Poker snobbery

dirkey_wynne

Does poker snobbery bug any of you as much as it bugs me? It bugs me far more than a bad beat etc.

The other night I was in the Fitz. A youngish lad on my table, relatively new, made what could be called a strange decision, calling with suited cards, but not relatively good suited cards, a raise.

After the hand, which he won, a player on the table starts going on with "how could you play those cards etc, do you know what you're doing." The person asking this wasn't even involved in the hand.

The young lad seemed quite put out by this, and was blushing. I just said "that's the beauty of poker, there's no right way or wrong way to play and everyone can have their own style." That stopped the abuse from the other player, but i heard him tut tutting about it with his mates on teh break.

This kind of carry on bugs me. A player blatantly new to the game, and this lad at the table acting like a real twat in my opinion, arrogant, cocky etc.

Just wondering if that gets on anyone else nerves here?

ianmc38

It p*sses me off alot more than a bad beat.

Nothing more annoying than having the Irish equivalent of Phil ivey at the table giving free lessons on every hand and explaining what the optimal play was.

A hand from last night. One guy had AQ. Flop AAJ. Another guy goes all-in. Guy with AQ flat calls and the other guy has Jx and gets sent to the rails. Some goon then explains why he'd raise all in every single time with AQ becuase he doesn't want KT to call. He was so close to getting kicked off his high horse, but I restrained myself thankfully.

dirkey_wynne

ianmc38 wrote:

It p*sses me off alot more than a bad beat.

Nothing more annoying than having the Irish equivalent of Phil ivey at the table giving free lessons on every hand and explaining what the optimal play was.

A hand from last night. One guy had AQ. Flop AAJ. Another guy goes all-in. Guy with AQ flat calls and the other guy has Jx and gets sent to the rails. Some goon then explains why he'd raise all in every single time with AQ becuase he doesn't want KT to call. He was so close to getting kicked off his high horse, but I restrained myself thankfully.

He wouldnt' want KT to call? Genius. So, K10, on a queen outer, making a straight to his house, he wouldn't want to call? Glorious.

ollyk1

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Does poker snobbery bug any of you as much as it bugs me? It bugs me far more than a bad beat etc.

The other night I was in the Fitz. A youngish lad on my table, relatively new, made what could be called a strange decision, calling with suited cards, but not relatively good suited cards, a raise.

After the hand, which he won, a player on the table starts going on with "how could you play those cards etc, do you know what you're doing." The person asking this wasn't even involved in the hand.

The young lad seemed quite put out by this, and was blushing. I just said "that's the beauty of poker, there's no right way or wrong way to play and everyone can have their own style." That stopped the abuse from the other player, but i heard him tut tutting about it with his mates on teh break.

This kind of carry on bugs me. A player blatantly new to the game, and this lad at the table acting like a real twat in my opinion, arrogant, cocky etc.

Just wondering if that gets on anyone else nerves here?

Raise his blind mercilessly. Nuff said.

MiniMetro

The reason I stopped playing poker. Getting pot odds quoted at you left right and centre for four hours took all the fun out of the game.

sikes

when i first started playing the fitz, i had the same thing, someone telling me how badly i had played a hand and got very lucky.

usually the people that try to teach a table, have just finished reading harrington on holdem or something and feel the need to reguriate it all at the table, and rarely are any good themselves

jacQues

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Just wondering if that gets on anyone else nerves here?

Oh yes. Last time I played in the casino (cash 1/3 pot limit):

A new player (assumption) bet the pot pre-flop. His neighbour called and was all-in with his call. Two more callers. Main pot 52 sidepot 6 I believe. On the flop the same guy pots it again. The two other callers fold, so he takes the 6 euro and shows a bluff with AJ on a lowish flop. The all-in player had less so he actually won it on a high card.

