What breed of dog do you shoot over?

PAIMEI

Having shot over german pointers for years I bought a black labrador retriever last year, happy with her progress so far, shes only just over a year. One question, I was always of the impression that Labs were flushing dogs but I've spoken with a few people recently who believe that a lab can actually set, similar to a pointer, anyone got any further info/opinions..

Umiq88

think its called FCUKSH!TE yeah thats it the dog couldnt find its own tail if it tryed lucky its not mine or it might not be around.

"honestly officer i thought it was a fox"

Double Barrel

PAIMEI,
For the record:
"The clear and unarguable fact is that the Labrador is a retriever, not a pointing dog. There may be a residual instinct to point in certain Labradors. That does not make the Labrador a pointing breed. It was bred for use as a retriever of game and in this country particularly, as a waterfowl retriever. There are any number of sporting breeds that excel at pointing upland game as well as flushing such game. The Labrador is not one of those breeds and should not be bred or sold to the public as a pointing breed." http://thelabradorclub.com/library/point.html



To answer your question, I have seen labs that sit when they contact a bird and there seems to be a handful of breeders in the States who intentionally breed Labs that demonstrate the pointing instinct. My father raised Irish Setters and Labrador's and as one can imagine there were a few mixed couplings... .... The most interesting of the offspring was a large black dog that ran like the wind and was one of the best gun dogs my father ever trained. A wonderful open water retriever his real forte was heavy woodcock cover. He did not point or set but would let forth a different yelp for different game birds and fur animals, a great asset in cover.

I have an aging Irish setter, a pointer, a springer spaniel and a lab. The pointer and the Labrador were saved because the owner was not able to work them due to his advanced age.

Vegeta

The first hunting dog we had was a red n white irish setter, then there was a string of springers. One of whom could understand perfect english, it was uncanny. The first time we brought him hunting he scented a pheasant and picked the bird up in his mouth and brought it back to us, fully alive and unhurt, we were well impressed and took the bird and released him

We currently have a springer and 2 cocker pups which are being trained at the moment

PAIMEI

Well I was always of the opinion that a lab wouldnt point/set but there was a fella locally reckoned his pure-bred lab would, I always thought that it must have been a dropper that he was sold as a pure-bred, hence the setting, but then somone else said to me recently that they would set, again I think it sounds dodgy..

macnas

Springer Spaniel and a Black Lab.

KerryShooter

3 Springer Spaniels, that are all shoot-hot, a black lab cross, not sure what its crossed with but got an feeling it could be a heat-seeker, that black-lab will pull downed woodcock from the thickest brush,
the father in law's a ghillie, he's used Springers, Cockers, Labs, Pointers. Red & English Setters, Curly Coated Retriever, Water Spaniels and a lot more over the years, and he prefers Springers anyday of the week.

fathersymes

A German Wire-haired Pointer, she's 9 months old and working naturally. Like they say about Labs are born trained and Springers die half trained.

Double Barrel

Fathersymes,
GWP's are wonderful gundogs and a pleasure to shoot over. Enjoy. Is she your first GWP?
My one and only GWP passed on to gundog heaven in 03 and I think the hunt is on for another. If you do not mind me asking, who was the breeder. You can PM me if you wish.

Hans in his prime:

Hezz700

At the moment i got a great little hunting companion, she's a 3 yr old Brittany (black and white) the first i've had. a very eager little thing, always wants to please.fantastic nose and pretty good at retreivel, but i've noticed if i have her steadied and leave her unchecked she will start to move about after 5 to 8 mins. is this in her nature or should i blame my own training tecnique? maybe i expect to much?

Hezz

spideog7

I have Springer , Red Setter cross
Savage dog (I mean savage good of course! )
He's failin now though...he just hasn't got it in him anymore
was thinkin about goin for a Brittany when the time comes..I know someone who has some...they are not hunters just pets and they still hunt the whole time...when they are bringin them for a walk or whatnot....wicked nose on them little fellas.
Pat

Umiq88

we used to have labs and one in particular would always go off hunting by himself and bring back rabbits and often caught birds and rats

unfortunatly this was all before i started shooting and he's since died we have a boxer now which dont get me wrong are lovely dogs and make great pets but is useless for anything wont do what she's told she has a fantastic nose though

terminator2

i have a springer bitch about a year and a half old and shes a dinger i had her trained by a lad who lives just outside kells ,and i would have no problem recommending him.

