Civil Service Jobs

wuggy_bear

I work for semi state organisation, its a hospital, has anyone come across the red tape invovled in getting answers to question and the length of time involved.

and also the typical civil service worker that is in the organisation and is unwilling to change their ways of work?

whats the private industry like to work in? i need advice as im thinking of moving to accenture or any other company in the private industry

TempestSabre

You get good and bad jobs/organisations/people in both public and private sectors.

DublinWriter

wuggy_bear wrote:

whats the private industry like to work in? i need advice as im thinking of moving to accenture or any other company in the private industry

I've worked as an independant consultant in both private and public sectors for the past 10 years.

From my recent work with the public sector, their perception of it seems to be that the private sector must be all go-go-go and that there's no politics involved and that it's all profit driven.

Quite the opposite, the private sector can be equally, if not more so, politically driven than the public sector, and often times there's quite a lot of waste in the private sector.

Accenture tend to recruit graduates fresh out of college who get firsts in any discipline, and mold them into their way of thinking/acting.

When they were 'Andersons' they were christened 'robots' for very good reasons.

Accenture have secured a number of high-profile contracts within the public sector, as it seems to be a good corporate fit for them...bit scary political private sector organisation working within a big scary public sector organisation.

Personally I prefare working for SME's, prefarably privately owned, where you'll get a wide exposure to a large number of different tasks and if you're good, you'll get to have the ear of the Directors.

wuggy_bear

cheers for this. its the first bit of good advice ive got in the last while

Gurgle

wuggy_bear wrote:

has anyone come across the red tape invovled in getting answers to question and the length of time involved.

Don't know what type of question you're talking about but at least in the cs you might eventually get an answer.

wuggy_bear wrote:

the typical civil service worker that is in the organisation and is unwilling to change their ways of work?

Private sector is the same.

wuggy_bear wrote:

im thinking of moving to accenture or any other company in the private industry

Move to the private sector and you will regret it.
The extra money is largely hypothetical.
Bonuses and pay rises are more likely to depend on meterological events than on how you do your job.
Holidays and working hours are crap compared to civil service.

TempestSabre

Private or Public I think it depends very much on the people you work with, and the quality of the people making the decisions and managing the organisation.

Quite often if you are unhappy in one place, simply moving to another team, or under different management can result in a much improved working enviroment.

arctic lemur

TempestSabre wrote:

Private or Public I think it depends very much on the people you work with, and the quality of the people making the decisions and managing the organisation.

Quite often if you are unhappy in one place, simply moving to another team, or under different management can result in a much improved working enviroment.

I agree worked for both public and private sectors

secret_squirrel

I work for a semi-state a coupla years ago a lot of people left. Most of them regret it now and say they would come back in a shot. Mostly due to increased flexibility and better working conditions, better pension rights etc etc. A just a better craic in general.

Beware of 'Grass is always greener' syndrome.

Also what kind of question were you asking?

leeroybrown

I agree with the above. Most large organisations will have a lot of politics and red tape. There are efficient well run places to work either side of the fence. I would say that a large private sector company would be slightly more streamlined but that might be offset by extra pressure on employees to push against the bureaucracy. I think that private organisations tend to be a lot better at making strong decisions at the top which does help move thing along.

I've worked for huge, medium and small private companies and currently work in a public-sector funded position where I get a first hand glimpse of the politics at work.

FlutterinBantam

Comes down to this....

If you want to sled along.... work the system.... good holidays.... pension... sick leave... practically unsackable...not too much excitement....if there is a picture of Joe Higgins on yer wall... then the public sector is your bag.


I you want to ride the waves...take the risks.... run the gauntlet... tee it up with the big boys.... private sector is the man for you


Soooo simple

TempestSabre

I found that a lot of people working in public jobs, especially like the idea of serving the public in some way. It was more than just a safe job, they had higher ideals. Obviously not everyone is the same.

FlutterinBantam

TempestSabre wrote:

I found that a lot of people working in public jobs, especially like the idea of serving the public in some way. It was more than just a safe job, they had higher ideals. Obviously not everyone is the same.

