Overpair facing weird action 400NL

pok3rplaya

Villian is your average fish.

Is there value in the river?
Also I messed up the other parts of the hand right?

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Hand #322776254 at table: Table TH 1031
Started: Tue Jun 06 01:17:01 2006

FatFrank is at seat 1 with 539.70
All-in4Fun is at seat 2 with 390.00
dziekan is at seat 3 with 341.10
Roccodk is at seat 4 with 902.62
Hedodave is at seat 5 with 115.33
spockito is at seat 6 with 290.34
X-Charity is at seat 7 with 393.00
BumbleBee is at seat 8 with 708.00
GotThePowR is at seat 9 with 386.00
Diefast2b1 is at seat 10 with 670.20

dziekan posts the large blind 4.00
All-in4Fun posts the small blind 2.00

All-in4Fun: Jh, Jc

Pre-flop:

Roccodk: Fold
Hedodave: Fold
spockito: Call 4.00
X-Charity: Call 4.00
BumbleBee: Fold
GotThePowR: Fold
Diefast2b1: Call 4.00
FatFrank: Raise 20.00
All-in4Fun: Call 20.00
dziekan: Fold
spockito: Call 20.00
X-Charity: Call 20.00
Diefast2b1: Call 20.00

Flop (Board: 4d, 2d, 4h):

All-in4Fun: Check
spockito: Bet 32.00
X-Charity: Call 32.00
Diefast2b1: Call 32.00
FatFrank: Fold
All-in4Fun: Raise 84.00
spockito: Fold
X-Charity: Call 84.00
Diefast2b1: Fold

Turn (Board: 4d, 2d, 4h, 9h):

All-in4Fun: Check
X-Charity: Check

River (Board: 4d, 2d, 4h, 9h, 2h):

All-in4Fun: Bet 152.00
X-Charity: Call 152.00

Gholimoli

Do you know much about the villain?
To be honest the action looks like a PP that has you beat.
After the 9 on the turn the only over pair he is going to call a bet with which you have beat is TT . and your behind QQ,KK,AA .it’s a miles ahead/miles behind situation .i would just try to make to show down as cheap as possible.
I would certainly not bet the river here as its very hard to get called by a hand that you have beat. also if he comes over the top you then you will have to drop your hand so everything considered it’s a check for me.

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

Do you know much about the villain?
To be honest the action looks like a PP that has you beat.
After the 9 on the turn the only over pair he is going to call a bet with which you have beat is TT . and your behind QQ,KK,AA .it’s a miles ahead/miles behind situation .i would just try to make to show down as cheap as possible.
I would certainly not bet the river here as its very hard to get called by a hand that you have beat. also if he comes over the top you then you will have to drop your hand so everything considered it’s a check for me.

Yo Gholi -
His play does not look like AA/KK/QQ. His play also does not look like 4x or 2x or 99.

I think hero should be good here a lot of the time.

What about reraising preflop?

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Yo Gholi -
His play does not look like AA/KK/QQ. His play also does not look like 4x or 2x or 99.

I think hero should be good here a lot of the time.

What about reraising preflop?

i agree that the play does not look like AA,KK but QQ is very possible.
i just read the OP again and saw the line "villain is your normal fish...".
does that mean he calls here with 66,77,88 ,AK,AQ,AJ ?
if thats what you think villain is like then by all means but i think its more like QQ or TT .

fuzzbox

Limped after a limper? Smooth called a raise? Smooth called a bet on a 4-high flop? Smooth called a subsequent raise? Checked behind on the turn?

QQ ?

Sure, its possible, but not highly likely. TT is more likely (and 88).


Oh - I didnt see that hero c/r the flop .... I hate that line, dont do that.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Limped after a limper? Smooth called a raise? Smooth called a bet on a 4-high flop? Smooth called a subsequent raise? Checked behind on the turn?

QQ ?

Sure, its possible, but not highly likely. TT is more likely (and 88).


Oh - I didnt see that hero c/r the flop .... I hate that line, dont do that.

Oh man I completely miss read the OP.
I thought the action was:
Villain raises
Hero calls,
Flop 442
.
..
..
and all the rest.
Its too early in the morning for me yet.
The action deffo doesn’t look like an over pair to JJ by any shape or form.

Hectorjelly

I think the chk raise isnt that bad, if the action is significent before it gets to you you can fold having invested very little, and all those callers look pretty weak.

Thats not a very good river card though, I think id bet smaller and fold to a raise.

pok3rplaya

I like the flop c/r because
a) it reps a 4. Even though a thinking player wouldn't give me credit often, it still reps more strength than I actually have.
b) It gives me a cheap way out if things get crazy.

Why don't you like it fuzz?

His turn check basically tells me he has no 4 and if an overpair is a large part of his range I'm not really all that worried about free cards.

It's true about the river card though, I hadn't actually noticed that at the time.

fuzzbox

Yo Pok3
If you are repping the 4 (and successfully) then what do you get called by?

Now you are oop, and you have a big pot, and you ..... check the turn?

Sweet.

cardshark202

pok3rplaya wrote:

I like the flop c/r because
a) it reps a 4. Even though a thinking player wouldn't give me credit often, it still reps more strength than I actually have.
b) It gives me a cheap way out if things get crazy.

I don't like the flop c/r at all. The reasons you give above are pretty bad imo. I don't like the idea of overrepresenting JJ on that board when it has a good chance of being the best hand anyway. I think check-calling the flop and either same on turn or bet-folding to a raise is a better line here.

On the river you aren't beating much at all so unless you think A9 and TT will call there you should check.

Hectorjelly

I dont normally like a check raise but here I think its much better than normally. There are 3 other players in the hand - what card exactly are you looking for on the turn? That 32 wasnt even a real bet, theres more than 100 in the pot preflop.

cardshark202

I guess if its lead for something like 75+ a c/r is much worse. I see your point about 32 being so small but it wasn't like the c/r was great either compared to the pot size. Making a proper check-raise here will surely only get action from a 4 or AA/KK or even 22.

I still think check-calling or leading the flop is better than check-raising, even when a small bet has been made.

pok3rplaya

Yeah you're right, my reasons were pretty bad, I think they hold up on a 997 flop with 3 people (me with JJ).

I don't assume that X-Charity can fold an overpair to my c/r though and I don't want 4 people seeing the turn when there are 3 possible overcards to my jacks. Better reason?