J.R.

Cocker spaniel & shooting partner has a golden ladrador - good combination & they work great together.

jimmyzx

I have at my disposal 5 springers and a llewelyn setter who thinks he's a springer , but it's still young so we're hoping his pointing instinct will start to show through this season. Personally I love the springers, they are a great all rounder and fun to watch hunting even if you're not shooting.

Auldloon

No dog nowadays as dont live in ireland anymore:( Had a beautifull lurcher recently and several springers before that. Best was the first one that i reared from a pup.
Extremely headstrong but would work his heart out and pulled off some fairly spectacular things over the years.
Found out after he died that he was probably a springer/setter cross which would explain a lot:)
I will see if i can scan some photos of him and stick them up

stevoman

i have a lewellin setter, black and white.

cavan shooter

I have no dog at the moment my springer passed on last year he had cancer, now I'm scared getting another springer as he was only 5 and it was the second springer to die of the dreaded disease.

I have shot over springers since I was 16 (22 years)
At the moment I am torn between a GWP and a cocker, I have kids etc and found the springers to fit very well into family life and also work.

Need something that will work a ditch and retrieve including water hence the GWP

To be honest I don't know what to go for

stevoman

cavan shooter wrote: »

I have no dog at the moment my springer passed on last year he had cancer, now I'm scared getting another springer as he was only 5 and it was the second springer to die of the dreaded disease.

I have shot over springers since I was 16 (22 years)
At the moment I am torn between a GWP and a cocker, I have kids etc and found the springers to fit very well into family life and also work.

Need something that will work a ditch and retrieve including water hence the GWP

To be honest I don't know what to go for

i hear cockers are a great dog. thats what i will be going for next. sometimes i am kind of sorry i got a setter as it limits what i can hunt.

cavan shooter

Whats their temperament like, especially around kids??

stevoman

cavan shooter wrote: »

Whats their temperament like, especially around kids??

perfect as far as i am aware. giddy like every other spaniel, but a good dog to have.

whitser

cavan shooter wrote: »

I have no dog at the moment my springer passed on last year he had cancer, now I'm scared getting another springer as he was only 5 and it was the second springer to die of the dreaded disease.

I have shot over springers since I was 16 (22 years)
At the moment I am torn between a GWP and a cocker, I have kids etc and found the springers to fit very well into family life and also work.

Need something that will work a ditch and retrieve including water hence the GWP

To be honest I don't know what to go for

go for a springer thats not heavily line bred with field trial breeding. the cancer occurs cos the dogs are too in-bred. a old type springer,bred to hunt not trial. a springer is the ultimate all rounder,imo. mine is retired now but he could hunt all day without rest,6,7,8 hours. alot of the springers today that are heavily diluted with field trial breeding can only do about 3 hours max and they burn out. they've been bred down to small and slight, fast movers do well at trials but dont last pissing time out in middle of december.a springer should be built to bulldoze cover, short on the leg but heavy and stocky.

cavan shooter

Have you thought of the HPR (Hunt Point retrieve) breeds like the GWP et al, They seem to be coming on,

I have a feeling the traditional working dog gene pool like the springers etc is getting a bit shallow hence the cancers. Thats why I am thinking of going away from them

stevoman

cavan shooter wrote: »

Have you thought of the HPR (Hunt Point retrieve) breeds like the GWP et al, They seem to be coming on,

I have a feeling the traditional working dog gene pool like the springers etc is getting a bit shallow hence the cancers. Thats why I am thinking of going away from them

just keep in mind what you will be huinting though. I have a setter and im bringing her one, but this means that icant hunt duck with her (this year anyways) and rabbits are out of the question. the srpinger or cocker are a super all rounder and if your like myself and want to take the dog everywhere you go a spaniel would suit. i would love one, but i decided that if i was going to get my first gundog and give 110% in training i decided that a setter would suit me as the were that bit easier to train and understand, but thats just me, other will always have different opinions when it comes to dog training. get what suits you mate!

whitser

cavan shooter wrote: »

Have you thought of the HPR (Hunt Point retrieve) breeds like the GWP et al, They seem to be coming on,

I have a feeling the traditional working dog gene pool like the springers etc is getting a bit shallow hence the cancers. Thats why I am thinking of going away from them

there's still good honest springers around. basically stay away from any one who thinks that being ikc reg is important thing to have on your dog. i had a springer x wgp years ago she was decent but hunted like a springer. buy off lads who use their dogs to hunt week in week out all day long and you should get a decent dog. if a breeder starts going on about field trail this and ikc reg that i'd give him a wide bearth. all just my opinion,sure some will disagree.

cavan shooter

Stevo

I guess 22 years with springers is a habit thats going to be hard to break and maybe I'll look outside ireland for the next one.

