh, I don't think that it's important. Your CV for part-time work shouldn't be focussing on your educational achievements, it should be highlighting your previous experiences which are relevant to the job you're going for. If your cover letter/CV gives employers the impression you're looking for a "proper" job, maybe you should review your CV and see if its appropriate to the job you're applying for?

As for feeling bad about lying on your CV....well, tbh I've "lied" on my cv the last couple of times when looking for part-time work. They're not big lies, I never said I had work experience that I didn't have, I just changed the dates that I said I worked in places to make me appear younger (I'm 28, and I've got this idea that some employers would be turned off by that). The last CV I prepared, I left out that I had a Masters degree (same reason, I didn't want to come across as being too old, and I felt that having details of three degrees on the CV was distracting, I wanted people to look at my past work experience, not think "God, what an egghead"). I don't lose sleep over this. Really these are just white lies, and omitting stuff from your CV isn't going to result in you being branded by the community as a scoundrel. Society doesn't really care about every little detail of your job application to McDonalds. It's not like you're looking for a job as a brain surgeon!

<patronism>Total honesty and candour are not rewarded in life. Welcome to the real world. </patronism>

Alan Smith

I work in a supermarket where all the fulltimers are foregin nationals bar 3 and all the part timers are Irish. Im only 16 also the foreign Nationals working their are the grumpiest bunch (not been racist just a fact