C-Max Vs Scenic

kevodaly

Hi

Can anyone with experience of driving either give me some feedback.
Ideally driving 1.5 dci / 1.6 tdci's.

How do you find driving, comfort, space, fuel economy. Any problems / trips to the dealer etc.

I would be leaning towards the Ford for looks and reliability, but would like to hear opinions on both.

Henry Ford III

I owned 2 x C-Max Zetec 1.6 TDCI's, and they were excellent vehicles. My wife has a new Zetec petrol one which is 100% too.

Problem free. Well built too. They also handled sweetly, and the engines are top rate. Power, refinement, low and mid range punch in overboost, and superb economy.

Renault in my view will be inferior in build quality and reliability.

colm_mcm

The Scenic has lots of fancy cubby holes, and electronic gatgetry. unfortunately, every one that I've had has had some class of electronic problem.

The C-Max is a bit more conservative, but is going to be more reliable. They're not exactly a hit second hand though.

crosstownk

kevodaly wrote:

I would be leaning towards the Ford for looks and reliability

Thats your answer tbh. The Scenic is probably a better fitted out as colm_mcm says. However, I know a guy who is now on his 3rd Scenic and has never had an ounce of trouble with any of them - God obviously likes this guy!

Dilbert75

I think it may also be fair to say that the C-max only has 2 1/2 back seats (ie. small centre seat) where the new model Scenic has 3 - that's most important if you need to put 2x child seats side-by-side. Other than that, I'd probably go for the C-max.

ZENER

Didn't Topgear recently compare these two cars by setting them up as mini-cabs for a night ? Quite informative I thought, really got down to the nitty-gritty on the pros and cons of each car, I think the Scenic won IIRC. Maybe Google could help or the archives on bbc.co.uk/topgear ?

ZEN

Henry Ford III

Dilbert75 wrote:

I think it may also be fair to say that the C-max only has 2 1/2 back seats (ie. small centre seat) where the new model Scenic has 3 - that's most important if you need to put 2x child seats side-by-side. Other than that, I'd probably go for the C-max.

There's no problem with 2 x child seats in the back of a C-Max. A small child could still sit between them too.

Henry Ford III

ZENER wrote:

Didn't Topgear recently compare these two cars by setting them up as mini-cabs for a night ? Quite informative I thought, really got down to the nitty-gritty on the pros and cons of each car, I think the Scenic won IIRC. Maybe Google could help or the archives on bbc.co.uk/topgear ?

ZEN

It's worth checking Parkers for this too. Top Gear don't do quality nor reliability.

tred

Henry Ford III wrote:

It's worth checking Parkers for this too. Top Gear don't do quality nor reliability.

id recommened the diesel c-MAX. We had a petrol one for a week, and i found it fierce heavy on juice.

AlanD

The thing about Renaults is that they make cars that look good, are well designed and are generally comfortable. The problem is their reliability. However, lots of scenics have been sold and not all of them will have had problems. So it's not a fair assumption to think that all Scenics will have problems. All cars may have problems.

In terms of practicality the Scenic seems to be much better designed. The C-Max isn't so bad but I do remember that Topgear test and the Scenic won it in the end I thought. It depends on how versatile a space you need? An estate from another marque would probably do the same job. And dare I say it? A Skoda Octavia estate could be had for similar money second hand. In elegance spec, you'll be wanting for nothing and have loads of space.

I recently spoke to a dealer who had a C-Max on his forecourt for months and just couldn't sell it. I reckon the Scenic would have no such trouble. It's a sought after family car, problems or not.

Best bet would be to go drive each and play with the seating arrangements and pick one based on practicality and comfort. I reckon the C-Max will drive better, but it could ride hard which isn't what you may want for your family. The Scenic should have a nice comfie ride.

Hard to know, I'd like to take a chance on a Scenic, but the sceptic in me might say no. If you could pick one up from a Renault dealer second hand, buy one with service history and a dealer warranty and you should be grand.

AlanD

Oh and another thing, in terms of reliability, the C-Max may not bode so well either.

The 1.6 diesel engine shared in the C-Max, Focus, 407, 307, S40, etc. is blowing camshaft oil seals quite regularly. No recall has been issued yet for them as the manufacturers are still investigating. I don't think all dealers will cover the cost of it since it's not a recognised fault yet.

Got this from a Peugeot dealer.

Although, just like the Scenic, you may never have a problem with it! Fine 1.6 engine though other than that

Henry Ford III

AlanD wrote:

Oh and another thing, in terms of reliability, the C-Max may not bode so well either.

