marriage - athiest and catholic?

Dord

ok, so yeah i'm just wondering if any of you have thought about this before, or dealt with it before.
currently i'm seeing a girl who's a catholic. she knows my beliefs, and is fine with them. although, she did pose one question to me. just out of interest, not actually talking about it us getting married. lol

marraige between and athiest and a catholic? how?

Dirk Gently

Atheist walks into church, restrains himself from laughing or making arguments with the priest, shuts up and bites his tongue for an hour and goes along with the whole charade.
Try write your own vows and just explain that you will love and honour your wife without resorting to religious terminology.

This however depends on your Wife accepting that while you don't believe in Catholic marriage you believe in having a life long bond with her. It's really up to her whether she accepts that your willing to go along with the church thing but in fact have your own probably better vision of what a union between two people is. Either she wants the church thing and is willing to accept that you will go along with it to please her because you love her or else have a civil ceremony. You could go for the church option and also hold a separate more Humanist style bonding ritual where you basically organise the ceremony to reflect the way you interpret your life long union.

Two ceremonies, two piss ups, can't go wrong.

robindch

Personally, I'd suggest that you agree to undergo the full catholic wedding -- bells, whistles, organs, holy smoke, parish priest and the rest -- if she agrees that any kids can be brought up as atheists, without a whiff of religion. Seems like a fair deal

Dades

If she wants a church wedding, and is happy that although you may not believe you won't do anything embarassing - go along with it. It's only a cermony - and afterwards you sign the civil papers anyway.

Some people with a genuine grudge against the church may not be capable of it - but for most of us it's not a big deal. (I know - I did it last year ).

As for kids? I wouldn't suggest what Robindch does - otherwise you may not even reach the first hurdle! It makes me laugh - my wife was disgusted to hear that I wouldn't take our kids* to Sunday mass. She hasn't been to Sunday mass in 10 years.

* potential future ones

robindch

> As for kids? I wouldn't suggest what Robindch does - otherwise you may
> not even reach the first hurdle!

Er, that was the intention.

I can't vouch for other non god-botherers, but if some dyevushka I was going out with said that the religious indoctrination of any future kids was a necessary condition for her to have them with me in the first place, then, frankly, I'd thank her very kindly and leave her to find a more suitable donor than me. By her requirement, she'd have signalled quite clearly that religion is her primary interest, not human beings.

Lest anybody think this is a trifle excessive, I've seen religious disagreements in more than just a few families develop into full-blown civil wars as the years drift by...

Zombrex

Won't the Catholic church demand that the OP sign a contract stating that he will agree to raise the children within the Catholic church? Thats what they did (do?) if a Catholic wants to marry a Protestant and want permission from the Catholic church

Dord

thanks for the reply's guys. so yeah, i'm not actually getting married anytime soon, its just something i was asked. and also wondering myself.

i'd have no problem with getting married in a church to satisfy a girl
as for the kids thing as the previous poster said, afaik you have to agree to bring them up in that religion. tbh i wouldnt mind, but it'd be up to the girl if she wanted to bring them to mass or whatever. but on the condition that they have a choice when they are old enough to decide.

Scofflaw

Oddly enough, my father's an atheist, and my mother's a Catholic. They got married in a registry office first, and then had a Church ceremony for her family. She had to agree (and so did he) that the kids would be raised as Catholics. And so we were, a bit. It had little long-term effect: I'm an atheist, as is my sister. My younger brother is Scottish Episcopalian, because he married a very religious woman from Belfast. Except that he's also Buddhist, which complicates the matter. Possibly he got all the available religion.

So, first, it doesn't really matter. Second, to address robin's point - women care deeply about marriage, and when they get married, they want to do it in a way that their family will accept. If their family is Catholic, that means a church wedding in a Catholic church. And that means agreeing that the children will be brought up as Catholics. It doesn't indicate any kind of religious feeling at all - just a devotion to forms.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

My younger brother is Scottish Episcopalian, because he married a very religious woman from Belfast. Except that he's also Buddhist, which complicates the matter. Possibly he got all the available religion.

How did he manage that? That is a real conflict of interest:)

Scofflaw

Asiaprod wrote:

How did he manage that? That is a real conflict of interest:)

Alas! I have not enquired too deeply. He's an anthropologist, and the only person I know who's been spoken to by a god (who thanked him for the loan of a biro), so perhaps that explains some of it. However, I am myself a faith-based atheist, and our mother is now a practising white witch, so possibly we're just an odd lot.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

only person I know who's been spoken to by a god (who thanked him for the loan of a biro)

Lord, don't tell JC and co, we will never hear the end of it. Bet it was a Cross and not a Parker:)

I am myself a faith-based atheist, and our mother is now a practising white witch, so possibly we're just an odd lot.

To the contrary, sounds like a fascinating family, life must be a real ball.

अधिनायक

I'm told that buddhists can have another religion at the same time. Very tolerant lot.

I asked my wife prior to marriage if she believed in God (she'd never mentioned Him in 10 years nor been in a church except for weddings/funerals). She said yes. I thought for a minute. But you also believe in fairies, waving at magpies, not opening umbrellas indoors, reiki? Yes.

Well that's grand so. No church for us or the kids.

Scofflaw

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

I'm told that buddhists can have another religion at the same time. Very tolerant lot.

I asked my wife prior to marriage if she believed in God (she'd never mentioned Him in 10 years nor been in a church except for weddings/funerals). She said yes. I thought for a minute. But you also believe in fairies, waving at magpies, not opening umbrellas indoors, reiki? Yes.

Well that's grand so. No church for us or the kids.

