Cannabis Legalisation a 2007 election issue?

irishcurse

Found this in my local paper (Tyrone Constitution) today and thought it was interesting. The Centre for Cannabis Policy Reform Ireland ( www.ccpr.ie) have begun campaigning along with some youth parties like Labour Youth and the Greens to make this an election issue, and there are going to be marches around the country leading up to election. Their philosophy is that because cannabis is safer than alcohol, legalisation would curb the problems associated with binge drinking. I dunno about that but I have to say it sounds like a good idea...in theory. Thoughts?

RedPlanet

While i would agree with the statement that cannabis is safer than alcohol and could potentially free up A&E etc. I think they haven't a hope in hell in making this an election issue because people here are way too propagandanised against it. Besides Ireland never takes the lead regarding legislation generally and mostly takes the cue from Britain(smoking ban being about the sole exception).

zuma

Legalise cannabis and make it a cheaper substitute to alcohol!

I remember the sole time the English football hooligans didnt thrash an event and that was when they were too high to cause a lot of trouble in the Netherlands a couple of years back.

bonkey

RedPlanet wrote:

Besides Ireland never takes the lead regarding legislation generally and mostly takes the cue from Britain(smoking ban being about the sole exception).

Generally, and mostly being the operative words there. You notice yourself that the smoking ban was an exception. The plastic-bag surcharge thing was also a good example of where Ireland wasn't just following the British example, but doing things for itself.

Lets not also forget that the Brits have already dabbled in changing their cannabis legislation.

I'd agree that it still seems unlikely, but then again there should be a referendum later this year in Switzerland to legalise it here. My guess is that 2007 is a bit early for it to be a serious issue in Ireland, but by the subsequent election it will be complained about being overdue if it hasn't happened.

jc

lostexpectation

so tell us how did their jday go?

homah_7ft

I don't see this becoming an issue due to the profile of voters. As an aside I think people lobbying for it's legalisation/decriminalisation should avoid the comparison to alcohol route.

RedPlanet

homah_7ft wrote:

...As an aside I think people lobbying for it's legalisation/decriminalisation should avoid the comparison to alcohol route.

why do you think that?

lostexpectation

Their philosophy is that because cannabis is safer than alcohol, legalisation would curb the problems associated with binge drinking

^Im not getting this sentence?

po0k

It won't be legalised. The Vintiners Assoc. and the Revenue Commissioners won't ly back while they lose their slick-willy slosh fund from our over-indulgence. Bog-forbid we ever adopt a mature attitiude to alcohol, the economy would collapse!

I'd like to see sativa/hemp production legalised/clarified or even promoted, along with clinical experiments of canabis and some other substances.
Course, I'd also love to see soap-bar taken off the streets and licenced chemists, tobacconists, cafe-owners selling something far less carcenogenic, more regulated and of higher quality at a reasonable price.

johnthesavage

SyxPak wrote:

I'd like to see sativa/hemp production legalised/clarified or even promoted, along with clinical experiments of canabis and some other substances.
Course, I'd also love to see soap-bar taken off the streets and licenced chemists, tobacconists, cafe-owners selling something far less carcenogenic, more regulated and of higher quality at a reasonable price.

I'd like to see pigs fly, it ain't gonna happen, simple as that. We haven't even reached the stage of widespread rational debate yet. There are many compelling arguments against prohibition, the only response seems to be "drugs are bad, mmmkay"

I do think there are many more important issues to be discussed, however, and not just at election time. I suppose anything can be an election issue, if enough people want it to be.

DublinWriter

As much as I'd love to see it legalised, don't expect it in this country.

Remember what happened with 'schooms last year?

You'll have some biddy ringing up Joe Duffy saying that her precious little 12-year old Billy jumped off a roof after a joint (who'd never done anything like it before and was a complete little angel!).

Then the media will jump on it, there'll be questions and hang-wringing in the Dail, etc etc etc.