After he won, another player who folded (assuming middle pair on the flop) went balistic. His attitude and voice tonation were extremely agressive when he said "Don't ever ever do that again or its gonna cost you, its gonna cost you big!!" The way he did it was overly agressive, in such a way that even though his statement was right IMHO, the method wasn't. He was basically shouting at a new player (assumtion) and threatening him. I felt bad for him. Sure explain what he did wrong if you must; but *never* like that! :mad:

So I casually said to the agressive player "Is anything he did against the rules?" He replied "You were not in the hand so shut up." I said "Buddy, I *am* playing on the same table you know.", then he went "Don't calll me buddy, you don't know me." and went on to rage towards the new player (assumption) in Irish...for about 5 minutes! My Irish is kinda bad and he talked too fast for me to make out what he said. But he kept the same agression, so we can do an educated guess. WHAT A TNUC!!

The owner of the club was looking at the tables because someone was looking to play and the two tables were full. I told him "there will be a seat free right here in 3 hands" (just before being BB myself). I was so right in my judgement. Two hands later this same agressive person limped with AK, bet on the flop where everyone folded. He showed AK, complaining it never pays off. The very next hand his neighbour did the exact same with KK (limp, bet on flop, take it down, then show). He talked into him now, saying that he was stupid to slowplay KK. This time he used a normal voice, but he went on talking at this players about his stupid play where he did the exact same the previous hand. (Also, limping once in a while to mix it up is fine to me.)

I left the next hand (would be BB after that) and made room for the waiting player...

jacQues

El Stuntman

surely this thread should be titled 'poker stupidity'?

Hawk Eye

Whatever about two experienced players having a discussion over a hand it also bugs the hell out of me when some twat picks on a newbie.
Props to OP for saying something back to the your man too theres nothing worse then complete silence after that comment.

Another one that bugs me is when theres a showdown preflop and some pokerstove mastermind comments on the percentages on every street.
I'm not talking about the usual 55-45 or 70-30 but it's some whacky numbers like 63-37.

myflipflops

Abusing a newbie just makes you a p***k. everyone was new at some point. i remember in my first live game, i attempted to fold when it was limped around to me on the big blind then ended up flopping a house! everyone at the table was helpful and nice so it was a positive start to playing poker. That kind of expereince can determine whether you come back or not.

Sinfonia

mike caro is against this "educating" of weak players for exactly that reason - he wants the weak players to remain weak...

the whole thing used to really bother me, i've learned to laugh it off in some situations...
i love it when some nob gives out to a player and is wrong...that puts me in a great mood...i used to correct them, to try and make them look stupid, which they deserved, but then i'd end up in a big argument that wasn't worth it...and a lot of people at the table wouldnt really know what we were talking about, so we just both looked like idiots.

there's a lot of ego in this game, and for some reason, no matter what level you play at (with the possible exception of your first ever game), 99% of players rank themselves VERY highly, and don't like weaker players, which to them is almost everybody, because they got "lucky". it is annoying.

really the worst seem to be people who have read one book, seen 3 episodes of world poker tour, and won a sit'n'go once, who don't adapt anything they've learned to their game, but insist on, as sikes said, regurgitating this knowledge at the table so that people will think they're great
annoying but profitable

oh OH! and when they suck out on you with a terrible play! and can't even admit it!!! "i always win with 6-8", "4-7 is an underrated hand", "J-2 is playable if you know how to handle it"!!!!!!!!

sorry, i gotta go take a time out, i'm gettin all riled up here!

Rockfish

A new player (assumption) bet the pot pre-flop. His neighbour called and was all-in with his call. Two more callers. Main pot 52 sidepot 6 I believe. On the flop the same guy pots it again. The two other callers fold, so he takes the 6 euro and shows a bluff with AJ on a lowish flop. The all-in player had less so he actually won it on a high card.
After he won, another player who folded (assuming middle pair on the flop) went balistic. His attitude and voice tonation were extremely agressive when he said "Don't ever ever do that again or its gonna cost you, its gonna cost you big!!" The way he did it was overly agressive, in such a way that even though his statement was right IMHO, the method wasn't. He was basically shouting at a new player (assumtion) and threatening him. I felt bad for him. Sure explain what he did wrong if you must; but *never* like that!

Maybe im missing something here but what did he do wrong??

