Sony introduced real-time 3D games??

Vyse

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I really don't think this was the case.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140731

I remember playing F-18 interceptor on my Amiga back in '89 and this was in 3D.

exactiv

yeah. I'd wonder was it a mis-translation from the german interview.

Vyse

That could be it alright. Would probably agree that they did (help) introduce 3D gaming to the mainstream.

exactiv

PC's had 3d games before the PS2. Maybe he means 3d games on a console.

exactiv

Original and best. 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom

KdjaCL

Star Fox (Japanese: スターフォックス, sutāfokkusu; known as Starwing in Europe due to trademark issues; a game of the same name had been released by Ariolasoft on the C64, Amstrad and Spectrum) was the first game in the Star Fox series of video games. It was released in the spring of 1993 for the Super NES.

The game cartridge was the first to include the Super FX chip, an early 3D accelerator.

"When we brought the PlayStation to the market in 1994, we introduced real time 3-D graphics for the first time," he noted. "When Nintendo launched its N64 in 1996 it also had 3D graphics, did we say, "Nintendo stole our idea!"? Obviously not. Such innovations become possible because of a combination of technology, cost and manufacture capacities."

Im no maths genius but..............



kdjac

exactiv

at the end of the day it's just a load of marketing bull**** at an interview.

BLITZ_Molloy

exactiv wrote:

Original and best. 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom

Original and best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss

exactiv

I stand corrected

BlitzKrieg

Also the Saturn was released before the Playstation and though they were not the greatest i am pretty sure it had real time 3d graphics as well.

Giblet

They stole from starfox

Maximilian

Original and..ok not the best.

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7059

MisterAnarchy

"When we brought the PlayStation to the market in 1994, we introduced real time 3-D graphics for the first time," he noted. "When Nintendo launched its N64 in 1996 it also had 3D graphics, did we say, "Nintendo stole our idea!"? Obviously not. Such innovations become possible because of a combination of technology, cost and manufacture capacities."

Ha ha good old Sony lying thieves.:D
History shows that most of the technology in the PS1 was designed by Nintendo as they were collaborators in the Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment up until 1992.

Retr0gamer

The PS1 actually had the entire SNES chipset on it reduced to 1 chip

The Saturn was indeed released before the PS1 and the 2 launch games Panzer Dragoon and Virtua fighter were both real time 3D. The 3DO, Jaguar and CD32 also had real time 3D games. Hell there are games on the MD SNES and PC from the early 90's that use real time 3D polygon engines without having to use a separate chip. Vector graphics games could be regarded as real time 3D. Remmeber Star Wars arcade from the early 80's.

po0k

Tempest.
Battlezone.

They *are* real-time 3D games. They had a depth of field.
I hate morketing types. Silly Sony bunny-wabbits. Their day is ending, evening is upon them.

Zombrex

I could kinda understand how they could claim they introduced 3D graphics to the main stream console market, but then everyone else was doing that two, Sony were just the first to have a very successful implimentation of it (while the Saturn also had 3D abilities, but they lagged behind the PSX, and well wasn't that successful).

It was clear in 1993 that 3D graphics were the future, everyone was developing 3D graphics. There had been proper 3D on the PC and home computers (Amiga, Atari ST etc) for years.

The idea that Nintendo some how copied something unique that Sony were doing is ridiculous, and kinda shows this person knows nothing about the history of computer games, even from the PlayStation era.

All I can say is *groan*

steviec

I think his point was that was an equivalent statement to saying they stole Nintendo's motion sensing idea. Motion sensing has been around for ages, I have a Microsoft controller right here that does it, but because Nintendo has it as standard on their console first it becomes a Nintendo idea that everyone else is stealing. Sony patented motion sensing pads in 1999 ( http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0 ) so it's hardly a new idea, I've heard somewhere that accelerometers are only recently getting cheap/accurate enough to be useful, just like processors were only becoming powerful enough to do 3d graphics when the PS1/Saturn came out. The Sony guy could just as easily have said Nintendo stole our optical discs or nintendo stole our second analog stick or nintendo are stealing our dvd playback with the Wii, the point being that most good ideas get implemented by everyone and it doesn't matter in the long run who did it first, only who did it best.

And for the record I always thought the Geoff Crammond's Stunt Racer for PC was the first ever 3D Polygonal game, I could be completely wrong with that though *shrug* it's just some fact I've always had in my head from somewhere.

LookingFor

Yeah, I think he's just equating the move to motion sensing as being as necessary and as normal as the move to 3D - everyone's gonna do it sooner or later, just like everyone did with 3D, but people didn't accuse others of copying one another.

Retr0gamer

The move to more advanced real time 3D games was an obvious move in the 32-bit era. Sony's motion sensing pad smacks of a desperate attempt not to be left behind.

LookingFor

Retr0gamer wrote:

The move to more advanced real time 3D games was an obvious move in the 32-bit era. Sony's motion sensing pad smacks of a desperate attempt not to be left behind.

I think it's precisely their argument that motion sensing is an obvious next step.

Harrison has said before that Nintendo may have put it on the agenda such that Sony had to incorporate it, so he did recognise that Nintendo led the way there. But if they felt they subsequently needed to do it too, should they have not, just so it didn't look like they were copying them? Or just plodded ahead with what they felt would be an inadequate controller?

