A Bewildered American's questions about Law School.

Kung Fu Sage

I have a few questions about the process of getting into Irish Law school.

I am about a year out from getting my Bachelor's degree and I've decided to pursue a legal education/career. I'm not settled on whether to pursue law in America or Ireland. I like keep options open and I seek adventure and experiences. So, I'm not interested in just conforming to the predictable road of deciding/going to American law school without evaluating every option on the table.

What are requirements for admission into Trinity? Is there a standardized test? Do you have to be fluent in Gaelic in order to get into law school? I just started studying Gaelic a month ago and I doubt I'll be primed in a year. How top notch do the grades have to be? After three and a half years, I've gotten A's in every class with the exception of two B pluses and an A minus. I have about four or five classes (Math, Spanish, Economics) coming up that I expect to do poorly in though. On average, how many years do you have to put into Law School? In America, its about two years if you're a full time student.

Finally, anting up. How much is it for law school for foreign students and citizens (currently in progress for citizenship by descent)? American law schools charge you an arm, a leg, and two working kidneys.

DemonOfTheFall

I don't know what entry requirements would be like, coming from America, but if you get your citizenship sorted out it should be free...

xeduCat

First of all, it won't be free. You will be treated as a non-EU applicant. (Citizenship alone isn't enough to qualify - there are residency and work/study requirements as well). You apply to the International Student Affairs office (http://www.tcd.ie/ISA) and there are no set points/standards for application - you specify all your qualifications and attributes etc. Due by 1st February each year - i.e. 1.Feb.06 for October 06 start.

Irish is not required for entry or for doing the course. Teaching is entirely through English. There are certain requirements for Irish that need to be met as part of the qualification to practice as a barrister or solicitor in Ireland, but they're not that rigorous, and anyway have nothing to do with the university degree.

Law is a regular undergraduate course in Ireland. Although you can apply after having done a bachelor degree elsewhere, it doesn't give you any particular advantage, and virtually everyone else will be coming from secondary education or as mature (>23) students on a first degree. It does not give a licence to practice, and does not prepare you for bar exams. Practicing as a lawyer involves further study and training, which can be accessed with a law degree or certain other qualifications (e.g. a non-law degree and a law conversion course).

Current fees for non-EU students are €13,000 per year.

There is a Masters course (LLM) as well, but you need a law or a part-law degree in order to apply.

ISAW

Kung Fu Sage wrote:

I have a few questions about the process of getting into Irish Law school.

What are requirements for admission into Trinity? Is there a standardized test? Do you have to be fluent in Gaelic in order to get into law school? I just started studying Gaelic a month ago and I doubt I'll be primed in a year. How top notch do the grades have to be? After three and a half years, I've gotten A's in every class with the exception of two B pluses and an A minus. I have about four or five classes (Math, Spanish, Economics) coming up that I expect to do poorly in though. On average, how many years do you have to put into Law School? In America, its about two years if you're a full time student.

Finally, anting up. How much is it for law school for foreign students and citizens (currently in progress for citizenship by descent)? American law schools charge you an arm, a leg, and two working kidneys.

If I were you I would go to a private college in dublin and do an entrance course for either the Kings inns (if you wish to practice as a barrister) or Law society ( to practice as a solicotor) either will take at least six months to a year and require a primary degree (not necessarily in Law) and then you will have to practice for about three more years. It will cost about 2,000 to 3,000 to do it.
http://www.portobello.ie/schools/law.htm
http://www.portobello.ie/schools/fe1_prep_prog.htm


If you wish to practice in the US:
http://www.gcd.ie/index.jsp?pID=93&nID=106
they also do the New york or claifornia bar exams.
http://www.gcd.ie/index.jsp?1nID=106&2nID=116&3nID=210&nID=255&aID=303
http://www.gcd.ie/index.jsp?1nID=106&2nID=116&3nID=210&nID=255&aID=309

Why do a four year degree in Trinity?

Sisu

ISAW wrote:

If I were you I would go to a private college in dublin and do an entrance course for either the Kings inns (if you wish to practice as a barrister) [...] Why do a four year degree in Trinity?

About the Bar - the Portobello LLB that is a qualifying law degree for the King's Inns is a three year degree - as is the UCD BCL. If speed is your main concern, then the King's Inns diploma (2 years) which is available to holders of a degree in a different area is the quickest route to being eligible to sit the entrance exams for the Inns' degree course (which is a third year to be qualified as a barrister). Incidentally, I would assume that the private colleges charge overseas students more, because they can (they simply have to undercut the public universities). Speed may not be Kung Fu Sage's only concern, but if it is, UCD is as good for the Bar as a private college, and the diploma course is quicker.

Kung Fu Sage wrote:

I'm not settled on whether to pursue law in America or Ireland.

