Shut up about the SSIA!!

connundrum

I will start by congratulating everyone who took up the option of the SSIA - congratulations.

But I have never been so fcuking sick of one thing in my life.. everyone is going on about it, every bit of advertising refers to it, all news reports run something to do with it.

Yes, great scheme. But what of us who weren't able to avail of it at the time. Now we've to put up with a full year of having it shoved in our face..

Bah.




Anyone got a lend of a fiver?

plenderj

connundrum wrote:

Anyone got a lend of a fiver?

Yup, and guess what? It only cost me €3

Magic Pips

hahahahaha only 3 yo yos!

FillSpectre

The high student rate here must really be peeved at this as they couldn't do it. The bit I love is that not just do we have the extra cash but the spare €255 a month too and next year my wife will have finished hers too.

There was guys in work that when it came out I said to them they will be kicking themselves if they don't do it. Guess who is kicking themselves?

The only reason you are sick is becasue you know of all the people listening to the ads you are one of the people who can't take them up.;)

connundrum

FillSpectre wrote:

The only reason you are sick is becasue you know of all the people listening to the ads you are one of the people who can't take them up.;)

Wasn't that what I said in the first place?

mox54

I cashed in my ssia because I needed the dough but I'm not piss$D at all and I agree, I'm fed up with SSIA media frenzy, the average pay out is about 13,000 yo yo's, hardly going to set the world on fire with that- most likely pay off debts to get clear to make room for more debts - we're going to Florida next year with kids with my wife's ssia, a good spend!:rolleyes:

FillSpectre

connundrum wrote:

Wasn't that what I said in the first place?

Yeap I was rubbing it in your face get ready for the year of it.:D

PDelux

The reason there is so much about the SSIA in newspapers,TV,radio etc. is because 1 in 4 people are supposed to have one. That audience is too high to ignore.

Personally, when I first saw articles in the newspaper on the SSIA, I thought, "oh great I have an SSIA, I better read this" but now it is annoying because it is all the same information over and over again. There is only so much you can talk about it.

r3nu4l

I have a maximum amount SSIA and I already know what I'm doing with it so I'm getting sick of it too.

kluivert

I wonder is there any chance that the government will do another scheme once this one has finished. I hope that they do.

It a great means to fuel an economy every five years. I was 17 at the time, student with no money, so fair play to those who where able to save the max. each month.

bravo

Yes guys, a great scheme, lets have some more please.
I'm a bit sick of all the fuss and pr as well. So how is evryone gonna spend their 20 odd grand..........only thing is the scheme only gave us about 4 grand of it...the rest was/is our own money.
So maybe the question should be how are we gonna spend our newly acquired four grand.

Dave!

I hate you all.

mikemac

All this talk of a guranteed 25% return

I made much more than than on rabobank shares
I even bought Elan at 3.20 and sold at 11.40. Could have held out for more

Is 25% realy that great?

PDelux

When you think about it, it could have a bad effect overall for the ordinary Joe because prices will increase on pretty much everything i reckon...

Scootay

They won't run another scheme. The purpose of the SSIA scheme was to slow down inflation... I mean to get people saving. The Minister for Finance has said that if the scheme worked they don't need another one as people have learned the value of saving and if it didn't work then there is no reason to think a new one would.

I have an SSIA and guess what? €4 of every €5 in it was mine anyway. It's not the lotto but the way the media and the banks are going on about this "windfall" you'd think it was. There may be some idiots who buy into their nonsense but I sure as hell don't.

homah_7ft

If I have to listen to another hammer or circular saw I'm going to go postal. It's like extension land round here this week. Small scale builders must be delighted with the SSIA money. Nice time to bump up the prices a bit.

Meh

micmclo wrote:

All this talk of a guranteed 25% return

I made much more than than on rabobank shares
I even bought Elan at 3.20 and sold at 11.40. Could have held out for more

Is 25% realy that great?