I would say also, that in terms of technology, it's not a matter of copying the technology itself. None of this technology is new at all, only its application as standard in these game consoles. It's a matter of 'copying' the strategy of making it standard, if anything. Sony spoke about researching gyroscopes and accelerometers years ago, the question was when it would be applied, if ever. Nintendo has prompted them to do that now, I don't think they'd deny that.

BlitzKrieg

Yeah, I think he's just equating the move to motion sensing as being as necessary and as normal as the move to 3D

But its not exactly like that, everyone implementing online features is as normal as the move to 3D, implementing hard drives is as normal as the move to 3D. But the motion sensing up until now can be seen as a fringe feature, like light guns and steering wheel controllers, yes they were developed but the notion of pushing it as the central element of a new console is both highly risky and unexpected, Nintendo made clear last year they wanted to push in a completely different direction to what was the logical next generation step (better graphics, online gameplay fully implemented).

If i remember correctly since the PS2 and Dreamcast were released it was pushed by most *experts* that the next big jump for consoles is online play being perfected to the same standard as PC multiplayer, no one saw motion controllers as the next step up in the same way as everyone saw 3D graphics with the PSX generation.

LookingFor

BlitzKrieg wrote:

But its not exactly like that, everyone implementing online features is as normal as the move to 3D, implementing hard drives is as normal as the move to 3D. But the motion sensing up until now can be seen as a fringe feature, like light guns and steering wheel controllers, yes they were developed but the notion of pushing it as the central element of a new console is both highly risky and unexpected, Nintendo made clear last year they wanted to push in a completely different direction to what was the logical next generation step (better graphics, online gameplay fully implemented).

If i remember correctly since the PS2 and Dreamcast were released it was pushed by most *experts* that the next big jump for consoles is online play being perfected to the same standard as PC multiplayer, no one saw motion controllers as the next step up in the same way as everyone saw 3D graphics with the PSX generation.

See my reply above, but also, I don't know if Sony would agree that no one was looking at motion sensing with the PS2. They themselves were experimenting with that in the market with eyetoy.

I will say that I think with the next-next-gen systems, they'll all have this kind of functionality to one degree or another - in that sense it is an inevitability.

(Also, I don't think Sony is defining PS3 by this controller in the way Nintendo is with Wii's - it's just another feature for them).

We could debate this ad nauseum, but really, does it matter? People integrate and adopt the ideas of others all the time. If it makes for a better product than it otherwise would be, then more power to them. The type of pride and arrogance that sees companies remain unresponsive and unreactive to developments around them is the type of thing that saw Nintendo get into trouble with cartridges etc.

Retr0gamer

I think eyetoy was a huge shock to Nintendo. It was a very successful peripheral that you would normally expect from Nintendo not Sony.

Anyway another thing that really gets on my wick. Sony have been 'borrowing' ideas for it's controllers from their major competitors for years (rumble and analogue from Nintendo, pressure sensitive buttons from Sega). Why can't they add four controller ports, make a better game pad design and give use a decent usable d-pad! It says in that article that the PS pad is the industry standard. Ballox! It's just that most people have them with their PS2. It was always an awful controller. (Sorry for the rant but had some trouble in Neo Contra last night due to the bad pad design )

Balfa

Ah sure who cares what anyone says. That english Nintendo fella, Yarnton, said that Mario 64 was the first 3D game ever. I'm sure he meant the first 3D platform game or something (which I think I've heard before about Mario 64, even though that's probably not true either), but these spokespeople are so brainwashed they'll say anything and convince at least themselves that it's true.

And yes, tempest and battlezone and star wars and elite and all that goodness is definitely 3D.

And even then, the PC had millions of games in the style of what most people would consider 3D long before consoles.

steviec

The PC had everything first, I had a motion sensing sidewinder years ago, there were webcam-games out years ago, people were playing online years ago, people had analog joysticks while consoles had a d-pad and two buttons.

It's only when consoles do it that these things start to matter though. Take the Sidewinder Freestyle Pro, Microsoft's motion sensing joypad. The hardware certainly had its downsides, the worst d-pad ever designed and a bulky shape being foremost among them. But, on the game it came with, Motocross Madness, it worked exceptionally well. The problem is nobody else made PC games with the joypad in mind, and no peripheral will ever gain momentum against the mouse and keyboard standard.

As a standard console feature however, suddenly every game developer in the world will be looking at how to use the feature. And it's on consoles that these things flourish. Once developers start using it, I'd be surprised if MS don't come out with a motion sensing pad for the 360 too.

CiDeRmAn

Just read the above post and certainly the Sidewinder 3d Pro I got with my 200mhz PC way back in the day was the best controller I have yet to use, really good, loved to play Mechwarrior 3 on it, twisting the torso of the mech with the twisting of the stick, very sweet.
As for the eye toy, ahead of its time, but my living room was never bright enough to play with it, the kids loved washing windows, with their feet!
As for the 3D real time gaming, I guess Star Wars in the arcade along with Battlezone but true mastery of the art had to wait for two games, Tomb Raider on the Saturn and Mario 64, cetainly the latter stands up as pure genius, Tick Tock Clock? Wet Dry World, amazing use of the 3rd dimension as a play space, and seeing as they were breaking new ground, a giant leap compared to the length of time the 2D world took to reach that level of sophistication.

The first proper effort at a 3D world would have been Mercenary on the C64 and Speccy together with Elite, integrating vector 3D with a proper story line, Driller on the Speccy was mighty impressive too given the hardware limitations.