Never get involved in a land war in Asia or Min raise

Bandana boy

Some Full tilt advice on min raises

One cant help but compare to the classic Princess bride scene

All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

I am half inclined to start min raising all recognised good players with big bags of goo


Say you're playing in a low-stakes no-limit ring game. The blinds are $.50 and $1, and it's folded to you in middle position. You find a nice hand - pocket Tens - and bring it in for a standard raise of three times the big blind. It's folded around to a player in late position, who re-raises the minimum amount, making it $5 to go.

I've seen this sort of play repeatedly in the past few months while researching my next No-Limit Hold 'em book by playing in low-stakes games. Every time I've been faced with a minimum re-raise, I've been up against a monster - pocket Kings or Aces.

A player who opts for the small raise may think he's being crafty by getting me to put a little extra money in the pot while he holds a big hand. But this is not a profitable play. There are two major problems with the minimum raise.
I've already mentioned the first problem: My opponent has telegraphed his hand. And making good decisions is pretty easy when you know exactly what your opponent holds. The second problem is mathematical. My opponent is giving me 5 to 1 to call the additional raise. (In this example, my extra $2 will give me a chance win $10.) When I make the call, I know that I stand to win a very big pot. My implied odds - the money I stand to make if I hit my hand - more than justify the call. If my opponent started the hand with a $100 stack, I could get paid at a rate of 50 to 1.

So I call and see a flop. If there's no Ten on the board, I'm done with the hand. And if there is a Ten, I'm going to wipe my opponent out. As I said, poker is a pretty easy when you know what your opponent holds.

What's the proper play when you hold Aces and a player has raised in front of you? Find the "Bet Pot" button and click it. Put pressure on a player who you know is starting with a second-best hand. Who knows, if he's got pocket Queens or A-K, he may be willing to put his entire stack in pre-flop. If he holds something like Jacks or Tens, your big raise will minimize your opponent's implied odds.

You should be wary of minimum raises at other stages of a hand, as well. Say you raised pre-flop with A-K and one player called. You hit top pair top kicker on a K-8-4 board. You bet out the size of the pot and your opponent min-raises you. At this point, you need to be very concerned that your opponent has hit a set. You have to wonder why he'd be raising an amount that almost begs for your call.

My advice here is twofold: First is that you should all but eliminate the minimum raise from your game. In some rare circumstances when you hit a full house or quads, it might be appropriate, but that's about it. Second is that alarm bells should go off whenever you see a min raise. Your opponent probably has a big hand and you need to proceed accordingly.

ianmc38

I think the min-raise can be a very effective bluff in online cash games.

cardshark202

ianmc38 wrote:

I think the min-raise can be a very effective bluff in online cash games.

lol

5starpool

Most of these Full Tilt advice columns are very black and white and aren't that helpful really.

cooker3

Personally I play at low levels at 90% of the time I have come accross min raises, they have meant weakness.

ianmc38

cardshark202 wrote:

lol

No joke. You'd be surprised at how often people will fold to a min-raise. The school of thought is that noone minraises without a monster. The full tilt pro sums up the current idea that people have about the minraise - preflop it must be AA/KK and postflop, it must be a set.

That is exploitable as amusing as you may find it.

Edit: Most of those FT tips are useless. The funniest was Howard Lederers' "Why i leave my sunglasses and ipod at home". Lol.

Bandana boy

I like the Prof but that one was pretty useless

U do tend to get very hand/game/player specific advice and your expected to apply this to poker in general
I once called an allin on the river with Ace high and won so always call all ins on the river with ace high kind of stuff

Lafortezza

ianmc38 wrote:

I think the check-min-raise can be a very effective bluff in online cash games, and shows you to be a true master of the game

fyp

hotspur

The advice from Fulltilt pros is usually for novice players and usually accurate in my opinion. Obviously no good player would ever min raise in a cash game but the novices at the low stakes do it all the time so it is helpful advice for the newer / less good players.

ianmc38

Ok. Theoretical situation. You've AK and raise preflop. 1 caller who ahs position on you. Flop A67.

You bet the pot. Villain min-raises. What do you do now? Flat call. If so, what's your plan for the rest of the hand?

The guy from Full Tilt is correct in his assertions. 90% of the time when you're minraised preflop it's AA or KK. Similarly on the flop if you've TPTK and you're minraised, then you are going to see a set quite alot. I've seen it countless times at this stage at 1/2 and 2/4 where people are 3-betting all-in after a minraise with TPTK to find a small set waiting for them.

RoundTower

Is this the same guy who wrote the column we were discussing earlier in the week? That was all about how you should minraise when you flop top pair top kicker and a maniac overbets the pot into you, or when you flop a set on the same very dry board?

ianmc38

It's Phil Gordon:

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/proLessons.php?lesson=60

Rnger

6 seater speed stt on tribeca just now. Roughly 2000 chips each, blinds are 50/100.
UTG limps, folded around, I raise to 300 with AA on the button, BB and UTG call.
Flop comes JT3 with two clubs, UTG bets 100 and i raise to 500, he minraises to 900... what does he have?

5starpool

800 chips left. in shallow stacks minraises are less pointed.

ianmc38

Rnger wrote:

6 seater speed stt on tribeca just now. Roughly 2000 chips each, blinds are 50/100.
UTG limps, folded around, I raise to 300 with AA on the button, BB and UTG call.
Flop comes JT3 with two clubs, UTG bets 100 and i raise to 500, he minraises to 900... what does he have?

Thats a terrible example to give. He could have anything from 2 pair, to the nut flush draw to KQo.

Also stacks in that tournament are way too short for it to be used in any effective manner. Of course some will say it can never be used effectively regardless of stack sizes....

MadsL

he minraises to 900... what does he have?

you are seriously gonna fold here???