For a risk-free investment, yes 25% return is fantastic. Rabobank and Elan have a comparatively high degree of risk associated with them.

conor_mc

micmclo wrote:

All this talk of a guranteed 25% return

I made much more than than on rabobank shares
I even bought Elan at 3.20 and sold at 11.40. Could have held out for more

Is 25% realy that great?

Fair play to you for making a few quid on Elan, but as a financially-savvy person, you should know better than to belittle a guaranteed 25% return.

What of the poor buggers who bought Elan for €20 in Feb 2005, only to see their shares slump to €2.50 or so by May of that year... they lost over 85% of their money if they sold up.

I bet they'd have been perfectly happy with a 25% return!

jdivision

kluivert wrote:

I wonder is there any chance that the government will do another scheme once this one has finished. I hope that they do.

QUOTE]
Aren't they giving people money for putting it into a pension fund?

mikemac

Meh wrote:

For a risk-free investment, yes 25% return is fantastic. Rabobank and Elan have a comparatively high degree of risk associated with them.

Fair point! I'd never do it again.
Elan scared the life out of me many times

Sold out of everthing in Feburary before this short downturn over the last few weeks.

Fair play to anyone who subscribed. I didn't as I was only a student at the time.

I went to the Money Show in the RDS recently. It was very badly attended too. All the stands were asking me to part with my SSIA money.
I kind of felt like I was the only fool in Ireland not to have one.
I realy wish there was less press coverage

mox54

Shares are a disaster - I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft .........you done well with Elan, I was going to do the same but didn't bother in the end but as an overall investment they're not far off betting on the horses - experts will go on about how good they are etc etc but they hide behind statistics that show over a 20 year period they'll give a good return....lets face it over 20 years anything will give a good return.....

my only punt with shares is to buy very very cheap - pennies and hold onto to them in the hope the company get it right - other than that - leave well alone!:o

GreeBo

The message that the banks and government should be trying to get across is that, as has been pointed out here, its basically *your* money that *you* didnt spend for the last 5 years.
Dont stop saving now just becuase you are not getting a "free" 25% bonus.

road_high

This is 75% YOUR money- the govt 'gives' back a further 25% which no doubt we have all paid for ten times over in stealth and hidden taxes.

This 25% has certainly been a heavy price to pay for putting up with such an imcompetent government for so long imo.

SouperComputer

This is 75% YOUR money- the govt 'gives' back a further 25% which no doubt we have all paid for ten times over in stealth and hidden taxes.

Makes sense, spend it on goods and 21% goes into VAT

shoegirl

kluivert wrote:

I wonder is there any chance that the government will do another scheme once this one has finished. I hope that they do.

It a great means to fuel an economy every five years. I was 17 at the time, student with no money, so fair play to those who where able to save the max. each month.

From what I can see most of the people I know who have SSIAs are the lucky bastards who Daddy suibsidises ad lib and for whom Mummy never expected "keep" from at home. They are the same folks for whom Mumsy and Pater are either guaranteeing or contributing to their mortgage. No bloody wonder they could afford to save 254 a month. I was working in a 15k a year job at the time, with a net income of 1100 a month, of which 320 a month went on rent, 200 went on a car loan, 100 on insurance, so precious little to save away thanks very much Bertie.

The constant talk is excruciating because so many people have made money so easily. I know a lot of people who really needed help who ended up cashing in their SSIAs because they couldn't afford it. Why give away so much money to those who don't need it when there are clearly many who do?

KerranJast

Almost 2/3rds of SSIA account holders won't be getting their cash until April 2007 due to the last minute rush to signup for what's basically Money for Nothing (where are my free chicks though? ) This will drag on and on and on and on... You get the point.

Lambsbread

shoegirl wrote:

From what I can see most of the people I know who have SSIAs are the lucky bastards who Daddy suibsidises ad lib and for whom Mummy never expected "keep" from at home. They are the same folks for whom Mumsy and Pater are either guaranteeing or contributing to their mortgage. No bloody wonder they could afford to save 254 a month. I was working in a 15k a year job at the time, with a net income of 1100 a month, of which 320 a month went on rent, 200 went on a car loan, 100 on insurance, so precious little to save away thanks very much Bertie.

