Continuation bets in cash games

willis

Ive started playing a lot of cash the last couple days, 1/2nl and played about 3k hands. Ive been struggling a bit on when to slow down when i miss the flop after my preflop raises. Now i know it often depends on the texture of the flop/ type of opponents so here is just 2 broad scenarios

Hand1: Folded to you in CO, you make it 8 with AQo, the sb calls, bb folds. Flop is K33, 2 spades. He checks, you? He is standard abc player, not too tight but not too loose. Should you bet and if so why? If called, how do you plan on playing a blank on the turn?

Hand 2: Folded to you CO, you raise to 8 with AQo, the button (loosey goosey any2) calls, the bb(standard player,could have wide range) calls, flop is 8 5 2 rainbow. BB checks to you, again do you bet and if called do you bet the turn if (a) higher than 8, (b) lower than 8, does it matter

I have found myself firing at too many pots all the way and losing my stack due to not slowing down when called. Looking at PT, i rarely hit these flops with the likes of AQ AK so i keep finding myself in pots with just 2 overcards etc and i constantly feel i have to keep betting with no hand. All advice wanted please

Vamos

This doesn't answer your question directly but some advice about CB'ing against shortstacks here I found it helpful.

MrPillowTalk

You have position bet them both and not some lousy third pot bet make it a proper bet.

Hand 1: Your bet is more likely to find a fold as a king is a likely holding for you, so if my flop bet is called I am probably done with the hand.

Hand 2: Villain is more likely to think you are at it and many good players call a bet here to see what you do on the turn so dont dissapoint and bet it again, obviously this depends on villain if he is a calling station give up if the turn brings no help.

FastMachine

1. Bet the flop, give it up if called.
2. I'd check here. Two villains means it's twice as likely that someone's hit something.

In general regarding continuation betting, you say you "feel like you have to keep betting with no hand".

Why not just check the flop? If the villain checks the turn to you again, bet the pot and he'll give it up 80% of the time. If you bet the pot on the turn he can only call with a good draw (so you can often win with A high on the river if he misses) or else he's usually caught top pair or has a decent pocket pair and you can give it up fairly cheaply. If the villain bets into you on the turn you use your judgment to either fold (most of the time) or else reraise him off his hand if you think he's weak. It's all depends on the situation (ie board, villain, table image), sometimes I will go with two continuation bets against a particular villain but that's the exception rather than the rule.

I'm not a big fan of trying to push people off hands, there's loads of money to be made by getting the best hand and betting it so I'll usually go with the check flop/evaluate turn if I miss - of course this means that you'll sometimes check the flop when you hit too which is fine.

JTheViper

no.1 I bet 6 - 6.5 90% of the time if villan is standard player. If he would check the best hand to me then maybe check and se the turn. But that kind of flop is good for you cos he'll only call if he has an ok king or a 3 which you will find out on the turn.

No 2 is a bit tricky. You raised preflop so you most likely have a good hand and that flop didn't help. Loose villan may just have called with muck to have position on you and hit some of that. I check. Against a loose player I dont think betting is the right option and betting the turn if it doesn't help either i wouldn't be crazy on. I check and muck if its bet to me!

ianmc38

Hand 1: I'll bet the flop only.
Hand 2: That's a good flop for AQ and i'll often fire 3 barrel bluffs to represent an overpair, but cards on the flop and turn are obviously important. I think many good players will check-raise when you bet there, thinking its an AK/AQ continuation bet.

Ste05

Hand 1: I'll make a half pot - 3/4 pot cont. bet about 80% of the time.

Hand 2: I'll make a half pot - 3/4 pot cont. bet about 50% of the time.

Obviously both of these depend on the Villain, how the table's been going, how active I've been lately, and the types of hands I've shown down in similar spots at the table while the Villain has been at the table, etc. etc.