Donalmit

Hi,

I currently have a 6 yo Lab, 3 yo GWP bitch and an 18 month old GWP dog. Pups first season is almost here and he is showing some good potential to date. Much nicer temperment than the bitch and alot easier to train also. There is a big variation in some of the GWP lines in this country already. Make sure you do your research and "insist" on seeing at least one if not both parents working game (quartering,pointing and retreiving) before you buy.

Mitch

Tackleberry.

i've a lab/springer cross brill at the ducks ,will heal sit no prop but on a phesant you'd swear he is crossed with a greyhound ,BUT he is for the ducks. I've two HPR Viszla's a dog of 2yrs, hunted very well on the heather yesterday morn i should of shot 3 birds but bad shots by me, the bitch is 1 yr not a lot done with her she wont hunt till end of season just to fire her up, But i'd recommend the viszla as a hunting dog and very good around people. and kids

bogteal

For the last 5 years I've shot over 2 dogs, Lab and GSP got them both out of the pound, the GPS was a natural, hunt all day and rock steady but you would want to be quick to get to the bird or she would eat it only the first one after that no problem, the lab took a couple of days to train after that she loved it.

jwshooter

i have three wire hairs there all kind and loving dogs my oldest bitch is 8 and she is a clever fecker ,i can hunt deer pheasants duck pigeon rabbits all in the one week with her and she will hunt each one right ,i have her grand daughter working now and she is looking like a chip of the ole block i had springers from the time i was a boy but i will never be with out a wire hair .

C04433190

I have English setters myself. I've bred a few litters and all the pups are extremely easily trained and always obedient. I was just wondering why people are so against the old setters? I shoot lot of pheasent, grouse and partridge and would never swap the setters. I just use the springer for gathering or mowing through lunatic ditches but otherwise he just lets the setters hunt. Also, my old setter dog retrieves and has a soft mouth too..Is that the complete dog? However i wouldn't bring him on ducks as his retrieving was not something I ever intended him for. How's the first few days of the ducks go? I started a new job and couldn't get home yet but i'll be doing a bit this evening please god!!

pullandbang

This is my GSP, Charlie.



I also have a pup out of her who should be working this year.

Double Barrel

P&B
Good looking GSP.

I need to update seeing as this thread goes back to 06

This is Scooter in training.



And her mother Kate

terminator2

Bonnie and Ben two well behaved good all rounders

p28559

springers still seem to out number all of the other breeds.

know some lads with german pointers...

great fun hunting with a mix of breeds...

kinda covers all possibilities.............

deeksofdoom

this is Roxy my beating dog well thats the intention anyway,

This is Misty my GWP, she was really on fire the end of last season unfortunately she's gone off the boil at the moment but that's the way with GWPs

And this is Bruce my first dog, a Dropper (GSP/ESS cross I think), he's mad to mad for me, try following this fellah all day he's nuts

kerryman12

I was going through this thread again and noticed this post from JW http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054943426&page=2 .

i can hunt deer pheasants duck pigeon rabbits all in the one week with her and she will hunt each one right

Is it common to have a dog like this who canbe so versatile?
I remember readin somewhere that you should train your dogs for specific types of work ie one for deer say and another for fowling, or is JW just very luck?

REgards

terminator2

whitser wrote: »

there's still good honest springers around. basically stay away from any one who thinks that being ikc reg is important thing to have on your dog. i had a springer x wgp years ago she was decent but hunted like a springer. buy off lads who use their dogs to hunt week in week out all day long and you should get a decent dog. if a breeder starts going on about field trail this and ikc reg that i'd give him a wide bearth. all just my opinion,sure some will disagree.

im not being rude or trying to wind you up but breeds like the spaniels and labs and all other pedigree dogs have taken hundreds of years to perfect and along comes someone and they think they can improve the breed overnight by crossing it with some other type of dog.............. needs their head examined

meathstevie

I use a golden lab I got for nothing of a lad who bought him for his girlfriend and she didn't want him. Up until recently I thought I had to get rid of him. Two short planks put together with stupid glue was puting it mildly.