This really is crucial in making your decision. Sure, you can study law in Ireland and then prepare for and sit the New York bar exam, but why would you make life more complicated? If you decide you would like to practise in Ireland, you need to think about whether you want to be a barrister or solicitor. As others have said, there are other routes into those professions for the holders of a degree than studying for an undergrad law degree here, unless you want to do a 3/4 year academic law degree before the professional qualification.

Kung Fu Sage

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it very much! I was worried that I would have to go through a 4-year undergrad process. In terms of prestige, where does Portobello rank? What are the best law-schools out there for someone with a non-law undergrad diploma? After reading this thread I called a few schools and University of Limerick was the most helpful. Where do they rank?

Sisu wrote:

This really is crucial in making your decision. Sure, you can study law in Ireland and then prepare for and sit the New York bar exam, but why would you make life more complicated? If you decide you would like to practise in Ireland, you need to think about whether you want to be a barrister or solicitor. As others have said, there are other routes into those professions for the holders of a degree than studying for an undergrad law degree here, unless you want to do a 3/4 year academic law degree before the professional qualification.

My decision really hinges on how well I do on the LSAT. I’m a good student and I don’t want four years of hard work trying to get into a good law school to be spoiled on account of a poor showing on a wacky standardized test. Ireland’s a wonderful place and if I have an opportunity to get into a great law school, I’m willing to make my life a little harder to do so. I'm leaning toward Solicitor, but further research on my part is needed to make an informed decision.

xeduCat

LSATs aren't used in Ireland.

Portobello's reputation is laughable. Limerick is good, although quite business-focused.

Thirdfox

I did note that they came last on the list of the accepted law degrees when entering King's Inns (Trinity was first )

But if you have the right connections then it won't be a problem where you study.

I was told by a solicitor that in terms of snobbery, TCD and UCDD look after their own, others are looked down upon (with an exception of Galway?)

Didn't Portobello advertise that they had the leading leading academic in the property law section? Is that a load of waffle?

xeduCat

It's only last because of being a recent addition, not because of anything else!

Sisu

My vague and possibly entirely inaccurate impression of the ranking of law schools is:

group 1. TCD - UCD - QUB (Belfast) - UCC
group 2. UL - NUIG - DCU
group 3. Private colleges like Griffith and Portobello

If you want to be a solicitor, then you just need to do a short course run by a private college to cram enough law to pass the entrance exam. It won't add anything to your cv - that's not the object. Doing a full 3/4 year undergraduate law degree in a respected university might give you a better knowledge of law and look good to employers, but it's not necessary to train at Blackhall and it's up to you if you feel you've spent enough time and money as an undergrad already.

EdgarAllenPoo

Kung Fu Sage wrote:

I have a few questions about the process of getting into Irish Law school.


Do you have to be fluent in Gaelic in order to get into law school? I just started studying Gaelic a month ago and I doubt I'll be primed in a year.
QUOTE]

Ok I'm sorry but:D Gaelic is what cultchies play in the rain, Irish is what you're after.

The Law Society require you to pass both written and oral exams in Irish. These from what I've been told are a piece of pish(the oral is only abut five minutes long). I have a Canadian friend who passed after a week of me teaching him and I'm horrible at Irish.

You don't need a Law degree to be a barrister or solicitor just a good undergrad degree and a spare €15,000.

Thirdfox

Irish... or Gaelige

Kung Fu Sage

GDM wrote:

Ok I'm sorry but:D Gaelic is what cultchies play in the rain, Irish is what you're after.

The Law Society require you to pass both written and oral exams in Irish. These from what I've been told are a piece of pish(the oral is only abut five minutes long). I have a Canadian friend who passed after a week of me teaching him and I'm horrible at Irish.

You’ll have to excuse me on the Gaelic thing. We Americans seem to flip flop every term you guys on the Other Side use.

Concerning the language test, I called Portobello and asked about it. Just like you, the representative said that it was nothing to worry about. In fact, he said something along the lines of "it's a joke. I say this because Libyans pass it."

Thanks again guys for the help!

FreudianSlippers

Kung Fu Sage wrote:

You’ll have to excuse me on the Gaelic thing. We Americans seem to flip flop every term you guys on the Other Side use.

Concerning the language test, I called Portobello and asked about it. Just like you, the representative said that it was nothing to worry about. In fact, he said something along the lines of "it's a joke. I say this because Libyans pass it."

Thanks again guys for the help!

I'm probably too late to chime in on this discussion - but for future reference (as someone who knows) Griffith blows Portobello out of the water.
It's a billion times better. billion.

nettranny

maybe even 2 billion. or even 3 billion

sully-gormo

Not sure what youre looking for:an academic law degree or a professional qualification.
You want academic- TCD,UCD,etc.. will give you a good education, but if you want to practice as a barrister or solictor you will need a professional. Though if you want to work as something legal, a law degree might do the trick.
You want professional, ie you want to be a barrister/solictor; you have to go to king's inns/blackhall place and train there. This might be difficult, if your primary degree dosent have Law. If you want entry to either profession, you have to go through kings inns/blackhall