Beggin to differ old son... may apply to some.... but the majority l work the system.... get locked in ...then use the PS job as a nice little base to branch out into entrepenaurial activities ... with the nice little safety net under them if things didn't work out.....You know the types..... plod along like geriatric badgers during workin hours.... the ...voila.... come 1700.... they change into bees.... buzzing around like supercharged ferrets as they use up the power saved during the day..

You know them ..don't you???? I know you do:D

TempestSabre

Fraid I don't. I'd say about 95% of people I see are very motivated and as driven as in any private company. Guess it comes down to the attitude of the people involved.

secret_squirrel

FlutterinBantam wrote:

but the majority l work the system....

Which semi-states have you worked in to give such astounding insight?

Gurgle

FlutterinBantam wrote:

If you want to ride the waves...take the risks.... run the gauntlet... tee it up with the big boys.... private sector is the man for you

:rolleyes:
meanwhile, for the 99% of us in the real world...

TempestSabre

secret_squirrel wrote:

Which semi-states have you worked in to give such astounding insight?

Pasted on previous posts I think he just likes stirring things up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51187881&postcount=11

FlutterinBantam

Can I ask a simple question please

Why is it when I post in frank terms I'm accused of stirring things up.?

When others post in similar vein they are just expressing an honest opinion?

I have worked in semi-states and in close proximity to others....there is a culture amongst certain employees to nest in,work the system,operate at the edge of the envelope,whilst devoting the lack of effort and stress to concentrate on extra mural private businesses.

I did not say all.... maybe even majority was too strong..... but a considerable percentage operate this way.... and THAT my friend IS the real world.

TempestSabre

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Can I ask a simple question please
Why is it when I post in frank terms I'm accused of stirring things up.?....

Obviously what you consider frank is what others consider stirring. You can choose to learn from that and rephrase what you say in order to allow a resonable discussion and still get your point across. Or you can choose not to and continue creating conflict which completely negates the value of any point you are making. You either want discussion (this is a forum) or not. Your choice.

Obviously in every organisation public and private there are people who sit back and coast. I'll agree with you that its a common perception of the civil and public servants and I'll add its usually held by people who've never worked in that sector. I'll even agree with you that its a perception I would have shared before working there. Having worked in both sectors, I would say its not my experience of civil and public servants. In fact on balance I've seen more coasting in the private sector.

I still reckon it all depends on the people and the management in both private and public sectors.

FlutterinBantam

I don't like beating around the bush...a spade is a spade.

I don't like couching realities in diplomatic language so as not to offend people.

I feel that one of the biggest faults in modern Ireland is that people are downright afraid to confront what is straight in front of them!!!

Example.... Why are working class areas of Dublin amongst the most littered areas in the country.....


Because the people who live in them throw the litter on the ground ...thats why...... no other reason whatsoever.!!!!

TempestSabre

Thats rubbish. You're not calling a spade a spade Its just a meaningless sweeping generalisation, as a basis for an insult. Trying to pass it off as plain speaking is laughable. If everyone (330,000 people) in the PS sat back and did nothing, or the bare minimum, the huge range of services and systems would simply grind to a halt. Yet everything works. Stange isn't it.

FlutterinBantam

Ever heard of the 80-20 theorem?

80% of the work is done by 20% of the work force.....

Think of the industrial disputes we have had in the last year...... almost all in the Public or Semi-State sector...... An Post/iarnrod/nurses.... threats from Aer Lingus...Gardai.....

As far as I can see PS is union ridden..hamstrung by red tape and woefully slow.
Now there are some good people in there but mainly swamped in a morass of mediocraty

secret_squirrel

Yawn..

Change the record bantam - or better still provide some specifics rather than random generalisations.

TempestSabre

FlutterinBantam wrote:

.80% of the work is done by 20% of the work force.....

Maybe where you work

FlutterinBantam wrote:

....
Now there are some good people in there but mainly swamped in a morass of mediocraty

"mediocraty" indeed.

