Help! Reducing accountancy costs.

biz

Hi, I've taken over a restaurant business a couple of months before xmas and really taken aback by the costs of using an accountant.
It's partially my fault because all I do is write up takings, expenses and wages and the accountant do the rest.

So I'm looking for any advice in reducing the costs by doing some of the simpler stuff myself. I'd like to try software packages but is there one that suit restaurants and how do accountants if need be correct my mistakes?

It's just the world cup coupled by these hot weeks it's getting hard to meet bills so I'm thinking maybe changing accountant and or take more part of doing my accounts.

Thanks, any help would be really appreciated.

Sponge Bob

Dude, you really need to do your own accounts and keep an eye on key ratios like

punters average spend
ratio between expenditure on ingredients/price on plate
staff costs

etc and all this kinda stuff.

try the quickbooks package and a till (or EPOS as they are called ) connected to it maybe .

kluivert

I can offer bookkeeping services for you if you are based in the north east of the country.

Vat Returns.
Paye Returns.
Bank Reconciliations.

From working in an accounting firm myself, I notice alot of clients dont agree fees with the accountant, this is strange as you wouldnt get a house built without first agreeing a price, get the car serviced without a quote.

Are the fees increasing or have they always been high for the service you require.

Vat returns should be no more than 120e, that includes the return and supporting schedules

Paye returns should be a little less.

Accounts for a restrauant should be no more than 1500e each year and that should include tax returns for the business.

I reckon you should get more involved in the bookkeeping ends and before you send of the return just ask your accountant to review the return. You dont need software really.

Get yourself to part time classes for bookkeeping.

If you need further advise or excel templates for bookkeeping PM me and I see what I can do for you ok.

However Ill always say this, the successful business people have three key skills:

Know how to manage their finances
Be able to get something for nothing
Understanding there customers.

About the World Cup, could you offer specials to attract customers. Bring the feel good factor of the world cup to your restrauant, if bars and can this so can you. Have a look at your marketing end of things. The town I am from in Monaghan would have alot of eastern europeans especially Poland, so there are pubs having Poland specials for Poland nationals etc.

SouperComputer

try the quickbooks package and a till (or EPOS as they are called ) connected to it maybe .

Second this. Very powerful software that is a snip to use with fantastic support. A great business tool and highly reccomended.

dam099

kluivert wrote:

You dont need software really.

Get yourself to part time classes for bookkeeping.

If you need further advise or excel templates for bookkeeping PM me and I see what I can do for you ok.

I would disagree with this. For a novice Quickbooks or something similar will be much easier to use than Excel. If you do not already have Excel then the basic versions of Quickbooks will not run you much more than a copy of Excel. The part time classes are a good idea though.

biz

Thanks for the replies so far!

This is a family business that's been passed on to me and from what I remember just before I took over the fees were about €7-8k a year I think.
To be fair the accountant did everything including being the contact between the revenue.

My first bill including tax reg. wine licence application, p35, p60, vat return and books of prime entry for two months comes to €1,200.
Would this be correct as I'm told to expect at least €6k on fees the way I'm doing it now?

I'd like to take more part in the books and as I still can remember a small bit around the accounts but have no idea how to do the books up for the accontants.

Do you think I should pick a software package and hopefully lighten the load for the accountant and probably change accountant as he is known to be expensive?

Kluivert I'm down the south I'm afraid and I think I should work at taking more part in the books like sponge bob advised thanks.

SouperComputer

6K seems like a lot to me. For that money you could buy quickbooks and purchase more than enough traning (Axonware do this in Ireland) to take control of your business and maximise your proft (jeeze I sound like a sales rep).

You could also have a look at www.teamwork.ie

Its an online, web-based accouning service. They can handle your returns for you too!

kluivert

That does seem pretty expensive alright.

In my honest opinion I dont believe Accounting Software package will enable to you to understand the fundamental principles of bookkeeping and accounting. Software is a tool and not a replacement for lack of knowledge, therefore I still in believe some type of part time management course would be very benefical to you.

Management course should consist of

Accounts
Management
Marketing
Economics
Communications

This should provide you with an knowledge based business platform to lauch your business into new successes and achievements.

Simple question for your business?

Whats your goal for next week? (Objectives)
How are you going to achieve this (Plan)
What resources do you need to achieve this (Strategy)

Everyone has to start somewhere.

If it was me I would arrange a meeting with your accounting to discuss fees.
Get a writed confirmation of the fees for Vat return, Paye returns, Application for wine license, P35, Annual return of Trading Details, Accounts Preparation, Income Tax.

Also you should use this to compare with other accounting firms and then choose the cheapest price you can get.

But I firmly believe you should do some type of training, I no people who have bought TAS and Quick Book and dont know how to use them as they dont understand the fundamental principles to accounting ie double entry accurals prepayements mutiple entries etc

biz

Thanks guys for putting me in the right track!

Now, I have a fair idea of the double entries and your end of year accounts but do not have a clue what the things I should do and what to leave for the accountants to finish off for the revenue.

I'd really like buy maybe the quickbooks or sage and get at it but if anyone of you guys are around cork who can get me started I'd more than happy to pay you or your time.
In the mean time I'm going to go over my old accountancy books as it's been years since I've done that stuff

I really want to go to an accountant knowing what I want from them this time.

Thanks.

theedee

Hiya biz dude...

