When the sh1t goes down, you better be ready

fuzzbox

The scene:
10/20 PLO full ring, but we are now 4 handed

The protagonists:
The fuzz: he really sucks, but sometimes he has the nuts
The other guy: he is pretty good, v.aggro and generally makes lots of money at this game.

The game is pretty ramped up now especially between me and villain. He and I are the most active preflop, especially in position. We are also tussling on another table where I also have position on him, but he still manages to make things difficult for me.

The question:
I'm posting this from the point of view of the villain, because I think he had the most interesting decisions, and I'm wondering how you guys would play this hand.

The action:
You play the role of the other guy on the BB with Qd Jc 9d 7h
The fuzz opens utg making it 70 to go, its folded to you and you decide to take a flop.

The stacks:
you have 5.5k, the fuzz has 3k

The flop:
Pot 147
Ks Td 5d
you decide to check, fuzz bets 100, you think for a second and pot raise it (448), the fuzz now repots it (1492) leaving about 1500 behind. Whats your plan?

5starpool

It looks like the Fuzz has a big set of Kings here. The question is whether he thinks his Q flush draw are outs too, which assuming the Fuzz has a set of Kings then there is a 2/3 chance that he has the K diamonds, and may well have an accompanying one too.

If I thought the Fuzz would bet this to protect a bare set of K on a very draw heavy board I would call, but personally having never played with the Fuzz I would have to imagine that he likely has either the diamonds or straight draw as backup to a set, or maybe even a similiar wrap with better flush draw but no set such as KdQxJdTx which has our protohero in a world of pain in this hand.

Overall I fold - just, but only if I think long enough about it. Online I wouldn't have enough time to reach a fold decision probably but given time I would.

Norwich Fan Rob

your behind now and drawing to a flush which may not be good, u are also drawing to a non nut str8, unless an off suit ace or 9 comes, he shoulda called the flop, and re accessed after the turn, fold now.
A lot of hands have u in a world on pain, AQJx, for one, KKK with Kdxd for another.

careca

Agree with 5Star that if I had enough time to consider this I would fold. Can't see Fuzz repotting it without a set and flush draw. (KK,TT) with Adxd would be my call and I would fold.

After all that if the stakes were more to my liking and the pot not so huge I would prob gamble here and repot it. At the lower stakes you would get players repotting it with pure crap but I'm presuming all the guys at this level can play.

careca

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

u are also drawing to a non nut str8, unless an off suit ace or 9 comes, .

I would consider this to be drawing to the nut str8

Norwich Fan Rob

careca wrote:

I would consider this to be drawing to the nut str8

not if he has AQJ with 2 diamonds, then u have 6 outs for a split, assuming no diamond, and if a QJ comes u have a non nut str8.

Lafortezza

I_REPOT_U

cardshark202

There aren't too many hands that have you in horrible shape. I say tank it.

Marq

Yapsi.

Benglian

That's "YAPP - SAAII !!!!" to give it it's correct spelling...;)

fuzzbox

Well villain did shove, and I did call.

I tabled KKJJ suited in hearts (no diamonds).
The turn was a 9, but thankfully (for me) the river paired the 5 and MHIG.

I was thinking after, and thought to myself ... wouldn't villain have been clever to simply call my repot on the flop, and then when the 9 hit, he could shove his chips in, and with the pot standing at about 3k, and his bet being around 1.5k, I would be getting 3:1 to fill up, and being that I am 4:1 to fill up, I would be getting bad odds ... or I might fold, since I know that.

Also, if the 5 hit the turn, then villain could check/fold, thus saving the last 1500.

Since villain is destined to go broke Vs a better draw, if he plays it this way, then it seems reasonable to try to make the best play Vs his opponents most likely hand (big set).

Finally - I think I made a big error by not betting the full pot on the flop. If I had done that, (150), then villains c/r would be 600 and when I repotted I would make it 1800 to go. Thus, I would have only 1100 left, and if villain called, the pot would be 3750, and if villain took the line I recommended above - he would bet 1100 into a 3750 pot, and I would be getting 4850:1100, and easily the appropriate odds to fill up, and thus I could correctly call on the turn.

Food for thought.

Lafortezza

fuzzbox wrote:

10/20 PLO full ring, but we are now 4 handed

The other guy: he is pretty good, v.aggro and generally makes lots of money at this game.

The game is pretty ramped up now especially between me and villain. He and I are the most active preflop, especially in position. We are also tussling on another table where I also have position on him, but he still manages to make things difficult for me.

It's a shorthanded game, Villain is aggro at the best of times and probably aggro with marginal hands too, and Villain and Hero have been battling back and forth so have a bit of history.
When it's this kind of game alot of marginal hands are going to be pushed pretty hard, there's likely to be alot of semi-bluffing and the occasional risky big bluff. Both Villain and Hero have huge hands, top set 4-handed, and wrap+flush draw 4 handed. I can't see anything but hot all-in action in this situation.
I can't really see any mistakes by either person, Villain's image means he should be getting all in with a big hand like this, and Hero has nuts!

Hero could have bet full pot on flop and even though you should rarely slow-play in PLO I don't see much wrong with tempting Villain to continue in the hand with a smaller bet.

5starpool

I missed the 4 handed bit I am afraid. This being the case I call and pot any non pair the board turn.

fuzzbox

lafortezza -
I concur that there will be lots of action on this hand, and that a big pot is destined to happen.
However, while neither player made a mistake (as each has about 50% chance to win the hand), perhaps there is a superior way to play that can sometimes tip the balance in ones favour (by saving the 1500, or by getting the last 1500 in favourably ... or even forcing a fold).

Since he has about 20 outs, he is never folding a blank turn, and he will never get bad odds to see a river when a blank hits the turn, and he knows that hero is never folding after 3-betting ... perhaps its worth thinking about.

I dont have any problem with his push, but I'm trying to think if there is a superior line.

RoundTower

fuzz - would you ever play this way with TT and now fold to a raise? Or do you always just call the c/r, or feel committed once half your tank is in the middle? I was at the table for a hand like this today: 358r board and the two villains are the two rocks at the table, the action goes lead for 30, pot to 120, raise to 330, push for 770, fold 55 face up, show 4679. Usually villain #1 would never even get that far with 55 I believe.