The constant talk is excruciating because so many people have made money so easily. I know a lot of people who really needed help who ended up cashing in their SSIAs because they couldn't afford it. Why give away so much money to those who don't need it when there are clearly many who do?

I think the SSIA scheme was the greatest transfer of wealth the rich ever. The rich, who could afford, it made easy money. The poor, who couldn't, gained nothing from the scheme. Time and time again this government has frivously spent money on schemes like this or bertie's makeup when our national infrastructure is a joke. The past 10 years of economic growth have given us an outstanding chance to really develop world class infrastructure, the envy of therest of the world, but it has been wasted. The povery gap has increased over this period with the rich cleaning up (or construction companies). Sorry for the rant but i'm really getting p!ssed off with this sort of thing.

spurious

'To encourage saving' ... my barney.
If you look at the breakdown of 'savers' a large majority of them are on the highest contribution. These people were in a position to save anyway. It was just the lure of the high return got them off their bums to do it.

The people who are on such a tight budget that committing to save even 20 euro was too much of a stretch - the ones that needed to start saving, are now the ones who will be paying the fat cat 'bonus' through their tax.

The only fair way an SSIA scheme should have run was limited to people below a certain income level, otherwise it's just robbing from the poor to feed the rich.

TempestSabre

Its true. It was extremely biased to those with money to spare.

miju

haven't got an SSIA myself (couldnt afford it at the time) my girlfriend could barely afford hers but got one anyway, since my financial situations been better i've been putting the max into hers so i kinda got in by the back door so to speak

how and ever, i agree with the ones above, the SSIA is a terrible waster of money that just gives to the rich and doesnt help the ones on the breadline, it's not really suprising though seeing as how it's fianna failure in charge

shoegirl

micmclo wrote:

All this talk of a guranteed 25% return

I made much more than than on rabobank shares
I even bought Elan at 3.20 and sold at 11.40. Could have held out for more

Is 25% realy that great?

Its great if its guaranteed and you know nothing at all about money or investing.

Have to agree with you though. Made 100% profit on Dell shares I bought at the end of 2001 and sold in 2004. And again several times on Schlumberger shares - made about 30-35% profit on these a few times and could have made even more. Equities are still the investment of choice if you are willing to really study the industries involved and take a risk.

GenericName

Lambsbread wrote:

The poor, who couldn't, gained nothing from the scheme.

- The purpose of the scheme was to quell inflation caused by consumer spending. People who can't afford €20 a month were not the target of the scheme anyway. Well as I understand it?
But did it have a major effect on inflation? Probably not. The contribution didn't stop me buying the big screen TV or branded clothing. And I was a student! What about people earning real money?! Did teach me some good saving habits though.

Lambsbread wrote:

Time and time again this government has frivously spent money on schemes like this or bertie's makeup when our national infrastructure is a joke. The past 10 years of economic growth have given us an outstanding chance to really develop world class infrastructure, the envy of therest of the world, but it has been wasted. The povery gap has increased over this period with the rich cleaning up (or construction companies).

- Couldn't agree more with that sentiment!

Lambsbread

I suppose it was a good scheme to get people to start saving. We are going through a great economic boom, but we could easily go through a barren spell again. You have to wonder if people start to loose their jobs do they have any savings to tide them over a rough patch?

There are plenty of stories around of people struggling with mortgage payments etc etc and you have to wonder what effect six months unemployed would have on these type of people.

It is important for all people to have a fallback should tough times occur. Hopefully one benefit of the SSIA scheme is that it encourages people to save. But i still feel the ones who benefitted the most from the scheme were the ones who needed it the least.

