playing against LAGS

Gholimoli

I made a post about a particular Tribeca 3/6 player last week.(tymuppet).
I was wondering both what is the best way of playing against him and whether or not his style was profitable.
Since then I have seen a good few other players with the similar style which has made me think more about defending/playing against this style.
Basically the style is super aggro/open raising a lot of pots with any hand in position or not and then betting big post flop with trying to get your opponent of the hand or when you hit value betting.
Now this kind of player will call your raise pre flop with any two cards for any amount. there are hoping to either take it away from you on the flop with big bluffs or if they hit you will never put them on that hand and they will get paid.ive seen them call a 100 reraise with 52 out of position and then hit 52 on the flop and stack some one.
So here is my method of playing againt them but I have a few question as well and I was wondering if ppl have other better ways:

1.in position raise much bigger than normal with big pairs QQ+ ,because they will call it .post flop I would normally more than half pot it depending on the texture ?is this good or bad.

2.in position should I widen my range of playing against them when they open/raise or shall I narrow my range?


3.out of position shall I reraise at all with out a made hand like AKor should just call and try to keep the pot as small as possible? What about with 99,TT,JJ.

4. in position how to proceed with TPTK and the marginal hands post flop?
For example I raise from button to 3bb with AT ,he call from BB .flop calls T high and no real draws?how to proceed in terms of betting?
Pot,half pot?

Anything else that is relevant would be appreciated.

pok3rplaya

Make a hand and let them do the betting.

Poker & Pints

Gholimoli wrote:

1.in position raise much bigger than normal with big pairs QQ+ ,because they will call it .post flop I would normally more than half pot it depending on the texture ?is this good or bad.

Would you not slow play in this spot and hope they raise preflop out of position and you come over the top Hard? If they open/raise preflop you come over the top even harder. If they don't raise then you outplay them postflop.

2.in position should I widen my range of playing against them when they open/raise or shall I narrow my range?
I personally think you would mix it up! Do both!

3.out of position shall I reraise at all with out a made hand like AKor should just call and try to keep the pot as small as possible? What about with 99,TT,JJ. I would say do NOT reraise at all, just call. Hopefully you hit a set and they hit 2pr.

4. in position how to proceed with TPTK and the marginal hands post flop?
For example I raise from button to 3bb with AT ,he call from BB .flop calls T high and no real draws?how to proceed in terms of betting?
Pot,half pot? Pound it hard! Overbet. Would be my preferred method.

Anything else that is relevant would be appreciated.

IMO

AmarilloFats

Against bad LAGS, standard play works fine.
Against good LAGS,----

• Get good table position against them. Simple but it really works.
• Only call if you are trapping. Don't call hoping to flop a big hand, unless stack sizes dictate.
• Check raise them with your maginal hands
• I have heard people advocate check calling with strong made hands.
• Really have to value bet river against them.

How does this sound?? They are great to play against. The vast majority are losing players.

MrPillowTalk

He plays 10/20 from time to time and gets killed.

Dont change the ammount you raise pre with big pairs as this will tell them you have a big hand just be prepared to make big calls on marginal flops against them.

AK against a Lag out of position I vary my play depending on how good they are, how deep are the stacks and how big there raise is. If say we both have 2k and its raised by a lag who simply cannot stop betting and is a bit of a calling station if his raise was standard say to 80 then oop I will just call try and flop top pair and check raise him big (I know everyone hates the check raise on here but meh).
If with the same Lag same stacks he reraises me ie I come in for 80 ep he makes it 200+ then we are playing a big pot cos Im going to make it 700 to play (I dont like playing for stacks with AK here but it is a better play than calling and missing)
If I am playing a good Lag same stacks oop ie Im in the blinds and he comes in for a raise then its very game dependant on wheither I raise or flat call the most important thing in this hand is not how he has been playing but how I have been playing, if I have raised him a good bit then I prob call and try and flop a hand which I will lead with hoping to be raised as he wont put me on AK for flat calling pre, if I have been tight enough then I would probably ask a question and raise him.

In general against lags I dont want to be playing a big pot oop before seeing a flop.

ChipLdr

Yeah i've been having this problem with playin LAG players oop.

I'm reraisng with AK Aq AJ At cuz their super loose and raising with any two cards so i feel i should make it expensive but alas i see its probably better calling and hitting.