5starpool

Rockfish wrote:

Maybe im missing something here but what did he do wrong??

who? The guy who berated or the guy who bet into the nearly dry sidepot?

Guy 1 clearly and idiot, guy 2 this is ok, depending what stage of the tournament this is ok. Not mad about doing it with AJ but whatever turns him on I guess......

Ste05

Rockfish wrote:

Maybe im missing something here but what did he do wrong??

nothing, assuming this was a cash game....

EDIT: obviously the above relates to the raiser, as for the other guy, well you could write about this kind of behaviour for days, basically he's costing himself and everyone else at the table $$$$

Hitman Actual

Oops, I love talking about hands at the table! If there's someone I know beside me, I always have a quiet post-mortem about interesting hands. Never give abuse though, and think it's a disgrace.

DocO

ianmc38 wrote:

It p*sses me off alot more than a bad beat.

Nothing more annoying than having the Irish equivalent of Phil ivey at the table giving free lessons on every hand and explaining what the optimal play was.
.

In all fairness Ian ive heard you do this exact thing at a table.

Last week AQ called your re-raise all in when ud KK nad he beat u, to which u questioned hw can he call with with that muck etc before storming off . . .

You also berated that northern guy when he kept making the most peculiar moves and stupid calles the week before hand.

Dont we want these fish to play like fish? I agree with Caro's theory - why educate them, unless they are a m8 or something, jus leave em to it!

Ian, Pot . . . Kettle . . . Black???

Dey were Sooted

SumGuy wrote:

there's a lot of ego in this game, and for some reason, no matter what level you play at (with the possible exception of your first ever game), 99% of players rank themselves VERY highly, and don't like weaker players, which to them is almost everybody, because they got "lucky". it is annoying.

I feel this is the main reason all this BS goes on at a table - I don't really mind people talking bout hands (sometimes) but people telling others how they should play or the likes really gets me going - other day in a STT online guy to the right of me was being very agressive and was really starting to get under my skin . he raised pre and i called with KJ s - Flop J xs xs - top pair and good flush draw so he bet , i raised which he called . turn nada - he bet again and i called again - at this stage now i know i shouldn't be in the hand but i still had chips left and I do like a challenge - prob shouldn't have been from the begining as i think he had QQ - AA but I really didn't care at this stage coz he had been wrecking ma head so much . anyhow river was a spade - he bet and I went allin which he called - I won :rolleyes: after the hand he typed "that was very brave " which i didn't bother replying to . my point is there are so many influences on your game in poker,that sometimes you may do things you know you shouldn't , coz we are only human - if the stupid side of ego was left aside in all parts of life , we would be all having a better time of it IMO..

NickyOD

Nothing dsgusts me more than someone abusing another poker player. I play with a right bunch of ****ing donkeys but they're very civil really.

ianmc38

DocO wrote:

In all fairness Ian ive heard you do this exact thing at a table.

Last week AQ called your re-raise all in when ud KK nad he beat u, to which u questioned hw can he call with with that muck etc before storming off . . .

Yeah, storming off to the cash table...

Big difference in giving out about a bad beat and giving lessons. I'll always moan when I'm outdrawn as a big favourite. Culchie saw it last week when i got crippled by a 2-outer on the river. I don't try explaining to people that what they did was wrong.

I've never explained to anyone the merits of a hand they played, or how they could have played it better. If you lose a hand by slow-playing or bluffing, miss out on value with big hands by overbetting, dont extract any chips with the nuts, then thats your fault. I don't feel the urge to be the captain of the ship and tell someone the faults of their actions. Thats for them to figure out. The only time i'll ever comment on a hand is when I think someone has played it nicely and then i'll say well played.

If I get a bad beat then I'll throw evils and gripe, as will most. Thats the nature of the beast.

Now stop trying to wind me up for Thursday and do some study.

EWheelChair

Poker is full of elitests, people who think the game should only be played by their book of invisible rules.