A couple of months ago he had a complete personality change, he sort of matured in a couple of weeks time. I took him out for a mooch around only yesterday..he was flushing birds left right and center and done a few lovely retrieves on a couple of crows I shot around a grain storage shed. No whistles or special commands used only come here Bob, fetch Bob, go back Bob, get in there Bob. I decided to put him to the test and threw one of the crows in a fast flowing river followed by : fetch Bob..in he went grabbed it by a wing and dropped it back at my feet. Jeezes, if he keeps going the way he is I'm going to have a cracking season.

On side note : I'm not much of a believer in overdoing training for a gun dog. You can't train a dog to do what he hasn't got in him. A dog that won't hunt from it's own free will can't be trained to be a hunter end of story. You can only encourage them to bring out their natural abilities and train them for a bit of usefull basic obedience.

whitser

terminator2 wrote: »

im not being rude or trying to wind you up but breeds like the spaniels and labs and all other pedigree dogs have taken hundreds of years to perfect and along comes someone and they think they can improve the breed overnight by crossing it with some other type of dog.............. needs their head examined

they have taken hundreds of years to perfect but they've only taken a few years to ruin also. money men and show breeders have done enormous damage to working dogs. the fact is that lines have become weak from in breeding and out crossing is necessary to improve bloodlines. back in the day dogs were only judged on how the preformed not on who their grand-parents were. i'd rather breed off 2 good working dogs,despite what breed they were, then breed from 2 dogs because they are the same breed/pedigree.
when the names on a piece of paper are more important then the dogs ability then the line is in trouble. i've been having this debate on working terrier forums. lads giving too much credence to what line the terrier is off instead of judging the dog solely on its ability and its work.

terminator2

Thats why you are better buying a dog off a responsible breeder as it is not in his interest to breed too closely for the very reason that his reputation is on the line.If you buy a good dog off a breeder well the chances are that when the time comes to buy another dog you will go back to that same breeder because you trust him .To me that makes good business sence

shaft666

GSP

whitser

terminator2 wrote: »

Thats why you are better buying a dog off a responsible breeder as it is not in his interest to breed too closely for the very reason that his reputation is on the line.If you buy a good dog off a breeder well the chances are that when the time comes to buy another dog you will go back to that same breeder because you trust him .To me that makes good business sence

thats what i said in my oringinal post, buy off lads who hunt thier dogs regularly and hunt them hard. but the gene pool is getting smaller for good pedigree working dogs. and breeders obsession with pedigree is not helping. so what if theres gwp blood in the line or if the dogs grand-father was half setter or what ever, as long as he's a good hunter.

meathstevie

The best dog my old man ever had ( I'm only on my first own dog really ) was cross between a Griffon and a GWP. No paperwork on either side but jeezes did he hunt.

jwshooter

whitser wrote: »

thats what i said in my oringinal post, buy off lads who hunt thier dogs regularly and hunt them hard. but the gene pool is getting smaller for good pedigree working dogs. and breeders obsession with pedigree is not helping. so what if theres gwp blood in the line or if the dogs grand-father was half setter or what ever, as long as he's a good hunter.

with any thing worth while time is most important .with my wire hairs i will not push a dog ,these dogs are clever and will respond to good handling ,my pup is 18 months old now pointing ducks on the pond and deer ,i shot a few deer for her last monday and she winded them well sat down when she seen them ,on the stalk in she stayed well back i never had to look at her when i was shooting . she is going to be a savage bird dog loves cover ,but if there brain is not stimulated they will not work out ..remember a dog will learn noting in a kennel

deeksofdoom

jwshooter wrote: »

with any thing worth while time is most important .with my wire hairs i will not push a dog ,these dogs are clever and will respond to good handling ,my pup is 18 months old now pointing ducks on the pond and deer ,i shot a few deer for her last monday and she winded them well sat down when she seen them ,on the stalk in she stayed well back i never had to look at her when i was shooting . she is going to be a savage bird dog loves cover ,but if there brain is not stimulated they will not work out ..remember a dog will learn noting in a kennel

Yes I have to agree with you here. I haven't done a whole lot with my GWP as of late the summer being so ****e didn't get out with her as much as I should but with the last weeks fine weather we've been out and she's coming on nicely again. She worked a cock pheasant lovely today, great to see her coming back into form.