The 1.6 diesel engine shared in the C-Max, Focus, 407, 307, S40, etc. is blowing camshaft oil seals quite regularly. No recall has been issued yet for them as the manufacturers are still investigating. I don't think all dealers will cover the cost of it since it's not a recognised fault yet.

Got this from a Peugeot dealer.

Although, just like the Scenic, you may never have a problem with it! Fine 1.6 engine though other than that

I had 2 x 1.6 TDCI engines. Never had an issue with either.

AlanD

Henry Ford III wrote:

I had 2 x 1.6 TDCI engines. Never had an issue with either.

I reckon the chances of problems with either car are just as small. Renaults problems are always made more vocal

BrianD3

Whatever about relaibility I reckon it's rubbish to say that the Ford has better build quality than the Renault or that Renaults are badly built. It may have been the case in the past that Renaults were plasticky and flimsy but the modern ones such as the Scenic II are at least as well built as a modern Ford. The interior of a Scenic can take plenty of abuse from families also panel gaps, paintwork quality, interior quality are all decent on the Scenic and other Renaults these days.

I wouldn't buy a Ford for its reliability anyway. We have a couple of modern ones and they have been far from trouble free. In just 20k kilometres we've had gearbox and suspension problems with a Focus Mk2 (hatch, not C-max) plus it's had to go back for a rear wiper recall. I've had less grief with my Laguna II which has done 110k miles and is more economical than the Focus despite being a bigger car with a 1.6 petrol engine as opposed to a 1.4 petrol. I also find the Focus II a very noisy and harsh riding car - not just in comparsion to a Laguna (which may not be a fair comparison) but also compared to a previous model Megane. I don't know if this noisiness is normal or if soundproofing was mistakenly left out. If it's the latter then that doesn't say much for build quality!

Finally I just want to say I think modern Fords are generally decent but the British motoring press go way OTT in praising them.

Henry Ford III

AlanD wrote:

Oh and another thing, in terms of reliability, the C-Max may not bode so well either.

The 1.6 diesel engine shared in the C-Max, Focus, 407, 307, S40, etc. is blowing camshaft oil seals quite regularly. No recall has been issued yet for them as the manufacturers are still investigating. I don't think all dealers will cover the cost of it since it's not a recognised fault yet.

Got this from a Peugeot dealer.

Although, just like the Scenic, you may never have a problem with it! Fine 1.6 engine though other than that

Honest John makes no mention of this........

What's Good
First incarnation of 2nd Generation Focus is this five seater Multi Activity Vehicle. Three 'Tip & Tumble' removable rear seats; two all new common rail turbodiesel engines developed jointly with PSA: 110PS 1.6 and 136bhp 2.0 litre; same 6 speed manual transmission as Mondeo TDCI 130; ABS with Brake Assist; six airbags; five three point belts; electronic handbrake similar to revised S Type Jag; ISOFIX child seat fittings. Will be fitted with Ford's Intelligent Protection system and aim for a 5 star NCAP crash safety rating. 1.6 Duratorque common rail 16v diesel offers 107bhp and 176lb ft torque at 1,750rpm, 0-60 in 11.0 seconds, top speed 116mph; 57.6mpg combines and just 129g/km CO2. 2.0 Duratorque 16v with 6-speed manual gearbox has 134bhp and 235lb ft torque at 2,000rpm; does 0-60 in 9.6 seconds, tops out at 125mph; 50.4mpg combined; 148g/km CO2. Also 118bhp 1.8 Duratec HE petrol engine giving 0-60 in 10.5 seconds, 120mph top speed; 39.7mpg combined and 170g/km CO2. This engine also offered with new ZF CVT automatic. List Prices £13,175 - £18,695. On sale UK from 18-10-2003. Insurace froups from 5E for 1.6 100ps petrol Studio model to 10E for 2.0 136PS diesel Ghia model. 1.6TDCI CVT auto well liked by owners. All C-Maxes are extremely comfortable with excellent ingress and egress.

Four Star NCAP crash safety rating with best in class four stars for child protection. Very good security rating.