"How could you call that raise with pocket 4's?!"

jtsuited

EWheelChair wrote:

Poker is full of elitists, people who think the game should only be played by their book of invisible rules.

as is life.
But just like life, poker is full of very nice intelligent, and witty people also.

btw i changed your spelling of elitist to the right one in the quote

5starpool

jtsuited wrote:

btw i changed your spelling of elitist to the right one in the quote

classic one Jeff

Raising with the 8 5 usually gets a bit of stick (as it often hits the straight:D )
but usually if someone gets 'no it all' on me I'll go for their stack , or tell them to go fu** themself. The latter is more enjoyable

5starpool

Deleted User wrote:

I'll go for their stack

You'll go for their stack? Surely winning chips not stealing them is the order of the day. Or will you tell them "I'll put you all in"?

Well whether it be the right or wrong way to go about it, as ollie mentioned i'll raise their big blind every time, and i'll reraise them if i think their weak, nothing stupid now but you get my point.

5starpool

Deleted User wrote:

Well whether it be the right or wrong way to go about it, as ollie mentioned i'll raise their big blind every time, and i'll reraise them if i think their weak, nothing stupid now but you get my point.

OK, I think you missed the 'humour' in my post. I should enusre I am better at this type of thing in the future before I attempt it. Apologies to both yourself and the world of comedy.

ecksor

NickyOD wrote:

Nothing dsgusts me more than someone abusing another poker player. I play with a right bunch of ****ing donkeys but they're very civil really.

I thought you posted on here that some site remove your chat abilities last year for abusing a player?

DapperGent

I think abuse only counts if it's to someone's face. In blogs or online or whatever it actually marks you out as being pretty cool.

BigDragon

ecksor wrote:

I thought you posted on here that some site remove your chat abilities last year for abusing a player?

Too many people don't realise that 'You FUKTARD' is a term of endearment.

Bandana boy

I have on occasion Berated a player after a questionable decision in an effort to induce some action
A few rules though
1 never use bad language
2 If they dont respond dont start hassling them
3 Always use sarcasm rather than out and out insult somebody
4 Dont berate a player for decisions in a pot that doesnt effect you
5 dont pick on the obvious newbie

A WP comment or nice catch is always good to start and if they start to react maybe a "I would never have the courage to call of my entire stack with a gutshot draw ,nice hand "
Idiot!!!
Not you me i should have known that you would hit it was obvious

DocO

ianmc38 wrote:

Big difference in giving out about a bad beat and giving lessons. .

Is there? you are still making the newbie feel very uncomfortable about their move/bad call - so much so that he/she will question his own play and learn from it. Complaining to somebody about how did they make a ridiculous call etc is worse than explaining were they went wrong IMHO. Its those who can take bad beats with a smile that really are an example to the rest .

ianmc38 wrote:

Now stop trying to wind me up for Thursday and do some study.

LOL
Last exam tomoro, so hopefully sobered up in time for thur!

Gluck

ianmc38

DocO wrote:

Its those who can take bad beats with a smile that really are an example to the rest .

LOL
Last exam tomoro, so hopefully sobered up in time for thur!

Gluck

That's a work in progress! In fairness, that was the worst i've ever reacted at a poker table and was after having Aces cracked twice in the same tourney, followed by the cowboys, that just sent me on major tilt until the next morning (no exaggeration)

Good luck with the last exam n ill chat to Thursday. Thinking of heading into the new scalps game on Wednesday as well.

5starpool

ianmc38 wrote:

Thinking of heading into the new scalps game on Wednesday as well.

where this?

ianmc38

it's in the sporting emporium. They've changed the format of most of the tourneys there. Now Wednesday is a €40+€10+€5 scalps game. Should be good.

5starpool

Is there a new schedule posted? I presume the scalp is the +10 and the reg is the +5?

ianmc38

They handed out the sheet with the new schedule on Sunday night. Scalp is 10 and reg 5 yeah. New formats look way better now as well. Its been a while since i played the scalps in the fitz so looking forward to the game now tomorrow.

5starpool

be sure to let us know how the new format went. I will be at the Fitz end of month tomorrow.

sunzz

How could you call that raise with pocket 4's?!"

THEY WERE SUITED. :rolleyes: