Okinawan Vs Japanese Karate

Max_Nash

I've been told that the Okinawan styles of karate are more deadly than the Japanese one ie Wado, Shotokan, etc

All Japanese styles came from the Okinawan styles of Shorin Ryu, Gojy Ryu, etc.

When the US dropped the bomb and invaded Japan the Japanese hid the true meaning of their styles from the invading US service men and what was born was what we now call childs karate.

A martial exercise, or sport karate.

The secrets were always there its just that they are hidden but thanks to the likes of Patrick Mc Carthy, George Dillman, etc they are now in the public knowledge.

ShaneT

lol

Roper

I'm telling you lads, Ninja Survive by Europe explains all of this stuff better than anyone can.

Yes Max,
Some Kratty's are more much more deadlier than others. I find it helps to look for the fatter, most bowed to people, they seem to have dealy Kratty down to a fine art.

Boru.

To quote my legendary Anime - Fist of the North Star "Any tool is useful when you know how to use it".

Style doesn't matter too much - its the individual that makes it effective.

You should also run a search of related threads on Kyusho Jutsu and pressure point techniques.

Millionaire

this is an intereting thread.

I am not really a karate man as such...

I have a theory...that Karate as it was supposed to be
in the original and deadliest form, when people used it for survival.

I believe this original karate, would have tooked something very
similar to Combatives as many of us on here have practiced.

The palm shots, knife hand strikes, etc etc...their all from karate.
and if you look at some of them Okinana styles...they all had low kicks.
the kata, is full of deadly techniques.. even "dirty strikes" tons of them.

somewhere long the lines, when karate when to Japan, get got watered down, and then when it went to USA... McDojo... it totally washed out.

I was at a TKD tourney years back. and I was looking at a guy do a kata...
all full of claw stikes, all hand work, etc etc. now the TKD lad probably di dnot have a clue what the techiques were for!!!!

ShaneT

Roper wrote:

I find it helps to look for the fatter, most bowed to people, they seem to have dealy Kratty down to a fine art.

Please stooop! My sides are hurting!..!

Cabelo

Ki balls! DEADLY! ETC!

I kratty.

Millionaire

Kratty was great as a teen. (well ours then was sort of a mix btwn karate and kickboxing...sort of kickboxing taught with a karate angle...if you ounderstand)..

I loved it. every monday and wednesday 1984 in a church hall. learning new moves and techniques ( always handy for thursday afternoon scraps behind the school gym!... back then we had sort of a MMA bar knuclkle league in school....serious!!!). thinking your Bruce Lee. Trying to master flying sidekicks cause they looked so cool in Fighters mag. we all had home made Nanchakus which everyone twirled before Karraty class. Murderous sparring sessions... adults battering the heads of us young punk teens. bloody noses , and black eye! and then everyone stoped at the local chipper on way home for greasy chips onion rings and a club orange!

That was the days of Mu Gen Do Karate/Kickboxing in the 80s down in Monaghan. You know been a green or a blue belt is great (as opposed to when I became Black)...cause and green belt your started to get good, you 've served a bit of training time, you getting a bit more sure of yourself, and cocky, and it don't look as studid as wearing an orange belt.

Sure we did loads of dead drills but they were fun too, but once the sparring started it was a whole new ball game!

I think I ll start a thread about MA in the 80s in ireland!!

pma-ire

Max_Nash wrote:

I've been told that the Okinawan styles of karate are more deadly than the Japanese one ie Wado, Shotokan, etc

I would'int say that! It's down to the individual really!! All styles based on the original 'Te have the same parts built into them.

Max_Nash wrote:

All Japanese styles came from the Okinawan styles of Shorin Ryu, Gojy Ryu, etc.

All Japanese syles of Karate came from Okinawa (though Mas Oyama was Korean ).

Max_Nash wrote:

When the US dropped the bomb and invaded Japan the Japanese hid the true meaning of their styles from the invading US service men and what was born was what we now call childs karate.

A martial exercise, or sport karate.

This happened way before the bomb and US army men were trained!!

Okinawa was annexed by Japan so the japs were invaders, as the yanks were to the japs! Would you think that the Okinawans would keep something from the japs??

Funagoshi may have taught some of his long term students? But many of them even admitted as not knowing the meaning behind many movements in Karate? Also the Shotokan was a school for college students!! As was the Kodokan (and shared the same dojo for some time!!). Each MA had been adapted so that the students would get a good physical workout more so than to learn fighting skills!!

It is recorded that Funagoshi was very displeased when the JKA (which was a break-away from his school) started to adapt Shotokan Karate to sporting competions. He saw this as an abuse of the style.

Max_Nash wrote:

The secrets were always there its just that they are hidden but thanks to the likes of Patrick Mc Carthy, George Dillman, etc they are now in the public knowledge.

And Prof. Rick Clark! Read this piece for more information...
http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/the_wall_of_silence.htm

or this one also touches on the subject...
http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/the_thread_that_binds.htm

There are no secrets!? Just forgottten training methods and practices! To talk like this is to give the subject an air of mystery that helps money mongers ply there trade!!

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

this is an intereting thread.

I am not really a karate man as such...

I have a theory...that Karate as it was supposed to be
in the original and deadliest form, when people used it for survival.

I believe this original karate, would have tooked something very
similar to Combatives as many of us on here have practiced.