Road test 1.8 Zetec at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=112

More at www.ford.co.uk

User Group www.ffoc.co.uk
What's Bad
Non walk-through cabin due to massive Ford console between front passengers. No 7 seat option. Very difficult to see dashboard information display in some types of ambient light. C-Max 1.6TDCI with ZF CVT transmission was a late arrival, but has been on sale since March 2004. Reports of a spate of CD/radio thefts from the model. Reports of poor economy and ECU software problems on early 2.0 litre diesels and 1.8 petrol versions (all solved by 2005). Headlamp bulb replacement is a dealer job. Problem with instrument panel of early cars can lead to electronics failing completely. Reports of problems with electronic parking brake of high spec models. Reports of gear lever of 6 speed 2.0 TDCI becoming detached. "Pressure gateway failure" caused turbo failure on early 1.6 16v TDCIs. (In balance I have run a 2.0TDCI Zetec with satnav from March 2005 and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.) One report of problem with interlock between gearchange quadrant of 1.6 TDCI CVT and ignition key preventing removal of key. Cars with electric parking brakes cannot be used for the Driving Test. On early (2004 build) 1.6TDCI CVTs the transmission and the ECU sometimes mismatch momentarily at around 1,600 - 2,000rpm. Three settings for power steering not fitted until 2005 model year. Mysterious 'Engine System Faults' on diesel leading them to lose power and revert to limp home mode may be caused by an intercooler pipe weld fault leading to a crack in the pipe.



What to Watch Out For
A 'characteristic' seems to be that an alteration of the brake bias from standard Focus to cope with the taller body wears the rear pads before the fronts.
Recalls
Apparent TSB recall to rectify faulty front suspension mountings on early 2003/2004 production. September 2005 (build April 2003 to March 2005): Recall of 68,722 Focus and C-Max for checks on the windscreen wipers. Water can work its way into the wiper motor along the arm of the blade. If the water contains salt it can cause the motor to short circuit and leave cars without working wipers. In extreme cases, the short circuit can also cause the wiper assembly to overheat and melt nearby trim components. Cars to be fitted with a new cover, which better seals the motor from water.

AlanD

Henry Ford III wrote:

Honest John makes no mention of this........

Trust me, it's happening too regularly to be just a random fault, however the volumes in which this happens may not require a recall. I know of more than one dealer who's had to fix the problem on the 1.6 diesel more times than he'd like. Honest John may not be the most up to the minute review and could take several months for info like this to get to him.

BrianD3

TBH I'm dubious about the accuracy of the honestjohn reviews. They are ok but there are inaccuracies and wrong information on there. I'd say there's a lot of important stuff omitted too. I wonder where "John" gets his information from.

Alun

AlanD wrote:

Trust me, it's happening too regularly to be just a random fault, however the volumes in which this happens may not require a recall. I know of more than one dealer who's had to fix the problem on the 1.6 diesel more times than he'd like. Honest John may not be the most up to the minute review and could take several months for info like this to get to him.

Over on the C-Max forum on http://www.ffoc.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=95 I've not seen any mention of these kinds of problems in regard to the 1.6 TDCi engines. There've been problems a-plenty with the EGR valves on the 2.0 TDCi powerplants and some MPG problems that appear to be ECU software related, but very few problems reported with the 1.6 version except for some hesitation problems that I and another Irish based subscriber have experienced.

vixen2005

hi,
my advise on the past and its an old threat here from last year but renos are problematic we had one that kicked the bucket at 8300 miles!!:mad: i wont get started but reno aren much good at excepting thety were wrong..

my only advise is the c max we since bought a vw touran

parsi

I had a Scenic. Nice car. We kept it for two years. It fits three child seats in the back no problem. Or 2 plus an adult (thin).

Build wise it was good - durable surfaces, hard wearing, survived three kids.

It was a 1.6 and was very nippy. Even with the roofbox on, 5 in the car and a boot full of wine it was well able to race down the autoroutes.

Storage space is phenomenal - under-seat drawers, floor units, large glovebox, place in the side of the boot - massive amount of space. Loved the electronic dash as well - nice and clear. Being able to undo the childlocks from the drivers console was very useful when dropping off the older fella.

It an electric handbrake which I loved (great for hilly Cork) but Mrs Parsi hated it. Lights were poor and it was virtually impossible to get at them to change them.


It was very reliable but in January I started having issues with the sunroof not closing. It has push-button starting which I used in conjunction with clutching in. The sensor on the clutch pedal went - the wiring had broken and boy was it thin. At that stage herself had a 307SW so I traded in for a Golf...

purpledot

HI I was just wondering if anyone had a similiar experience to me with the C-Max? I bought a year old one in '06 and was totally unaware of the wiper recall issue until 2 weeks ago when the rear wiper motor burnt out and actually went on fire whilst i was driving - not a pleasant experience! Thankfully a good samaritan stopped complete with fire extinguisher - a large hole burnt through the back door panel and there was smoke damage to the panel surrounding the rear window, melted plastic also dripped down on to the boot surround. Apparently three letters were sent to the gargae that owned the car for the first year of its life but these were never acted upon. I am currently trying to have the car restored to it's pre fire state and as I said am wondering if anyone else has been through this.