[Article] Mini-busaras planned by Dublin Bus

Zebra3

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1621407&issue_id=14110

'Mini Busaras' planned for city centre

DUBLIN Bus plans to build a 'mini Busaras' on a site off Abbey Street which will allow commuters to sip cappuccino while they wait for their bus home.

The company has announced plans to go into partnership with a private developer and build an eight-bay bus depot with shops, cafes and a newsagent on a site between Abbey Street and the north quays. The eight-acre site was earmarked for development in the 1980s as a city centre bus depot and retail centre. The planning tribunal was told two years ago that former TD Liam Lawlor was paid up to €70,000 for his 'consultancy work' on the project by a UK property developer.

Dublin Bus believe that its close proximity to the Jervis and Abbey Street Luas stops will result in better public transport links and less traffic in the city.

"Building work should begin by the end of the summer," a spokesperson said. "We haven't decided what services will use it, but it is likely to be late-night buses.

"We're trying to get off the main congestion routes in the city like the quays because it's just getting worse and worse. We hope to be able to get access to Abbey Street and to share the road with Luas as happens in other countries."

The successful developer will provide the bus interchange and retail element free of charge to Dublin Bus at an estimated cost of €6-€9m. They will also pay a sum of money to the company. In return, the developer will build apartments overhead which are likely to attract a premium considering their city centre location.

Paul Melia

Sounds like a good idea.

Would this help alleviate any of the problems that would be caused by bringing the Luas around in front of Trinity College?

murphaph

I think it's a dreadful idea tbh. Maybe in the old days before Luas it might have made sense down there but I just don't see the benefit in it. We need to invest in bus priority measures right across the city to allow more routes to run cross-city in a reliable timely manner, and move away from city centre termination. Bus interchanges with rail are great, but this isn't one, it's just a large city centre bus stop.

mikemac

If Busaras is overcrowded, would using Sheriff Street be an option?

My car park for work is on that street so I pass it every day. There seems to be a taxi rank there but I've never seen taxi's there.

Maybe Bus Eireann could run some services from this street as there's lots of Bus stops and room available.

Maskhadov

Bus aras is a joke. The size of the station would be ok for the likes of Galway or Limerick but for Dublin its tiny. Getting in or out of it is a nightmare most of the time. It really should be three or four times the size or have another major bus station south of the liffey somewhere serving all the southern traffic.

Any moves to ease the gridlock for commuters is welcome of course.

lostexpectation

is that opposite that loading bay, more near capel street, where that film office and the car park with the big billboard in it is right, where they already park a few buses?

murphaph

lostexpectation wrote:

is that opposite that loading bay, more near capel street, where that film office and the car park with the big billboard in it is right, where they already park a few buses?

That's the spot.

Ste.phen

looks like they're giving up a plot of land they barely use and getting a free bus station built for them, seems to be a win/win for Dublin Bus?

Could be a good spot to start outer-outer suburban routes?

strassenwolf

Today's Irish Times wrote:

New CIÉ bus hub planned due to surge in demand
Emmet Oliver

CIÉ through its subsidiary Bus Éireann is planning a second Busáras on an eight-acre site in the IFSC as customer numbers for the bus company near 50million per annum.

The total spend on the project has not been disclosed, but CIÉ hopes the new hub will be self-financing through a combination of commercial, residential and retail developments on site. The land is currently owned by CIÉ and forms part of the east side of Connolly Station.

Bus Éireann has revealed that plans are under way for the construction of what it calls "a major bus hub" in the IFSC. The company's customer numbers climbed to their highest level in 2006 and now stand at a record 49.5 million in 2006, up from 48 million in 2005. Increases in customers have been recorded right across the business.

CIÉ said the new facility would be more than just an overflow for Busáras and would be a major transport and commercial development for the IFSC and surrounding areas. A strong rise in customer numbers had made the move necessary, explained the chairman of CIÉ Dr John Lynch.

"Bus Éireann is now hitting the 50 million mark in terms of annual customer numbers. That's a record figure and it follows a consistent year-on-year growth trend, which is not going unnoticed. Independent studies are also highlighting the company's strong performance in recent years, delivering major growth in services and doing so against a backdrop of increasing congestion."

In particular Bus Éireann commuter services had grown in the last six years, he said. Figures showed that commuter departures from Busáras rose from 53 per day in 1988 to 101 in 2000, rising to 271 per day in 2006 to meet demand.

He said gridlock was significantly detrimental to the financial position of the company, imposing an excess cost of €20 million on Bus Éireann. He added that the site was ideal in terms of integrated transport, its location in the IFSC and proximity to the North Docklands, which would be developed further in the coming years, he said.

The proposed station will be located on lands adjacent to the east side of Connolly Station, facilitating access between rail and bus facilities and the Red Luas Line which is to be extended to the North Docklands.

Such a major capital project for CIÉ may appear daunting but a key component of the development is self-financing through the inclusion of a retail, commercial and residential dimension.

Consultants are expected to tender proposals for an outline development scheme for the site in early 2007.

© 2006 The Irish Times

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admiralofthefleet

years ago i thought to myself: why dont CIE move busaras to grange castle and create a major metro hub in busaras as it stands now, buses could stop in busaras at grange castle and people could hop on a metro to the city centre from busaras grange castle to the metro hub at store street and link up with the other transport links from there. think about it..hop on the interconnector and go where you need, broadstone should be used as a link to meath, finglas, and other areas in north west dublin, as well as linking up with metro north....which should be going further south of ranelagh, the original harcourt line was built to mainline standards and could possibly handle a metro also

Victor

Once more, further away from Luas. :rolleyes:

Can you provide a link for the piece? Its only fair.

strassenwolf

Victor wrote:

Can you provide a link for the piece? Its only fair.

Apologies, Victor.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2006/1230/1167401848463.html

Zebra3

Victor wrote:

Once more, further away from Luas. :rolleyes:

Not too familiar with the IFSC area, but is this not near the Luas extension to the Point?

On a slightly seperate note, have Bus Éireann started to use the Port Tunnel yet? Is it not a good thing that the new hub is nearer to the tunnel to take advantage of it?

AlekSmart

The central issue to remember here is the difference between Bus EIREANN and Bus ATHA CLIATH.

Two completely and seprerately distinct operations with differing methodology and ethos.
That I sholuld be pointing this out at all is testimony to the shambles which Irish Public Transport Regulation actually is.

Full marks to CIE for finally recognizing that the current Busaras is unsustainable in its present state.
While it is eminently suitable as a hub it patently cannot deal with the current volume of business and desperately requires some form of assistance from the City Administration if it is to operate at all.

Bus Atha Cliath`s requirements are a different kettle of fresh cod and it`s debateable whether it has Any strategic aim`s in relation to City Centre operations.
The Strand Street development is a welcome one BUT it is hampered by a somewhat isolated location in traffic flow terms.
However,I can see a very tidy operation here for Westbound Routes IF IF IF the Buses are GUARANTEED accessibility to it.

Unless Dublin City Council are prepared to FULLY Bus Prioritize this facility then BAC should hold back from development as it could merely be constructing a mini Busaras with the exact same restrictions as are currently evident at the other end of Abbey St.

It would appear that for the moment both BAC and DCC are fully satisfied with the shambles of O Connell St as a major Bus Hub.
This arm in arm understanding is probably the main reason why,after a spend in excess of €50 Million,there is not a single stretch of Disability Access Kassel Kerb or a Bus Shelter along the entire street even though a huge number of "Fully Accessible" Bus routes are forced along it.....Planning...? ...."sorry you`ll have to come back another time,the Planner is out sick !! "

Red Alert

Disability access kerbs are a costly (yet in many cases worthwhile) setup, but I would not focus development on them to the detriment of other more needed measures.

All the non-RA/RV buses have disability access ramps which can be used if needed anyway.

AlekSmart

Costly they may well be,but the Kassel Kerb is an INTEGRAL part of the package which constitutes Disability Accessibility.

There is somewhat more to the principle than providing a shiny new Low-Floor Bus with Power Operated Ramp.

The Power Operated Wheelchair Ramp is not rated for constant use and is placed under severe loading when it is deployed in an over-centre manner.
It is also meant as a boarding aid for Wheelchairs rather than for Buggies and Quads etc.
Its constant use by foot passengers will soon bend the somewhat fragile Piano Wire hinge thus leading to rapid wear on the drive mechanism.

Properly installed Kassel kerbing will align with a Low-Floor Bus in Suspension Kneeling mode and I have seen many wheelchair users being able to board without having to have the ramp deployed at all.

My point re O Connell St remains unanswered as it is presently the largest and most recent Street Upgrade programme carried out in Dublin.

Zoney

Busaras is a bit of a sick joke considering the revamped bus station in Cork, or even the new bus stations in little towns dotted round the country. Limerick's current bus station is higher capacity (and even so doesn't have enough bays for buses, particularly for example on mornings/evenings/Fridays) - and a rather extensive new station is planned. Incidentally - the Limerick one is co-located with the railway station.

Busaras is decrepid, absurdly low capacity (I suspect at least 4x the size is needed). The only at least reasonable thing is its location, near to Connolly and the city centre.

As for those people suggesting intercity buses terminate outside the city - the suggestion lacks any grounding in reality. As is, the Dublin city transport struggles to get people into the city (where most people want to go); and believe me, any new Metro will only take a couple of years to face the same capacity issues as the Luas. Why on earth would you add to this chaos by terminating buses outside the city, rather than provide priority corridors for them? The right thing to do is further curtail city centre road traffic - that's just unsustainable as Dublin grows - and have pretty much just buses in the city centre. Buses carry dozens of people, cars clutter up the streets and carry at most four or five; but more usually one or two.