I guess the private sector is a shining example of all things good. Where companies like Bank of Ireland can have profits up 31% to €1.6bn but still plans to weaken their pension scheme. Nice.

Theres a planned taxi strike this weekend. So it happens outside the PS aswell.

BuffyBot

As far as I can see..

Well see (ooh, see what I did there!), that's the problem It's what you see. You've posted nothing to back it up mind...

FlutterinBantam

secret_squirrel wrote:

Yawn..

Change the record bantam - or better still provide some specifics rather than random generalisations.

If you wern't too busy counting yer nuts squirrell...you might have noticed that I included quite a few specifics in the previous post...


P.S... I forgot to mention the driving testers:D

homeOwner

wuggy_bear wrote:

I work for semi state organisation, its a hospital, has anyone come across the red tape invovled in getting answers to question and the length of time involved.

and also the typical civil service worker that is in the organisation and is unwilling to change their ways of work?

whats the private industry like to work in? i need advice as im thinking of moving to accenture or any other company in the private industry

Getting back to what the OP wanted advice on......

IMO, it depends on what you want from a life and how old you are and if you have a family or not.

In my experience working in both semi-state and private industry, there is no doubt that private industry has been much harder i.e. longer working hours, more weekend work, tighter deadlines, frequent fear among the staff of being let go, management worrying about clients taking their business elsewhere.....

I have found that there are slackers in both sectors, but that private industry will waste no time in getting rid of someone if it suits their bottom line. You'll be out the door if they hit a hard patch and cuts have to be made.

There are very few private sector jobs with unions (banks and some insurance comapnies are all i can think of that have some sort of union representation). There are no guaranteed payrises. If the company does well, you will be likely to get around 3-10% payrise, if it isnt you wont get any. I have heard of people not getting a pay rise since 2001.

Holidays are much better in the public sector. You'll be lucky to get 22 days in private sector, some give 24 days but I havent heard of anything higher than that.

All in all, if you want to push yourself ahead in your career, you will do it in either sector. There are politcs involved in both. Private industry may reward to better but they will also expect more and if you have a bad year, you'll be in danger of being let go.

IMO its far better to be in the public sector where you have job security and probably better quality of life due to less strict work hours, more likely greater flexibility in moving location (if you want to) and working from home, better holidays and a pension.

Believe me, when you have been working for a long time, sometimes a kick-ass career is not your top priority. Give me quality and ease of life anyday.

secret_squirrel

homeOwner wrote:

Getting back to what the OP wanted advice on......

IMO, it depends on what you want from a life and how old you are and if you have a family or not.

In my experience working in both semi-state and private industry, there is no doubt that private industry has been much harder i.e. longer working hours, more weekend work, tighter deadlines, frequent fear among the staff of being let go, management worrying about clients taking their business elsewhere.....

I have found that there are slackers in both sectors, but that private industry will waste no time in getting rid of someone if it suits their bottom line. You'll be out the door if they hit a hard patch and cuts have to be made.

There are very few private sector jobs with unions (banks and some insurance comapnies are all i can think of that have some sort of union representation). There are no guaranteed payrises. If the company does well, you will be likely to get around 3-10% payrise, if it isnt you wont get any. I have heard of people not getting a pay rise since 2001.

Holidays are much better in the public sector. You'll be lucky to get 22 days in private sector, some give 24 days but I havent heard of anything higher than that.

All in all, if you want to push yourself ahead in your career, you will do it in either sector. There are politcs involved in both. Private industry may reward to better but they will also expect more and if you have a bad year, you'll be in danger of being let go.

IMO its far better to be in the public sector where you have job security and probably better quality of life due to less strict work hours, more likely greater flexibility in moving location (if you want to) and working from home, better holidays and a pension.

Believe me, when you have been working for a long time, sometimes a kick-ass career is not your top priority. Give me quality and ease of life anyday.

Excellend post - totally agree.

FlutterinBantam

EXACTLY what I was saying all along..... in slightly less modulated and formal prose ..... Well done Homeowner

TempestSabre

Lol