I also have PAHUD showing me the % of times the Villain calls cont. bets, if it's a high percentage, I'll normally fire again on the turn.... (depending on what falls)

Hectorjelly

This is what I do. After ive been at a table for a while I sort all the players into two different categories

too tight
too loose

If the table has no loose players I leave - I also dont bluff the loose ones. So if I raise AQo and the flop is k3o im going to try and check it down. This is good becuse you often win unimproved, you get to see what muck the idiot is calling you down with and it looks like your playing pretty tight. Now if you raise 56s and the flop is AQJr then you should probably bet most of the time, as checking means giving up the pot.

Its important to realise, (esp if you raise a lot) that just raising preflop doesnt give you a right to the pot. Sometimes just give it up. This is also good becuase you cut down peoples implied odds for your preflop raises.

Ste05

Hectorjelly wrote:

if I raise AQo and the flop is k3o im going to try and check it down. This is good becuse you often win unimproved, you get to see what muck the idiot is calling you down with and it looks like your playing pretty tight.

Never thought of this, but I actually really like it, the reason I bet so often in these spots is to hopefully increase the chances of getting paid off by Kx and an under pair when I have the AK, AA, KK, KQ, etc. Although I think the increased chances of getting paid off by an under pair, is actually worth less then the information and table image. (Cos I'll normally get paid off here a large % of the time anyway, so I think I will reduce my cont. bet % down a bit here and try this a few more times per Villain for the info. and table image.

FastMachine

Ste05 wrote:

Never thought of this, but I actually really like it, the reason I bet so often in these spots is to hopefully increase the chances of getting paid off by Kx and an under pair when I have the AK, AA, KK, KQ, etc. Although I think the increased chances of getting paid off by an under pair, is actually worth less then the information and table image. (Cos I'll normally get paid off here a large % of the time anyway, so I think I will reduce my cont. bet % down a bit here and try this a few more times per Villain for the info. and table image.

I think playing aggressively with the intention of generating more action later on is kind of a myth. If a villain has a hand and he likes it he's going to be willing to play a pot, it doesn't really matter what table image you have. Bar you're extremely aggressive the amount of extra action you'll get by betting in these spots when you want it is negligible/non existant.
The only guys who this kind of action generating play works are very good very lag players and this is the toughest and swingiest way to play.

Hectorjelly wrote:

Its important to realise, (esp if you raise a lot) that just raising preflop doesnt give you a right to the pot. Sometimes just give it up. This is also good becuase you cut down peoples implied odds for your preflop raises.

Great point, one that hasn't been copped by most players. Most people think that when they've raised a pot they have to win it or at least make an effort to win it and will spew varying amounts of cash in their attempts to take it down. This used to be a major leak for me when I started out.

willis

Some very interesting points guys. I definitely have a leak as I have lost way too much bluffing, most players at 1/2 dont understand what your trying to represent and just play their own hands. The point about implied odds HJ is something ive never even given thought too but its definitely true...a player today kept calling my PFR as he knew id nearly always bet the flop so if he hit a big hand he knew he would get paid. I definitely need to start checking the flop more but again a lot depends on the opponent in question.

TacT

Have you tried checking when you miss occasionally and then checking when you hit big now and again. You'll get to more showdowns when you've missed and you're still good and you'll let your opponents do some bluffing and give yourself a chance to milk them some more when you have a monster. Keep em guessing and mix it up, they won't know what to do and will start checking down for fear you have a monster and are trapping.

Boie

I continuation bet maybe 70% of the times. If you cont. bet too often players can take advantage of that.

I think a continuation bet is good in your first hand and okey in the second one.

Oh and I shut down on the turn if I get called on the flop most of the times. That is if I'm totally empty and don't have a good read on the opponent.

ionapaul

Jesus, some great advice in this thread! I was just talking about this leak in my (complete beginner status) cash game - I almost feel compelled to fire off a bet on the turn when I've raised pre-flop and continuation bet on the missed flop. These sorts of turn and river bets, when I've completely missed and the opponent called the flop bet, are simply costing me money.