Look i can help you get off you get off the ground with your accounting issues... I can also find out if your account is taking the pi** out of you... I am not looking paid so no worrys there... Give me a pm if you still need that help...

Thanks

pvt. joker

my advice to you is to find a great bookeeper. They're cheaper than a full blown accountant and they can handle most of the work. then all you will have to do is pay an accountant to look over everything. the key is finding a good bookeeper though

biz

Thanks pvt. joker I'll keep that in mind but in the mean time theedee is kind enough to work something out for me.

Hopefully I can get into an accounts package and if need be take a course in it as it seems like it's the only way to go to really control and monitor your business.

The courses seem to be pretty expensive and it's going to be hard to find a good one in Cork but I have to do something about the accountant's fees that's for sure!

Lorraine B

Hi there, if you contact your local County Enterprise Board they may be able to help with the cost of an accounts package and/or maybe the training in how to use it

biz

Thanks Lorraine B I'll keep that in mind too, I take it that they are in the phonebook?

Currently waiting for theedee to see what he comes up with.

axonware

Guys

If you want to check out the differences between Quickbooks Accountant, Pro and Regular:
http://www.axonware.ie/quickbooks.xls

If you want want a free trial CD we'll gladly mail one to anyone who wants one. Fill in a demo request
http://www.axe.ie

Collsoft is a good payroll package that links to Qucikbooks and it only 99 euro.
http://www.collsoft.ie/axonware/payroll2006_setup.exe

Sage is another alterntive. You can compare the Sage versions here
http://www.axonware.ie/downloads/sage-comparison.xls

You can also download a trial of MYOB from www.axe.ie

biz

Been doing some research on the softwares available and talking to the accountant and according to him the big red book is most suited for me.

Now I agree for now since I'm just starting off in it as there is nominal accounts, but what puzzles me is the price of it.

The BRB seems the most simplest with no nomial acccounts for the basic version and a 1000 transaction limit and yet the most expensive!

After downloading the demo it looks like excel but frustratingly at the moment it's the one that suits me best!
But I want to progress to another software after I do one year of accounts in the BRB as I would like to take more control in the accounts as advised and it's probably cheaper in the long run.

glenrichkid

Hi Biz
I've worked in and still use many systems for acc's systems for some clients and BRB isn't the greatest at all - like you said it's like excel with an interface - in my exp it leaves a lot to be desired or a lot for the acc to charge you for.
Tas or Sage is the way to go and Sage Instant is the way to go with Quickpay for payroll (Quickpay links to Instant and Tas) - many accountants will simply take an emailed back up file at year end okay it and send it back with a minmal for their stamp of approval -
also given your type of biz you could learn whats relevant on the software to your biz in about 6 or 7 hours - I get someone out to to this - I can recommend someone if need be? (You should be able to then look after the books in about an hour at most a week) focus then on the important things - getting those customers in -
I'll arrange for your payroll service free for a month if you want test that it'd be chargeable after but very minimal??

spaceballs

I must say i've always found Quickbooks to be the easiest accounting package for beginners. I've found a lot of clients have got very mixed up when using Sage for some reason.

One thing no one has asked so far is what business structure you have in place. ie. is it a limited company / partnership?

If it's a limited company and the company turnover is less then €1.5m, then the company could claim audit exemption assuming it meets one or two other requirements, this together with a good accounting package which you are confident in should mean that all you really need to pay an accountant for is formatiing the accounts (however you could probably even do this given the correct template), tax services and maybe company secretarial services, although co. sec requirements for most small companies are very basic and could also be done by yourself very easily.

Obvously that would be dependent on you being happy with the reports which the accounting package is preparing, but if you look at the reports, say a creditors listing, it is very easy for a business owner to know if the report is accurate, ie. I'm sure you know who you owe money to. etc.

If you are a sole trade you do not need an auditors report and therefore could also cut back on the above costs given the correct accounting package.

Even if you still want an accountant to review your figures after you think they are correct you should find that the charge decreases significantly, a client I used to work on had his annual charge reduced from approx. €9k the first two years I did his accounts to around €3k in the third year simply because I convinced him it would be worth his while getting a new accounting package and getting his secretary a proper training on it. The result was instead of spending 4 or 5 weeks going back and forth with queries on the accounts, the accounts were audited and signed off in little over a week.

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

antoinolachtnai

Here's what I say:

I don't know what turnover you are doing. I assume you are doing about 250k/year.

I assume you have no other bookkeeping resource on your staff.

I think the amount you are paying your accountant is very reasonable. He's only charging you EUR 160 per week, which is less than a half-time employee would cost. You could easily spend 10 hours a week on this stuff since you're not experienced with it. Is it worth that?

Could you work out a deal whereby you pay your accountant a fixed retainer monthly, so that you don't get 'bill shock' once a quarter? I'm sure this would suit him too.

By all means, do the accounts yourself if you think you can increase the quality of the accounts by doing it that way. Don't do it to save money, because you won't save any.

Think of it in staff terms. This guy is costing you less than the cost of a member of serving staff working part time and he gives you (and your family if they are involved) the comfort that the books are being kept straight.

Running a restaurant is complex and you need all the help you can get. If you can get good help for that kind of money, stick with the guy.

Concentrate on figuring out ways to bring in more money, by getting more customers or increasing quality and raising prices. If you want efficiencies, cut back your rosters. If your business isn't big enough to support the overhead of an accountant, grow your business. Whatever you do, don't take it out on the accountant because you think he charges too much.