What defines a future classic

Carb

Although I won't be doing it today or tomorrow, I would like at some stage to buy a second car for the odd weekends etc. I was wondering how to you determine what will be a future classic. Obviously the car needs desireability, and a certain amount of rarity, but as I'd be more interested in buying a late 80's early 90's model, rarity is a bit more difficult to guage. Something a long the lines of Mercedes Cosworth, BMW M series, basically high power over practicality. What cars do the folks here think will be future classics.

Also, one further question, did BMW ever make a high performance car other than the M versions. 6/7 years ago, a guy near home had a LHD BMW. It didn't have an M badge, but I can't remember if the car was debadged. The one thing I do remeber was the car had possibly the widest back wheels I've ever seen on a car and there was a roar from the engine that certainly turned heads. Then again it may have been just a modified M3. I would guess from the styling it was from around the early nineties. Any guesses?

ds20prefecture

For me, a classic car is one which changed the shape of the motoring landscape in some way, or was especially beautiful or had some ground-breaking innovation. Or even just a very different approach to the norm.

That pretty much excludes any BMW since 1980, except maybe the Z1 and most Mercs since the '60s SL.

The first Alfa 156 is, IMO, a future classic because there has never been a prettier 3 box saloon.

The Mazda RX8 is a future classic because of it's deliberately different approach to what a sports coupe is or how it should be powered.

The Mazda MX5 is a classic already, in that it absolutely recreated and captured the market for 2 seat convertible sports cars.

The Honda Insight will probably be a classic, for its many many innovations. By contrast the Prius will prove to be a triumph of marketing over engineering, and fade as quickly as faux-retro tragedies such as the VW Beetle.

The Lancia Delta Integrale and Audi Quattro are both unquestionably classics, for their technical brilliance, being far ahead of their time and defining generations of clones. I suspect some of the clones may become classics but only after a cruel hiatus as cheap bangers that will be customised beyond description. e.g. Subaru Impreza and Mitsubishi evo.

Risky bets will be more obscure but clever niche cars like the Audi A2, Renault Avantime, and Citroen C6.

Avoid retro cars, no matter how tempting. The classics we adore today do not hark back to their predecessors, instead they were bold enough to become history.

mike65

The Merc Cossie is very practical everyday transport thats its beauty.

Mike.

alastair

ds20prefecture wrote:

Avoid retro cars, no matter how tempting. The classics we adore today do not hark back to their predecessors, instead they were bold enough to become history.

Unless you want a car with a bit of flair, and aren't too concerned about it's future value. I think there's a bit of snobbery about the japanese retro cars in classic car circles.

I'd dispute that retro cars can't become classics btw. I'd consider various 60's/70's Wolsleys and Vanden Plas' as essentially 'retro' cars of their day, and they seem to have slipped into the 'classic' category without too much fuss. Are Morgans considered 'retro' yet?

I'd love a Nissan Figaro as a regular runabout - for all the reasons I'd dismiss a vanilla Micra, except that they're all automatics. I'm seriously considering a Nissan Pao though. My attitude is that, except for those outright pastiche models (the weird micra/jag crossbreed, and the VW combivan subaru), the retro cars are valid enough in their own right.

ds20prefecture

alastair wrote:

I'd love a Nissan Figaro as a regular runabout - for all the reasons I'd dismiss a vanilla Micra, except that they're all automatics. I'm seriously considering a Nissan Pao though. My attitude is that, except for those outright pastiche models (the weird micra/jag crossbreed, and the VW combivan subaru), the retro cars are valid enough in their own right.

Absolutely - I'm not saying avoid them completely, just avoid them if you're looking for future classics. The Figaro is a great wee car. But if I were to bet on the Figaro or the Suzuki Cappucino becoming future classics, I'd put my money on the Suzuki. Ditto the Honda beat.

IMO, most of the old day-to-day british cars are just old cars. They are (generally) very crude, heavy, underpowered, uncomfortable and lacking in design flair. There are exceptions, of coure. The Jaguar Mk II and the Rover P5b coupe, for example.

But what did Wolseley provide that no-one else did? In way did they innovate, or move the game on? They may be regarded by some as classics, but so is the Austin Allegro, the Morris Marina and the Princess.

To try to illustrate my point:
The BMW E21 3 series effectively created the compact sports saloon market (although it arguably owes a lot to the Triumph Dolomite sprint). It was well styled, unusual, fun, and relatively cheap in its day. It showed that a regular day-to-day practical car could be fun, fast and have a level of sophistication that was until then the preserve of much more expensive cars. In my eyes it is a classic.

The BMW E30, E36 and E46 just took that idea and refined it. They evolved it, but it was evolution rather than revolution. The cars are undeniably better, and had/have a loyal following in their day. But their success is their downfall, with ubiquity and a lack of innovation working against them becoming classics. The M variants will no doubt prove me wrong, but few will escape their inevitable doldrums period between depreciating cheap fast car and appreciating classic icon. Try to find an unmodified E36 M3, to see what I mean. They're there, but they're rare.

Silvera

One car that's been mooted in car mags as a future classic (and I saw one advertised in the Buy & Sell for €250) .........


The Volvo 480ES.

I'd buy it if I had somewhere to store it!:(