The main problem the governement/Central Bank now face is that monetary policy is controlled by the ECB, so in order to control inflation schemes like this have to be developed rather than increasing interest rates, whcih would probably be of more benefit.

ronbyrne2005

ssia's were an ok return and encouraged saving etc but they werent as good as the average joe thinks. for a start inflation is around 4% now and has beend 3-5% for5 years of ssia so your first contribution in 2001 say is now worth 15% less due to inflation but you get your return plus the banks interest minus the exit tax. if you had of invested the ssia money into a property or if you hadnt enough then a property fund you would have made far more with little risk. Many people dont realise that pension contributions give you far more then ssia's and you can do this all through your working life,when you invest in your pension you get nearly one euro for every one euro you put in if you are on higher rate of tax,sure you cant touch it untill you retire but its yours and it can be invested in shares or lower risk investments.taking account of inflation and alternative investments it wasnt great.
also the money the government contributed isnt the governements its yours! you paid it in tax etc and its not going to hospitals or 3rd world development where many would say it should instead its going to people who generally can afford to save/invest allready to spend more on consumption so they can pay even more tax to the government in taxes on their purchases further fueling inflation and the slow demise of this economy.
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=DAVID%20McWilliams-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=14756-qqqx=1.asp

Idleater

TempestSabre wrote:

It was extremely biased to those with money to spare.

shoegirl wrote:

From what I can see most of the people I know who have SSIAs are the lucky bastards who Daddy suibsidises ad lib and for whom Mummy never expected "keep" from at home. They are the same folks for whom Mumsy and Pater are either guaranteeing or contributing to their mortgage. No bloody wonder they could afford to save 254 a month. I was working in a 15k a year job at the time...

I disagree with this sentiment. The minimum contribution to set up an SSIA was £12.50 or thereabouts which is not an unreasonable expense.

One is also permitted to make changes to the amounts lodged (as long as you did at least the minimum) over the 5 year term so when you could afford to put in more you could choose to do that.

L.

r3nu4l

I agree with neried. Come on, €12.50 per month is roughly €3.12 per week!! There are very few people who cannot affor that amount of money.

€3.12 is less than the cost of one pint - one pint less per week = minimum contribution per month + better health and fewer calories!

Smokers only needed to smoke perhaps three less fags a day to save that much cash in the week.

Eat a bag of crisps or choccie bar every day for lunch? If you didn't or even cut back a little you could easily afford the SSIA.

That said, I do know a family that are already wealthy who opened full amount accounts for themselves and their kids and stand to have about €100,000 saved at about the end of it i.e. about €16,000 form the Government so in those cases the rich are getting richer.

However, 95% of people in Ireland could easily afford an SSIA, some chose not to!

GreeBo

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

if you had of invested the ssia money into a property or if you hadnt enough then a property fund you would have made far more with little risk.

True, but only because our property market is "confused...5 years ago it wasnt as obvious as it is looking back now...

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Many people dont realise that pension contributions give you far more then ssia's and you can do this all through your working life

So true and yet most people dont seem to think about a pension until they are 30, thats the best 10 years of investment gone.
You should be pumping as much as you can into your pension (up to your tax free point) all your life.
Who wants the keep working at 60?:cool:

conor_mc

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

if you had of invested the ssia money into a property or if you hadnt enough then a property fund you would have made far more with little risk.

Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?

If you had invested this money in a property, what if the market had crashed 30% on a €150k house? Your 20k SSIA money would be obliterated along with a hefty wedge of 25k negative equity, leaving you with an asset worth 105k.

To make such sweeping statements as there being "little risk" in property and/or equities is quite simply madness and very irresponsible.

There was zero risk in investing in the SSIA - the only competitor in this regard is a deposit account where interest will barely keep up with inflation in a good account. That's why the SSIA was such a good deal.

Comparing it to property/funds is like comparing apples and oranges. Property may well have trounced the SSIA in terms of growth, but you sure as hell didn't know that would be the case 5 years ago.... none of us did.

ronbyrne2005

conor_mc wrote:

Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?

If you had invested this money in a property, what if the market had crashed 30% on a €150k house? Your 20k SSIA money would be obliterated along with a hefty wedge of 25k negative equity, leaving you with an asset worth 105k.

To make such sweeping statements as there being "little risk" in property and/or equities is quite simply madness and very irresponsible.

There was zero risk in investing in the SSIA - the only competitor in this regard is a deposit account where interest will barely keep up with inflation in a good account. That's why the SSIA was such a good deal.