We're turning into a bunch of UK tabloid morons in this country.

meditraitor

johnthesavage wrote:

There are many compelling arguments against prohibition, the only response seems to be "drugs are bad, mmmkay"
.

Is that a fact?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054877743&referrerid=59211&highlight=cannabis

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054851075&referrerid=59211&highlight=cannabis

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054861456&referrerid=59211&highlight=cannabis
You should check out these these threads, some compelling arguments For and against legalisation

"Drugs are bad mmmkay" isnt the only argument against legalisation chief,,,

johnthesavage

meditraitor wrote:

"Drugs are bad mmmkay" isnt the only argument against legalisation chief,,,

You're right Chief, not the only argument, but I still believe prohibition causes much more harm than good, and that some of the common "anti" arguments are illogical.
Anyway I don't think this will be an issue in the next election.

The Corinthian

The legalisation of cannabis will not be a serious topic in the next election or for the foreseeable future. The reasons is principally one of voter demographics; most support for its legalisation tends to come from under 25’s, who basically don’t vote or are not even registered to vote. Older people, who do vote in larger numbers, tend to be either against or simply don’t see it as important enough to sway them.

This is not to say that all the supporters of legalisation are under 25 or that none of those over 25 would not vote in favour of its legalisation; only that the demographics are such that the democratic support is simply not there.

So, no - cannabis legalisation will not be a serious 2007 election issue.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

ball ox

funny, I was talking about this last night with a mate (23) and his Dad (51). Neither myself or my mate smoke cannibus but were trying to explain to his Dad that it was not as dangerous as alcohol. Using tired expressions like "you wont get stoners smashing bottles over eachother in the chipper after the pubs close". His Dad was having none of it though. His view was "it's a drug, it's illegal for a reaon, it will mess you up, look at young jonny down the road who started out on it and is on smack now etc."

It seems to me the problem is, as people have mentioed, most voters have the same logic. Our parents generation are ignorant towards drugs because they are not educated enough about them. Most young people can pick up a flyer on drug use and its effects in any college or club. If it ever is legalised it certainly wont happen untill our generation (im 21) are the majority voters

The Corinthian

ball ox wrote:

If it ever is legalised it certainly wont happen untill our generation (im 21) are the majority voters

No, you'll just vote for the party that gives the biggest tax cuts or protects your job or home. Cannabis will simply not be a major issue for you.

Ever look at the sixties? These were the people who made cannabis popular in the first place. They were convinced that it wouldn’t be legalised until their generation would be the majority voters either. Now they’re the people who vote against its legalisation.

Same with guys who would have smoked when I was in college in the 80’s and 90’s.

So you think your generation’s special and it’ll buck the trend?

Guess again.

Misty Moon

ball ox wrote:

His Dad was having none of it though. His view was "it's a drug, it's illegal for a reaon, it will mess you up, look at young jonny down the road who started out on it and is on smack now etc."

I hate this argument - if it was legalised and available at a reasonable price from licensed premises (so what if you have to go to a chemist to buy it) then young jonny down the road if much less likely to have been in contact with someone who could seel him smack in the first place. Anyhoo...same old same old. Must go and read some of those other threads.

I'll be making it an election issue anyway. If I ever actually come face to face with a politician. Am living in a more owner-occupied than rented area now so maybe there'll be more canvassing than I'm used to.

DublinWriter

ball ox wrote:

His Dad was having none of it though. His view was "it's a drug, it's illegal for a reaon, it will mess you up, look at young jonny down the road who started out on it and is on smack now etc."

Age can do funny things to you.

What's the bets his Dad was quite the stoner in the early 70's?

...and what's the bets you'll say exactly the same thing to your son when you're 51?

irishcurse

lostexpectation wrote:

Their philosophy is that because cannabis is safer than alcohol, legalisation would curb the problems associated with binge drinking

^Im not getting this sentence?