The palm shots, knife hand strikes, etc etc...their all from karate.
and if you look at some of them Okinana styles...they all had low kicks.
the kata, is full of deadly techniques.. even "dirty strikes" tons of them.

somewhere long the lines, when karate when to Japan, get got watered down, and then when it went to USA... McDojo... it totally washed out.

I was at a TKD tourney years back. and I was looking at a guy do a kata...
all full of claw stikes, all hand work, etc etc. now the TKD lad probably di dnot have a clue what the techiques were for!!!!

Thats pretty much the best way to look at it man!!

pma-ire

Elytron wrote:

Did anyone use kratty for survival? Didn't pre-modern japan people just wander around with swords? And then they started making cameras/tvs/cars/tamigochis and became peaceful again?

Karate is not really Japanese or even Okinawan! It came from China to Okinawa and the Okinawans would have used it to defend themselves from Samurai. Adapting the traditional Karate weapons like Tonfa, Sai, Nunchucku, Oar etc from farming tools.

The Japanese used ju jitsu as the empty hand fighting system!!

Millionaire

I used Karatty for survival all the time as a teen! LOL!!!!!

It was great for fighting the Tyrone and Armagh boys after the disco on saturday nights!!! Thats in the 80s too! LOL!! Hook kicks and all would be flying.

I remember our Kraatty club had a fund raiser once in some disco bar in Carrickmacross., and whats it they used to call them..." a dinner dance" or something, chicken and chips... well there was fcuking murder at this one too! a load of yokels from the border, heard there was a karate club night and invaded it...and well could ya imagine!!!! lol!!!
it was like on "only Fools and Horses" when Rodneys band with the aggressive singer played as gig in the Shamrock Club! LOL!!

Fcuk I am on a 80s Kratty buzz today...

Wes98

Millionaire wrote:

I used Karatty for survival all the time as a teen! LOL!!!!!

It was great for fighting the Tyrone and Armagh boys after the disco on saturday nights!!! Thats in the 80s too! LOL!! Hook kicks and all would be flying.


Fist of Fury style, eh Millionare? LOL!

pearsquasher

I agree this thread is interesting. From the little i've read - i don't pactice it btw - what Millionaire and Pma-ire says makes sense.

Lets not forget though that there is the "art" itself and then theres the people practiciing it - some great and some not so great, like with anything and the more you go away from the source the less like the source you are. Like that old story about the soup being watered down so you just get the "soup of the soup". Commercial marketing doesn't help matters either and poor old karate seems to have taken the full force of this phenonomen over the years. I mean what do most people think of when they hear "martial arts" - karate usually amd they make a snap motion with their fist - weird.

Isn't it facinating that a relatively minor provincial art from a small island in the pacific has become this iconic thing that reverbs throughout western culture.

Personally if i was going to study it i'd find a verifiable true direct lineage back to one of the true sources of karate - P.McCarthy seems to be one for example and train with them. But thats just me.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with taking up an activity if its healthy and run by responsible people. My 10 year old nephew does it and i'm not to worried about whether his teacher is next in line to mastership but rather a decent member of the community who lets kids have an outlet for their energies. Other friends study it to varying degrees and if their happy and make it "work" for them then it's all good.

ninjaburr

You could spend a lot of time on this thread trying gauge the feeling of the "...where karate went wrong brigade..." or you could just read this!:D

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/pedigree.htm

ninjaburr

I think maybe a permenant thread dedicated to karate in the '80's is the way to go! Or maybe even an entire website!Now that would be cool.......with features like "Best riot in a teenage disco", "Best Are You Starting Line after a few Cidona's " , "Kata and fighting on buses".....and much more.It would be bleeden rapid!!

The Bored One

You know I really can't see how anyone could take this seriously after someone mentioned George Dillman, I really can't...

dlofnep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NfkH3Q4JOQ&search=Karate%20kid

Millionaire

ninjaburr wrote:

I think maybe a permenant thread dedicated to karate in the '80's is the way to go! Or maybe even an entire website!Now that would be cool.......with features like "Best riot in a teenage disco", "Best Are You Starting Line after a few Cidona's " , "Kata and fighting on buses".....and much more.It would be bleeden rapid!!

Yes, I am going to start this thread on here on the weekend, where we can share 80s Kartty stories!

I was thinking back to some old memories. and MA was different then, sure, training was a lot less advanced as now. but back then, it was certainly very rough...well where I trained was!!! still its all part of what shaped me as an MA person.

Was looking at the Morrismethod web site, shall read than on weekend. it is very interesting

pma-ire

ninjaburr wrote:

You could spend a lot of time on this thread trying gauge the feeling of the "...where karate went wrong brigade..." or you could just read this!:D

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/pedigree.html

link did'int work??

Millionaire

go to www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk and you can get in from there.

interesting site

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

go to www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk and you can get in from there.

interesting site

I put the "L" into the Html and it worked

Damo W

Max_Nash wrote:

The secrets were always there its just that they are hidden but thanks to the likes of Patrick Mc Carthy

pearsquasher wrote:

Personally if i was going to study it i'd find a verifiable true direct lineage back to one of the true sources of karate - P.McCarthy seems to be one for example and train with them. But thats just me.

Hi Guys,

If your interested in seeing more his website is..
http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/

Some specific articles...his journey the 'Lost Art' etc.
http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/thinking_outside_the_box.htm

Kata: An Art with a Thousand Names
http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/Koryu%20Uchinadi.htm

Well there is a lot there, cheers.

Damien