land Question

mountainyman

Sir Terence M'Mahon dislikes Ireland intensely. He owns some land there which contains a ruined (and burnt) country house a heavily poached river (he doesn't like fishing) and some marginal agricultural land.

Sir Terence never visits Ireland; he prefers Nice and Soho where he meets his nephew Patrick M'Mahon for dinner at the latters club and makes him an offer.

Patrick M'Mahon his nephew has alway been fond of Ireland and listens with interest when Sir Terence offers to sell him the farm and house for £200,000 stg. They haggle and agree on £125,000 stg. The land is held in fee simple and there are a number of easements.

Patrick flies over to investigate a week later; the ruined house is there. There are cattle sheltering in it; however there is no wall or fence on the property other than at its perimiter.

Patrick meets Liam McMahon the owner of the cattle and tells him of his intention to buy.

A year later Patrick sells his share of an advertising agency and retires. He plans to move to Ireland to write a series of novels about the decline of the Irish aristocracy. When he arrives he finds a wall around the ruined house. Liam tells him that he has sheltered cattle there for 12 years and the land is now his.

Advise Patrick.



MM

Victor

Get a lawyer before forking out 125 big ones.

besty

Adverse possession is now contrary to the ECHR.

See the judgement in JA Pye.
http://sim.law.uu.nl/SIM/CaseLaw/hof.nsf/0/dffb7ed5c7c4b9dec12570b900408028?OpenDocument

Edit: Also the case of Beaulane Properties dealt with the grazing of horses I think it was and that was also defeated.

dermot_sheehan

mountainyman wrote:

Sir Terence M'Mahon dislikes Ireland intensely. He owns some land there which contains a ruined (and burnt) country house a heavily poached river (he doesn't like fishing) and some marginal agricultural land.

Sir Terence never visits Ireland; he prefers Nice and Soho where he meets his nephew Patrick M'Mahon for dinner at the latters club and makes him an offer.

Patrick M'Mahon his nephew has alway been fond of Ireland and listens with interest when Sir Terence offers to sell him the farm and house for £200,000 stg. They haggle and agree on £125,000 stg. The land is held in fee simple and there are a number of easements.

Patrick flies over to investigate a week later; the ruined house is there. There are cattle sheltering in it; however there is no wall or fence on the property other than at its perimiter.

Patrick meets Liam McMahon the owner of the cattle and tells him of his intention to buy.

A year later Patrick sells his share of an advertising agency and retires. He plans to move to Ireland to write a series of novels about the decline of the Irish aristocracy. When he arrives he finds a wall around the ruined house. Liam tells him that he has sheltered cattle there for 12 years and the land is now his.

Advise Patrick.





MM

To achieve adverse possession you need to exercise "dominion" over the property, fencing the land and treating it as your own is prima facie exercising dominion. I'm sure there's a bunch of case law out there about whether keeping animals and in what circumstances constitutes exercising dominion, but i dont know it off hand.

Regardless of what the ECtHR says, the Supreme Court in Cahill v. Sutton says that the statute of limitations is constitutional, it's the oireachtas balancing the various rights of the citizens.

Lplated

Isn't the answer in the question? Patrick flies over to see the property, no wall. 'A year later', having retired, the wall is built.

mountainyman

There was no wall on the first visit; but surely the wall is merely indicative of adverse posession not a requirement?

besty

mountainyman wrote:

There was no wall on the first visit; but surely the wall is merely indicative of adverse posession not a requirement?

AFAIK, the adverse possessor has to demonstrate a willingness to exclude the world at large (including the rightful owner) and operate with an intention to behave like the owner.

This is where the building of the wall would be relevant IMO.