See the legislation the CCPR are trying to put through the dail next year for an explanation of the whole cannabis-alcohol thing:
http://www.ccpr.ie/media/documents/Cannabis-Alcohol-Equalisation-Mar-06.pdf

Widgeon

I see that there is still a lot of ill informed comment about cannabis and its effects on people. I suggest that people do some research before they make statements that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol. It is less widely used so the effects may not be as visible initially people and that may give a false impression as to its harmfulness.
As regards it being an election issue - it was some years ago with a number of candidates standing in different constituencies around the country. If memory serves me correctly, there was very little support for these canditates.

irishcurse

Widgeon wrote:

I see that there is still a lot of ill informed comment about cannabis and its effects on people. I suggest that people do some research before they make statements that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol. It is less widely used so the effects may not be as visible initially people and that may give a false impression as to its harmfulness.
As regards it being an election issue - it was some years ago with a number of candidates standing in different constituencies around the country. If memory serves me correctly, there was very little support for these canditates.

Yeah, umm, you could have done some research yourself before posting that.
The British Medical Journal of September 2003 stated that there has never been a single fatal marijuana overdose recorded in the medical literature. Compared to the 14,223 deaths in Ireland due to alcohol between 1992 and 2002.
The British government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs and the Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs said that unlike alcohol, marijuana use is not generally a cause of violence or aggressive behaviour and in fact tends to reduce vioence and aggression.

It's safer! the only way you can die from cannabis is (and I quote someone else) is if someone dropped a ten-ton block of it on your head!

The Corinthian

irishcurse wrote:

The British Medical Journal of September 2003 stated that there has never been a single fatal marijuana overdose recorded in the medical literature. Compared to the 14,223 deaths in Ireland due to alcohol between 1992 and

That’s a misleading statement. There may have been 14,223 deaths in Ireland due to alcohol between 1992 and 2002, but were these alcohol overdoses rather than alcohol related deaths? And if not why are you comparing them against a lack of fatal marijuana overdoses? Otherwise you’re making a false comparison.

The British government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs and the Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs said that unlike alcohol, marijuana use is not generally a cause of violence or aggressive behaviour and in fact tends to reduce vioence and aggression.

Yet so do cigarettes, but that doesn’t make them particularly healthy.

It's safer! the only way you can die from cannabis is (and I quote someone else) is if someone dropped a ten-ton block of it on your head!

I’m not overly bothered either way in the cannabis debate, being neither particularly pro or against it, however it would not take a genius to figure out that there are health issues associated with it. To begin with hashish is generally combined alongside tobacco, this makes it’s use bad for your health even if the hashish itself is perfectly healthy.

That’s not to say that it should remain banned due to health reasons alone, only that claming that there are no ill effects is misleading.

lostexpectation

ah thats pretty bad proposal, im disappointed, putting deaths at the top is a mismatch as corinthian says, highligth the lack of aggression etc, and the futility of chasing 'casual users' but don't compare it to alcohol deaths.

ming is still a councillor isn't he?

DublinWriter

The Corinthian wrote:

why are you comparing them against a lack of fatal marijuana overdoses?

Because you need to smoke your own body weight in cannabis in a 12 hour period to overdose on it.

You can overdose and die on Vitamin C if you take enough of it.

The Corinthian wrote:

That’s not to say that it should remain banned due to health reasons alone, only that claming that there are no ill effects is misleading.

Of course there are ill effects, but in comparison to alcohol the ill effects are negligable.

The Corinthian

DublinWriter wrote:

Because you need to smoke your own body weight in cannabis in a 12 hour period to overdose on it.

You can overdose and die on Vitamin C if you take enough of it.

That’s not what I’m saying. Irishcurse was making a comparison between alcohol related deaths and cannabis overdose induced deaths. That’s a false comparison.

Of course there are ill effects, but in comparison to alcohol the ill effects are negligable.