Another problem i have is a follow up bet. After reraisng i like to play aggressive on the flop after i've missed to make it seem i've a big PP but these type of guys are calling pot sized bets with bottom pair.

Should i just check fold to a bet on the flop?

lazlo

I know this player very well-he kills smaller limits. He will, in time, have the game to beat the bigger limit games too. He has a close relative that is one of the best online cash players out there, so he'll learn in time. He may seem reckless but he is very dangerous and he has registered a lot of profit for the year.

fuzzbox

Get position on the lag, its pretty simple really :-).

Playing OOP Vs a good lag is not fun.

Samba

I cannot comment on his profit on cash. I feel he is too tilt prone, i've played this villain alot HU on tribeca, on the 1v1 tables he is not a winning player, he gets spanked too often for me to believe he consistently wins.

Cash play may be another story.

I agree with Pillow here, I would tend to have a more passive approach OOP with hands such as AK and small pairs. In Position, I would often re-raise PF and take play away from such villains, it's the only way to put a stop to them running a muck on the tables, you don't need a hand to do it, once that PF re-raise is made, such players will often be pacified post flop unless they connect hard.

TacT

it's already been said but I'm going to re-itterate, get position or get out of dodge. Get big hands, pre or postflop and get paid. I would certainly not reraise them OOP with any two and be careful with Ax type hands and small-med pp's. If you insist on playing OOP then slow play him with big hands and go into uber rock mode.

AmarilloFats

fuzzbox wrote:

Get position on the lag, its pretty simple really :-).

Playing OOP Vs a good lag is not fun.

There are lags 30/15 and lags 60/30.!!!
Against at the far end of scale I think, even OOP, you should be reraising them with a wide range..
Play lag at lower limits for a while, decide what you would HATE your opp to do in certain situ's....

calling/hoping to connect is playing into their hands.

Gholimoli

folks this post was made ages ago and i donno how it resurfaced,i have since made alot of money from the villain in question and have developed a rather nice LAg strategy my self in 1/2.(mostly out of bordem:D )

robinlacey

MrPillowTalk wrote:

He plays 10/20 from time to time and gets killed.

Dont change the ammount you raise pre with big pairs as this will tell them you have a big hand just be prepared to make big calls on marginal flops against them.

AK against a Lag out of position I vary my play depending on how good they are, how deep are the stacks and how big there raise is. If say we both have 2k and its raised by a lag who simply cannot stop betting and is a bit of a calling station if his raise was standard say to 80 then oop I will just call try and flop top pair and check raise him big (I know everyone hates the check raise on here but meh)..

i don't get this at all
if he is a real lag who is constantly raising,etc,postflop,then checkraising with top pair top kicker is just letting him away too easily-why not bet out and let him make his usual raise (presuming 100 bb or less starting stacks)

robinlacey

by the way the particular lag in question is a 15 year old boy,which explains a lot about his style of play,and his father is sealey,which explains why he sometimes seems to be doing something right,and others time he is amazingly bad..

robinlacey

(not to suggest that sealey is sometimes bad,just that a 15 year old obviously won't be able to emulate his style of play)

MrPillowTalk

I play ak differently to most people.

I sometimes bet out and reraise and sometimes cr. I dont like only betting out as you become far too predictable and give good implied odds to opponents to flat call.

robinlacey

i'm not suggesting always bet/calling,or bet/pushing with AK at all,quite the opposite in general,i'm just saying that against the sort of crazy lag who's always trying to raise you off your hand i think check raising lets him off too easy...
the mistake that players like tymuppet make is raising too much,you should be trrying to induce this mistake and take advantage of it rather than play in a way that prevents him from making a mistake that he wants to make!

MrPillowTalk

What your saying is right, my advise posted originally was based on how I personally play laggy players (not necessarilly crazy lags) and the strategy makes the most of my own image which would be fairly lag as well.

I thought that he played Conors account mostly Im surprised that he is tymuppet.

robinlacey

MrPillowTalk wrote:

What your saying is right, my advise posted originally was based on how I personally play laggy players (not necessarilly crazy lags) and the strategy makes the most of my own image which would be fairly lag as well.

I thought that he played Conors account mostly Im surprised that he is tymuppet.

fair enough,although i still think checkraising in any situation with tptk is counterproductive,but we'll agree to disagree
and yeah,tymuppets profile used to say who he was,presumably till his dad told him not to be boasting about being 14 when he obviously shouldn't even be playing on the site...