Any politicians talking about terminating intercity buses outside the city are suggesting it because the alternative is more bus lanes in the city (or indeed bus-only streets) which is polically unpopular, because the majority are car dependant and want the right to waste their lives battling traffic to get into the city.

Victor

Suburban bus stations (no terminii) are useful - look at the BE routes that run through Dublin Airport. If you live in Santry, coming from Dundlak, would you prefer to go all the way to the city centre and get a bus back out or get a 16 or 41 from the airport?

Red Alert wrote:

Disability access kerbs are a costly (yet in many cases worthwhile) setup, but I would not focus development on them to the detriment of other more needed measures.

If you are rebuilding an entire street in stone paving, Kassel Kerbs are probably cheaper.

Victor

I have confirmation that this is in the Connolly car park.

KC61

Victor wrote:

I have confirmation that this is in the Connolly car park.

To clarify there are two bus stations being spoken about here:

1) Dublin Bus - Between Middle Abbey Street and Strand Street
2) Bus Eireann - Current Connolly Station car park

The plan apparently is to build a new multi-storey car park for Connolly

DerekP11

And to think that while Charlie was messin with a judges wife, ordering shirts from outlets that put Dunnes stores to shame and accepting assistance from "friends", he was also destroying the only proposed bus/rail hub/interchange in Temple Bar. But then, he had a vision, didn't he? And of course the IFSC absolved him from everything right? Oh and he did appoint the "judge" to a decent oul position.

I find it so very sad that we debate the same crap over and over. Accept the "Irish" Left Bank as cool and productive, (Charlie got the idea in Paris, while he was with the judges wife) and then vote his successors in again and again.

The city of Dublin had a plan. It wasn't too bad. We didn't have the money to implement it. But instead of protecting that plan, we sold its seeds off to property developers and now we wonder why the tribunals are costing so much.

Isn't it incredible that over 30 years later at the richest point in our history, we're still trying to "address" the same issues? Irish voters don't deserve solutions, despite their moaning. They have the power to change it, but have never used it.

Can't wait for Transport 22. If there is an afterlife, I'll be looking.

Sarsfield

DerekP11 wrote:

Accept the "Irish" Left Bank as cool and productive, (Charlie got the idea in Paris, while he was with the judges wife) and then vote his successors in again and again.

Well, it's a massive tourist draw. I wonder what it's worth to the economy, rather than to our intellectual development. Probably more than a bus station I have to say.

A massive BÁC bus station in An Lár would not be conducive to a proper network joining locations without having to visit the city centre.

Isn't it incredible that over 30 years later at the richest point in our history, we're still trying to "address" the same issues?

Not really. From now to the end of humanity the same issues will be to the fore. Health, security, economy. It's a neverending battle with a changing world.

markpb

Sarsfield wrote:

Well, it's a massive tourist draw. I wonder what it's worth to the economy, rather than to our intellectual development. Probably more than a bus station I have to say.

A massive BÁC bus station in An Lár would not be conducive to a proper network joining locations without having to visit the city centre.

That depends on your priorities. What's more important, a decent, functioning bus network with reliable service for the millions of people who use DB every day or a string of bars for tourists?

Bus stations means less buses laying up on streets and destroying them (Marlborough st, Talbot st, etc). They also make it easier for tourists to use buses because they know exactly where to go and can find staff to ask questions. They mean shelter from the weather and waiting for a bus in a brightly lit, safe environment instead of an exposed bus pole on a badly lit footpath.

If it was done properly, the roads leading to and from the bus station could be made bus only which means buses wouldn't be stuck in traffic in the city centre, wasting everyone's time. It also means that buses could lay up in the city centre instead of coming in from bus depots outside the city centre.

It's not the be all and end all but it's definitely a good idea, a badly needed idea and Charlie killed it.

DerekP11

And remember that the temple bar proposal was also about rail and and bus integration. Im not CIE's biggest fan but it was a great idea, really visionary and of course on lands that were pretty much owned by CIE. s

And while your talking about what the current set up in Temple Bar is worth to the economy, remember that the ability to move people around a city to their place of employment efficiently and without a detrimental affect on their quality of life, is worth far more to the economy than a cluster of bars, restaurants and galleries, that the city is full of anyway.

But while its water under the bridge now, I believe the legacy that it contributed to, should never be forgotten.

Victor

KC61 wrote:

To clarify there are two bus stations being spoken about here:

1) Dublin Bus - Between Middle Abbey Street and Strand Street
2) Bus Eireann - Current Connolly Station car park

The plan apparently is to build a new multi-storey car park for Connolly

Apologies, my fault.

spacetweek

According to the original post building work on the Abbey St site was supposed to have begun last summer 2006? What happened?

AlekSmart

It appears that the Hotel Developer is as yet undecided on the logistics of the Premises.
The issue of whether to have a stand alone Hotel or to franchise it to a third party....These things take time U know....Rome was`nt built in a day....