That may be the case, I don’t know. All I know is that someone made a dubious medical argument in this thread that frankly looked like it was consciously designed to mislead. And, TBH, claiming something as sweeping as negligible ill effects sounds like more of the same to me.

mike65

No one will be elected or loose a seat cos of weed.

Mike.

irishcurse

I believe the 14,223 deaths are overdose deaths, not incidental deaths like road accidents or something. So the comparison remains relevant; no-one dies from cannabis, a lot of people die from alcohol. Which isn't to say it's 'harmless', but it simply isn't toxic enough to kill you.

The Corinthian

irishcurse wrote:

I believe the 14,223 deaths are overdose deaths, not incidental deaths like road accidents or something.

Not strictly speaking what you said. Indeed that you now need to qualify that statement as no longer fact but something you are unsure is the case adds to my suspicion. Perhaps you might share a link to the findings of that report with us?

So the comparison remains relevant; no-one dies from cannabis, a lot of people die from alcohol. Which isn't to say it's 'harmless', but it simply isn't toxic enough to kill you.

Again that’s not what you said, you said “the only way you can die from cannabis is (and I quote someone else) is if someone dropped a ten-ton block of it on your head”. At best you’ve demonstrated that it is difficult to impossible to die due to overdose, but that’s it. That’s a far cry from what you’re saying now.

mike65 wrote:

No one will be elected or loose a seat cos of weed.

Indeed not.

lostexpectation

irishcurse wrote:

I believe the 14,223 deaths are overdose deaths, not incidental deaths like road accidents or something. So the comparison remains relevant; no-one dies from cannabis, a lot of people die from alcohol. Which isn't to say it's 'harmless', but it simply isn't toxic enough to kill you.

when has some conservative politicion gone on some talkshow to warn of the dangers of overdosing from cannabis ?

meditraitor

irishcurse wrote:

I believe the 14,223 deaths are overdose deaths, not incidental deaths like road accidents or something. So the comparison remains relevant; no-one dies from cannabis, a lot of people die from alcohol. Which isn't to say it's 'harmless', but it simply isn't toxic enough to kill you.

Your mistaken, this is most likely the total RELATED deaths attributed to alcohol use (still it is very disturbing)

Alcohol related mortality 1992-2002, rates per 100,000
Disease 1992 2002

1. Cancers related to alcohol: mouth, throat, oesophagus, liver 15.53 16.67

2. Alcohol chronic conditions: alcohol dependency, alcohol abuse,
alcohol psychosis 1.49 2.40

3. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis 2.7 4.6

4. Alcohol acute conditions: alcohol poisoning, toxic effect of alcohol 0.51 0.97

5. Suicide 10.2 11.5

Alcohol consumption, per capita 8.23 11.31

Source: CSO Vital Statistics, Annual Reports

0.97 people from every 100,000 in population(3.5mill at the time)x 10 is certainly not 14,223. but this thread is not about alcohol related deaths, its about cannabis.... In my view(only re-iterating what some people have already said) it will not become an election issue as there is not enough interest in the legalisation from the percentage of population that are in government and the people who actually vote them in!

irishcurse

Well, it looks like the statistics are presented wrongly, whether it was the intention to mislead or not. I didn't say cannabis was harmless, everything is harmless if taken to extremes, but it is safer, and you simply cannot die from it!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

unless you're allergic, or you have an existing medical conditoin that it aggrivates.

it's pretty safe, but nothing is harmless. how many people die a year from drowning, or drinking too much water or whatever other water related deaths.. and we haven't made this scourge illegal?

punish h2oheads!
filthy junkies!!

five exclamation points!!!!!

SeanW

I believe cannibis should be legalised. However I doubt it will be an election issue.

Dave!

Are there any TD's who are pro-legalisation...?

irishcurse

There's one, the Socialist Party guy so it's an uphill struggle to say the least! Although to everyone who says 'this won't be an election issue' the whole point of the current campaign is to make it one. If it's well enough funded and advertised who knows?