I suspect most people are basically tolerant polytheists (well, not extra gods, but a wide collection of animism and superstition). It's the fiery monotheists that are the trouble.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Scofflaw wrote:

It's the fiery monotheists that are the trouble.

Yep, probably got something to do with all those images of a hell, fire and brimstone.

Asiaprod

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

I'm told that buddhists can have another religion at the same time. Very tolerant lot.

Not sure about the other religions since Buddhism is not a religion. Probably means they can adopt elements from other religions into their practice. The lines between Buddhism, Jainisim and Hinduism overlap in many areas. Then there are so many schools of Buddhism that I would not be surprised. You are very right on the tolerant bit, we do try, though not always succsessfully. In my case, Creationists just drive me up the wall, don't know where they come up with all those ideas to try to justify their beliefs.

Dades

Wicknight wrote:

Won't the Catholic church demand that the OP sign a contract stating that he will agree to raise the children within the Catholic church?

There are docs you need to sign to get a priest to marry you, and to use a church alright. Fortunately the "enforcers" of this contract don't exist if you're an atheist.

Scofflaw - I mean this in the best way - your family sounds like the pitch for a sitcom.

Munya

Well I don’t think it’s possible, but it depends on how much you and your wife respect her beliefs.

For you to get married in a Catholic Church when you don’t believe in the "owner of the house" and have no intention on living a Catholic marriage, in my opinion, is an insult to the beliefs of Catholics. The service would be a sham.

Zillah

I'm with Robindch on this, if you don't clarify that you don't want the kids indoctrinated into fairytales-as-fact early on then its asking for trouble later, and its not worth it if you can't sort it out.

Asiaprod

Zillah wrote:

I'm with Robindch on this, if you don't clarify that you don't want the kids indoctrinated into fairytales-as-fact early on then its asking for trouble later, and its not worth it if you can't sort it out.

Me too, I'm with Robin and Zillah on this. Trouble will follow if you dont laydown the rules ahead of time. Better to go into this with clear understanding and open eyes, than to have to deal with the issue at a later stage when it becomes emotional, hence irrational.

tabatha

im a catholic and my husband is an athiest. we got marrind in a registry office as my husband wasnt interested in a church. we dont have any children but if we did they would be catholic. we have discussed this and he wouldnt be happy but would have to live with it like i did my church wedding!:)

robindch

> Second, to address robin's point - women care deeply about marriage,
> and when they get married, they want to do it in a way that their family
> will accept. If their family is Catholic, that means a church wedding in a
> Catholic church. And that means agreeing that the children will be brought
> up as Catholics. It doesn't indicate any kind of religious feeling at all - just
> a devotion to forms.

I accept completely the 'devotion to forms' idea and the catholic church continues to exist because it trades upon the idea (amongst others)!

However, it's a relationship thing -- a bit of give and take here and there and all are happy. I still don't see what's wrong with the OP who's willing to give up his objection to the church, if the OP's girl is willing to give up her objection to a religion-free education for their kids -- both sides get one thing they want, when both would have preferred two. It only all goes wrong when one of the two sides starts dictating how it should be for everybody, with no discussion. And religion, in my experience, is a prime producer of undiscussable topics!

WRT to the 'bring your kids up as catholics' thing, I'm not really sure how effective it is anyway, outside of church-on-sunday and choosing an appropriately-flavored school. Look at godparents, for example, who sign up to the same thing: how many people here received sackloads of religion from their own godparents outside of baptism, first communion and confirmation? I mean, even I'm a go{o}d-father and my confirmation gift to my sister's youngest kid was this thing, one of only two religiously-themed gifts she got:

http://www.shipoffools.com/Gadgets/Autos/108.html

One does what one can

Dades

Munya wrote:

The service would be a sham.

It's impossible by definition to view it as a sham from a non-believer standpoint. You instead view it as making a small sacrifice to give your catholic partner, friends and family the day that is so imporant to them.

If in real life every RC church wedding had to be between two committed catholics, there'd be dust on those bells and a booming trade in registry offices.

Re raising kids, I concur it may be necessary to reach a conclusion where one parent has strong feelings on religion. As in where "indoctrination" will be done at home as well as school.

Zillah

tabatha wrote:

im a catholic and my husband is an athiest. we got marrind in a registry office as my husband wasnt interested in a church. we dont have any children but if we did they would be catholic. we have discussed this and he wouldnt be happy but would have to live with it like i did my church wedding!:)

Sounds like he really got the bad deal there...

Munya

The Atheist wrote:

If in real life every RC church wedding had to be between two committed catholics, there'd be dust on those bells and a booming trade in registry offices.

Ye I see most Catholics as being Catholic by tradition not religion.

aidan24326

Scofflaw wrote:

However, I am myself a faith-based atheist, and our mother is now a practising white witch, so possibly we're just an odd lot.

What exactly is a 'faith-based atheist' ? Is that not something of a contradiction in terms?

Funsterdelux

Registry office?

DinoBot

joe robot wrote:

ok, so yeah i'm just wondering if any of you have thought about this before, or dealt with it before.
currently i'm seeing a girl who's a catholic. she knows my beliefs, and is fine with them. although, she did pose one question to me. just out of interest, not actually talking about it us getting married. lol

marraige between and athiest and a catholic? how?

In my experience religion is a topic of great importance in a marraige. If the people are of different religions, no matter what, it can cause problems unless both people talk openly and honestly about it.

This becomes more heightened when you have kids. You really have to ask yourself if you are okay with your kids being brought up RC. Will you attend the mass with them ? conformation ? help them with their religious homework from school ? Christmas ?

Because if you take the attitude, like so many do, "I'll just tell them how it is, there is no God" this could lead to problems between you.

Im not saying it does'nt work. Im just saying it needs more work to work