Comparing it to property/funds is like comparing apples and oranges. Property may well have trounced the SSIA in terms of growth, but you sure as hell didn't know that would be the case 5 years ago.... none of us did.

But majority of people in ireland beleive that property is a one way bet so if an individual beleived property was a winner they could have invested in a property fund where you only lose what you put in .also they could have put their monthly savings in a tax efficient pension if they intended to keep saving after 5 years as many said they did.those that just intended to spend their ssia now face much higher prices and the cost of delayed consumption,im not upset at all about not investing in an ssia.

DublinWriter

r3nu4l wrote:

I have a maximum amount SSIA and I already know what I'm doing with it so I'm getting sick of it too.

I've the max amount too, but I'm feeling all tingly and glowey the prospect of getting a nice little cheque for €18,000 in 10 months time.

Mmmmmmmmm.......money.

DublinWriter

conor_mc wrote:

If you had invested this money in a property, what if the market had crashed 30% on a €150k house? Your 20k SSIA money would be obliterated along with a hefty wedge of 25k negative equity, leaving you with an asset worth 105k.

OMG...and it will stay only worth 105K until time immemorial, won't it?

Property crashes = short term blips. Look at the UK's example.

conor_mc

DublinWriter wrote:

OMG...and it will stay only worth 105K until time immemorial, won't it?

Property crashes = short term blips. Look at the UK's example.

And what about Japan's 15-year "blip"?

That's not the point anyway. You're trying to compare the SSIA to property in terms of risk and now timeframe, and its like comparing apples and oranges.

SSIA = defined timeframe, guaranteed return (for deposit a/c's at least).

Property = moderate to high risk, indefinite timeframe, geared investment through mortgage therefore exposure to massive losses as well as huge gains relative to the amount invested, huge transactions costs in stamp duty and legal fees etc.

I'm not saying that investing in property wasn't a better bet in 2000, as hindsight proves it was. But it was riskier, and nobody could have known that the property boom would last at least the next 5 years.

conor_mc

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

But majority of people in ireland beleive that property is a one way bet so if an individual beleived property was a winner they could have invested in a property fund where you only lose what you put in .also they could have put their monthly savings in a tax efficient pension if they intended to keep saving after 5 years as many said they did.those that just intended to spend their ssia now face much higher prices and the cost of delayed consumption,im not upset at all about not investing in an ssia.

Agree about pensions, and take your point about a property fund as opposed to an individual property.

Still, the risk is greater - the potential for little or no gain is there too (see Germany, Japan in recent years).

Galway_guy_33

Question for you all...

Lets say for the first two years you paid in 130 euro into your SSIA. Then for the last three years you paid in the max amount (254 i think it is right?) Can you make a lump sum payment of lets say 2976 euro to bring the account up to the max???

I think i know the answer to this already... NO RIGHT???

r3nu4l

conor_mc wrote:

But it was riskier, and nobody could have known that the property boom would last at least the next 5 years.

This is true. It seems that every year for the past eight or nine years the ESRI have been warning of impending negative equity and property price correction.

Problem is that it will end up like the boy who cried wolf.
The huge property crash in the UK during the 1980s caused hundreds of thousands to lose their homes because they couldn't keep up with their mortgage repayments caused by massive inflation. Even today in the UK the banks are far more cautious than Irish banks when it comes to giving out mortgages. loans are a different matter but they are careful about mortgages. I know because I've asked banks in both countries about mortgages and in Ireland myself and the gf can get approximately €100,000 more than in the UK!

A crash could yet happen in Ireland but will anyone listen when the ESRI and Central banks give the true warning?

conor_mc

Galway_guy_33 wrote:

Question for you all...

Lets say for the first two years you paid in 130 euro into your SSIA. Then for the last three years you paid in the max amount (254 i think it is right?) Can you make a lump sum payment of lets say 2976 euro to bring the account up to the max???

I think i know the answer to this already... NO RIGHT???

Correct - limited to €254 per month.